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RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/10/2006 5:36:17 AM

MisPandora

Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline

I'm curious then, Karbon. What does being a submissive mean to you then? Are you there to be a canvas for a Mistress to "do what she wants to you"? I'm a bit confused to how you submit......when you don't care to do anything for the other person.

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to KarbonCopy)

Post #: 41

RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/10/2006 5:38:51 AM

MisPandora

Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KarbonCopy

My feelings towards the one I submit to, is very similar to the Knight kneeling for his King/Queen. A loyalty. Of course there is more to it, but thats definantly a great start.

A knight is in service to his King and Queen and kingdom with his sword and his life......

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to KarbonCopy)

Post #: 42

RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/10/2006 5:40:31 AM

MisPandora

Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline

My compliments on an exemplary post.

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to behindmirrors)

Post #: 43

RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/10/2006 5:46:08 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KarbonCopy
...That being said, I have this problem.
Everywhere I look I see submissive/slaves talking about how much they love to serve, to serve makes them feel whole. To do nothing but make their Dom/me happy.
I dont relate to this...

why is how other people conduct themselves in their relationships or find fulfillment a problem for you?

quote:

...i don't want to be a servant. i have a mind, i question things and i could never be on my knees in front of someone pretending they're a god or something. i can't. i have a backbone...Orig: sweetnsensual

perhaps you are confused. this slave is a servant. she has a mind, questions and a backbone. this slave's service does not require her to "pretend" anyone is a god.

quote:

However, I will join you both at the submissive alter and light yet a third candle, in my prayer that people stop equating submission with mindless, spineless, and weakness...Orig: ownedgirlie

AMEN!!! this slave is lighting one with you!!

quote:

I feel like the odd man out in this thread but here it goes anyway...Orig:twicehappy

you are not alone!!! this slave jumps at the opportunity to be of service to Master...it matters not if it is polishing the brass pedals of His piano, barking like a puppy at his command or brainstorming for ideas for a party...and still this slave doesn't get why all that makes KarbonCopy verklempt.

quote:

...And I'm praying for the day when people know themselves fairly well before they choose a label that best fits, rather than finding a label they think makes them sound good and then adapting the defintition of the term to fit them...Orig:Archer

this slave fervently joins Archer in His prayer.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 9/10/2006 5:48:39 AM >

(in reply to KarbonCopy)

Post #: 44

RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/10/2006 6:52:55 AM

Steelriven

Posts: 300
Joined: 12/26/2005
Status: offline

Hmm, interesting thread. Can I highjack any sub/slave that submits blindly? My apartment really needs to be cleaned, and I hate cleaning!

I'm a submissive, you can say it's in my bones. It's who I am, simple as that. I don't serve for the sake of serving. Then again I am not a service sub. But sitting at Sirs feet for example is a very dominating position to me. Am I serving by submitting to him? I think the word is a bit broad. Or it's just that I'm trying to think and it's the morning, and why I'm forceing myself to is behond me hehe.

_____________________________

steelriven who's just a lil_twisted

-Don't asume, instead ask.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 45

RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/10/2006 7:05:41 AM

mstrjx

Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steelriven

Then again I am not a service sub. But sitting at Sirs feet for example is a very dominating position to me. Am I serving by submitting to him? I think the word is a bit broad.

To me, service goes hand-in-hand with obedience, which I don't recall being used in this thread (even by myself, shame on me).

You serve your Dom(me)/Master/Mistress in whatever way is requested of you, or if known, expected of you. It doesn't have to be sexual, it doesn't have to be 'housekeeping', it doesn't have to be anything in particular.

But in any way you are desired to be 'in service', you should definitely approach it with an appropriate attitude. That your actions are for your dominant partner.

It got horribly misconstrued earlier that to serve blindly means that you have no backbone. Um, no. If you are clear in your own motives and understand yourself, your trust should be able to carry you through to be able to serve in whatever fashion is expected, regardless of the unpleasantness of it. This 'personal independance' allows you to be self-gratified in having served well. You should not require, although it is appreciated, praise.

So to back to my example of me, who is not submissive but in fact dominant, if I were someone's sub/slave, all I would require is trust, and I'm good to go. I could, internally through my own strength, handle the rest. I'm not saying that this 'model' is the epitome of what a sub/slave should strive for, but I'm certain that most doms/owners could do far worse.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to Steelriven)

Post #: 46

RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/10/2006 7:08:44 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

There are certainly many searvants, slaves, and submissives who choose their role out of "enlightend self interest", as opposed to some selfless act.

And I'm praying for the day when people know themselves fairly well before they choose a label that best fits, rather than finding a label they think makes them sound good and then adapting the defintition of the term to fit them.

