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RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/10/2006 7:27:05 PM   
Caitriona


Posts: 327
Joined: 8/28/2006
Status: offline 		This thread has been a fascinating read.  I'm a submissive who happens to be a housewife.  I have never really equated my "housework" as part of what I do in regards to my role as a submissive in our relationship.  It's simply something that needs to be done.  I expect that he would do the same if the roles were reversed. 

However, it does please me knowing that when he comes home he can take off his uniform and not have to worry about having a list of things that need to be done.  Granted, there are days when I ask him to help me with things or he works on chores (yardwork).  But I try to get things taken care of so that we can spend time together when he's home.  It's as much for me as it is for him, so to speak.

I don't identify as service oriented, at least not in the "domestic duties" kind of way.  This is the only relationship where I have happily taken on that role.  I believe that I serve my Dom in so many ways - emotionally, sexually, ect.  It's all part of the greater role in the relationship...I can't pin it down to one little thing that makes it that way.


_____________________________

Property of Shadowraven
Serving alongside ciarra

(in reply to KarbonCopy)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/11/2006 12:07:54 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		Submissive does not equal service oriented, nor does it mean you automatically get hot when given orders. It just means you give over control in some or all areas and for part or all of the time.

Some people are never happier than when scrubbing bathrooms for someone else. Some get off when given contradictory orders and they have to zip from here to there and back again. Some get pleasure taking pain for someone else even though they get no gratification from the pain itself.

Myself, laundry has to be done but I don't enjoy it. Same for cooking and cleaning. I wouldn't fit with someone who gave orders he knew ahead of time I would have enormous difficulty fulfilling, I'd see that as setting me up to fail and that's not a place I like. What he wants of me is emotional transparency, if I give him this then I'm submitting to him.

What's important here is that you know what you do and don't want so as to not get into a relationship with someone you have basic noncompatibility issues.

(in reply to MisPandora)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/11/2006 2:23:50 PM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		Anyone familiar with the book "The Five Languages of Love" ?  (Gary Chapman)  i know this is long, but please bear with me, it related directly to Karbons issue, really! 

The authors premise is we each learn to speak and respond to different "languages" or communication styles, so while a partner and i may be madly in love, we might miss the signals of our mates, and they might miss ours, because we're not communicating our love in a way the other Hears it.

Hubbys way of speaking love is "Acts of Service". 
"What do you mean I don't love you?  i JUST took out the garbage!  Who filled the car with gas?  I worked 50 hours this week so you could get your nails done..."
He also hears "Acts of Service" as proof:
"It's clear you don't love me anymore, you nevermake that special mannicotti for me.  AND the bathroom is a mess."

"Words of Affirmation" is mine, and Masters
(i think this is why HusDom and Master have no conflict of jealousy.  i can gush about Master being such and so, but HusDom can feel completely secure, because i wash HIS dirty laundry.)

Verbal compliments, especially in front of others is a biggee for stroking me.  When Hubby or Master says something to friends like "See!  That's what I love about her.."  i am on a cloud for six days.  Conversely, a public hint of me lacking in anything will rip my base out.
If one listens for “Words of Affirmation,” verbal stroking, validating, and encouragement are key.  Some of the things we see in practice on the boards here..  When these tend to come from posters who display a pattern of talking this way to others, it's clear what their language is:
  • reinforcing a difficult decision;
  • calling attention to progress made on a current project;
  • acknowledging a person’s unique perspective on an important topic.

    For some, it's Quality Time:
    " i can just sit at his feet during the ball game" works for some, but for most who need quality time, that causes a huge conflict.  He says "What??  We just spent 4 hours watching football!"  and she's still saying "We never talk.."

    Next is "Receiving Gifts" small tokens of affection that show the thought process of selecting them. It's not about the value of the gift, it's the mental energy put into giving them, ANd the "memento quality" small gifts or cards have.
    Some adore Hallmark. Those cards and letters and wee notes pasted to the bathroom mirror speak volumes to some! 

    But look at how the languages cross. a tokens and gifts person leaves a lipstick note on the bathroom mirror.  Her Acts of Service oriented mate might be irritated that now the mirror has to be cleaned to make things right again.  BUt He might be thrilled if the mirror is cleaned before He sees it again, such an act of service!  A words of affirmation mate might react "Sure, but that's not what you said at the party the other night..."  to Him, if a compliment can't be shared with others, it's not considered genuine. 