I would have to ask some questions here, are submissives supposed to be saints or people that enjoy giving control to another? I have enlightened self interest as an organism on planet earth. I have interest in food, clothing, career satisfaction, my vanilla family in my life, and even in my ego... being honest here, if a dominant mowed down my enlightened self interest I would not stick around that long.

I do not know any selfless people personally, and I am not a kinky Mother Theresa..smiles.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 47

RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/10/2006 7:08:55 AM

sarasmilesss

Posts: 4
Joined: 9/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

There are certainly many searvants, slaves, and submissives who choose their role out of "enlightend self interest", as opposed to some selfless act.

And I'm praying for the day when people know themselves fairly well before they choose a label that best fits, rather than finding a label they think makes them sound good and then adapting the defintition of the term to fit them.

Thank You Archer, Sir, i was trying to find away to put that into words and as always You did so eloquently.

Why is this Sir... why do so many feel the need to identify and label themselves a paticular label then critize the direct meaning of that label? If one doesn't like servitude why call yourself a slave? Why is slave glorified to such a level and if its not glorified then why are so many taking on a title that the very meaning doesn't even come close to who they are?

i have seen so many posts where "labels" are bad things but i am beginning to wonder if people found where they fit and affixed the APPROPRIATE label there would be alot less blurring of lines... at least in public forums. i know i run the risk of hearing "who dictates what correct is in a label" but there is no mistaking the definition of "slave" nor "servant."

*joins y'all at the alter to light candles* i am a slave and far from spineless or mindless... sometimes i wish i were... i might not see the "raised eyebrow" as much.

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 48

RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/10/2006 7:10:33 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

KarbonCopy called himself a submissive, not a slave

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to sarasmilesss)

Post #: 49

RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/10/2006 7:14:37 AM

alwayshis1

Posts: 27
Joined: 7/1/2006
Status: offline

i am far from being spineless, and i dont serve randomly. perhaps the reason you cant see yourself kneeling before someone, and standing tall while you do it, is because you havent met the right man yet that just 'makes' you fall before him. few dominants consider themselves god or expect you to treat them as such, they are just men after all. perhaps one day you will sing a different song when you meet that man that you do fall to the ground over

(in reply to sweetnsensual)

Post #: 50

RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/10/2006 8:35:09 AM

KarbonCopy

Posts: 779
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MisPandora

I'm curious then, Karbon. What does being a submissive mean to you then? Are you there to be a canvas for a Mistress to "do what she wants to you"? I'm a bit confused to how you submit......when you don't care to do anything for the other person.

Ther's definantly a miscommunication here, and I'll admit its probably my fault. In person I have a much better time explaining things because I can quickly catch my mistakes. I kinda talk through emotion, like the point is there, but i just have to open my mouth and let that other side of my brain take over.

This conceptiont hat I dont care to do anything for anyone should definantly be straightened out. I consider myself a good person, and I've helped countless people in my short time on this planet, and have no intentions on really stopping.

I do, do things for my partner, as she does me. Relationships go both ways, and like any half of the equation I do many things for her. I mean geeze someone has to open the pickle jars right?
I dont really place my submission in question because I know what I am and so does my partner, and I think thats really all that matters. We've been together for almost 4 years now, and I'm sure if I didnt do absolutely anything for her in that time, she'da turfed me a long time ago.

Now with many of the great posts here I've learned a thing or two, hense the reason for posting it. I've learned that service goes beyond just doing things for people.
There is more to the story than that. I will admit I had a fairly narrow view of service, mainly deamonizing it with the things that make me unhappy, namely Domestic service ;)
I suppose I got a little wrapped up in what I kept seeing around the forums and in other communities. The image of the domestic servant.
I agree that it sounds a little silly to allow myself to get washed over like that, because normally I dont, but every so often, I start to question if I have what it takes, (personal issue I know).
I wanted to see how many others out there had the same feelings on the subject, and to generally get some feedback from the community.

_____________________________

I am KarbonCopy's signature

(in reply to MisPandora)

Post #: 51

RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/10/2006 10:20:04 AM

Archer

Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

There are certainly many searvants, slaves, and submissives who choose their role out of "enlightend self interest", as opposed to some selfless act.

And I'm praying for the day when people know themselves fairly well before they choose a label that best fits, rather than finding a label they think makes them sound good and then adapting the defintition of the term to fit them.

I would have to ask some questions here, are submissives supposed to be saints or people that enjoy giving control to another? I have enlightened self interest as an organism on planet earth. I have interest in food, clothing, career satisfaction, my vanilla family in my life, and even in my ego... being honest here, if a dominant mowed down my enlightened self interest I would not stick around that long.

I do not know any selfless people personally, and I am not a kinky Mother Theresa..smiles.

No Submissives are not supposed to be saints, nor did I infer they were. I was pointing out that rather than taking a shallow view of a s-type's motivation for submitting that on a deeper examination, one would most often find that they operate out of enlightened self interest. I was not making fun or being sarcastic about it, enlightened self interest is a perfectly valid motivation for both S-types and D-types. Both are seeking fulfillment and they each find a method of getting what they need.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 52

RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/10/2006 10:24:23 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

I totally misunderstood you! I thought you were saying that if a submissive was self interested they were not really submissive... my bad

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 53

RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/10/2006 10:30:48 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KarbonCopy

Ther's definantly a miscommunication here, .

I thought so , and that was why I asked you questions...smiles.

quote:

This conceptiont hat I dont care to do anything for anyone should definantly be straightened out. I consider myself a good person, and I've helped countless people in my short time on this planet, and have no intentions on really stopping.

You do not come across that way to me.

quote:

I do, do things for my partner, as she does me. Relationships go both ways, and like any half of the equation I do many things for her. I mean geeze someone has to open the pickle jars right?

If that is your only negotiated duty, I suppose

quote:

I dont really place my submission in question because I know what I am and so does my partner, and I think thats really all that matters. We've been together for almost 4 years now, and I'm sure if I didnt do absolutely anything for her in that time, she'da turfed me a long time ago.

You are a lucky submissive guy to find someone for that long

quote:

Now with many of the great posts here I've learned a thing or two, hense the reason for posting it. I've learned that service goes beyond just doing things for people.
There is more to the story than that. I will admit I had a fairly narrow view of service, mainly deamonizing it with the things that make me unhappy, namely Domestic service ;)
I suppose I got a little wrapped up in what I kept seeing around the forums and in other communities. The image of the domestic servant.
I agree that it sounds a little silly to allow myself to get washed over like that, because normally I dont, but every so often, I start to question if I have what it takes, (personal issue I know).
I wanted to see how many others out there had the same feelings on the subject, and to generally get some feedback from the community.

I guess if it makes them happy to be this, well that is all that matters

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to KarbonCopy)

Post #: 54

RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/10/2006 10:35:11 AM

Archer

Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

sarasmiles, The best answer I have come up with as to why people are so quick to label themselves is the desire to find their place in the scheme of things quickly, the discomfort of not knowing where you fit in tends to motivate them to find their label quickly. The later arguments in my opinion come from the fact that they then are invested emotionally in their new found label. When the label no longer seems to fit they fight tooth and nail to keep the label, and in some cases will rationalize beyond all reason thus ending up changing the definition rather than finding a new word that fits who they are.

(in reply to sarasmilesss)

Post #: 55

RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/10/2006 11:03:42 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

sarasmiles, The best answer I have come up with as to why people are so quick to label themselves is the desire to find their place in the scheme of things quickly, the discomfort of not knowing where you fit in tends to motivate them to find their label quickly. The later arguments in my opinion come from the fact that they then are invested emotionally in their new found label. When the label no longer seems to fit they fight tooth and nail to keep the label, and in some cases will rationalize beyond all reason thus ending up changing the definition rather than finding a new word that fits who they are.

very true in my opinion.... sadly so as well.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 56

RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/10/2006 12:01:27 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

However, I will join you both at the submissive alter and light yet a third candle, in my prayer that people stop equating submission with mindless, spineless, and weakness...Orig: ownedgirlie

AMEN!!! this slave is lighting one with you!!

Come on over, beth - we're working on a bonfire over here!

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 57

RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/10/2006 2:11:15 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

However, I will join you both at the submissive alter and light yet a third candle, in my prayer that people stop equating submission with mindless, spineless, and weakness...Orig: ownedgirlie

AMEN!!! this slave is lighting one with you!!

Come on over, beth - we're working on a bonfire over here!

I'll bring the lighter fluid! ;)

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 58

RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/10/2006 2:12:08 PM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sublizzie

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I pray for the day when people stop equating submission to service and service to submission.

While I am both submissive and service-oriented, I tend to agree with you. I also pray for the day when people stop equating submission with masochism.

I pray for the day when people stop trying to label my relationship based on their views.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to sublizzie)

Post #: 59

RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/10/2006 4:41:55 PM

twicehappy

Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

I feel like the odd man out in this thread but here it goes anyway...Orig:twicehappy

you are not alone!!! this slave jumps at the opportunity to be of service to Master...it matters not if it is polishing the brass pedals of His piano, barking like a puppy at his command or brainstorming for ideas for a party...and still this slave doesn't get why all that makes KarbonCopy verklempt.

Big grins, somehow i knew if you posted beth you would be like me, it is simply a joy to please and see them happy and content, it makes us happy and content. Often i will say thank you for letting me work on the car, or garage or drywall with or for them. It is important and lets me know i am trusted and valued, then i am happy with myself.

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 60

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