    Finally is Physical Touch. sexual, non-sexual, casual, comforting, each is a dialect.
    "It is important to remember than this love language is different for everyone. What type of touch makes you feel secure is not necessarily what will make your partner happy. It is important to learn each other’s dialects. That way you can make the most of your hugging, kissing, and other physical contacts."
    =================================
    The reason i think this is germain to this discussion is.. it's pretty clear the Dominants that hear and talk in "acts of service" will surely discount the submissive or slave who doesn't present with that side facing first.. 

    subs who speak "acts of service" to a Dominant that talks "words of affirmation" might be serving, but they're spinning wheels as far as making that Dom feel like the pinwheel of Their life.  In the example of Karbon, it's likely he's speaking exactly what his Domme hears.. and good bet neither of them is talking "acts of service" as a primary communication style. so it works for them, while being completely unintelligable for some of us.

    The best W/we can hope for is to keep remembering that what feeds one cannot even be digested properly by another, so let's keep the menu pretty wide open.  And insert the universal translator module when needed.

    (in reply to Celeste43)
    • Profile   Post #: 63
    RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/11/2006 2:35:35 PM   
    justheather


    Posts: 1532
    Joined: 10/4/2005
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Mavis

    Anyone familiar with the book "The Five Languages of Love" ?  (Gary Chapman)


    Yes, Mavis, my Daddy asked me to read it when we first met!  I am so glad you brought this book up here. I think that it should be required reading for all couples! Truly, it opened my eyes to the fact that the way I express and interpret others' expressions of love has a lot to do with whether my relationship fails or succeeds. If someone is telling me he loves me in a language I don't recognize, then I don't get the message. And likewise, understanding what speaks to your partner can help one to better communicate love and appreciation.

    For me, I don't necessarily think that I somehow "live to serve others" so much as I love my dom and my primary love languages include Acts of Service. When I clean the bathroom, I am saying "I love you." That does not mean I want to clean bathrooms for everyone any more than being submissive to my partner means I want to submit to everyone.

    And Im not sure what makes the OP think that for anyone else working a long day (12.5 hours for me, mostly on my feet) and coming home and being tired is not the norm.

    _____________________________

    I want the scissors to be sharp
    And the table perfectly level
    When you cut me out of my life
    And paste me in that book you always carry.
    -Billy Collins

    (in reply to Mavis)
    Profile   Post #: 64
    RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/11/2006 2:57:34 PM   
    Mavis


    Posts: 828
    Joined: 2/8/2004
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: justheather

    Yes, Mavis, my Daddy asked me to read it when we first met!  I am so glad you brought this book up here. I think that it should be required reading for all couples!


    Oh, and more than just couples!  i had an unmentionable that was just miserable in her life.  she got everything the others got, but she never felt loved. Nothing i tried worked, i told her how proud i was of her school work, Dad and i would frame her A's..  i acknowledged every good decision she made, i admired her choices in friends and activities, i appreciated her wisdom in little things, she still felt unloved or unlovable.

    til i read this book, and started bringing home 89 cent hair ribbons when i was at the store.. or a pretty new pen or pencil.. and those little credit card jokes with slogans on them..or i'd mail her a little hallmark card.  and in 3 months, she did a complete turn around.  It really was unbelievable, and i was horrified to think she was that materialistic. but truly, it was that she realised i knew her taste and had been thinking about her when i was away at the store.  that did something to her heart that no words could ever penetrate.  go figure.

    i should have caught on!   she had a box that held --  of all things, "the first crayon sherry and I shared in 2nd grade"..  mementos were not just "things" to her, they were the benchmarks of her life. Little pieces of the people she loved, and i had been discounting her little lovies as junk.  :: smack mom :::

    (in reply to justheather)
    Profile   Post #: 65
    RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/11/2006 3:30:13 PM   
    KatyLied


    Posts: 13029
    Joined: 2/24/2005
    From: Pennsylvania
    Status: offline
    quote:

    It really was unbelievable, and i was horrified to think she was that materialistic.


    Another way to look at this, and I know you have -- is that she needs concrete things that she can put on a shelf (or in a box) and take down and hold when she needs some love.  I think it's nice that you discovered this about her and that you are able to give her what she needs.

    This parenting stuff ain't always easy.


    _____________________________

    “If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
    - Albert Einstein

    (in reply to Mavis)
    Profile   Post #: 66
    RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/11/2006 4:27:39 PM   
    justheather


    Posts: 1532
    Joined: 10/4/2005
    Status: offline     		Katy, I am the same way. I save almost everything. Someone taking the time to stop and pick up a rock that is shaped like a heart and giving it to me means as much to me as anything that could come in a Tiffany's box...it isnt materialism so much as attaching meaning to things and being able to see and touch the things. It is a tangible reminder that someone was thinking about me.

    I remember when my grandmother died, I went through her things right away looking for very small keepsakes that would remind me of her. Im sure someone may have seen my behavior and thought I was being greedy and not respectful. But, I was not looking for things of material value. I was looking for things that reminded me of her. A handkerchief, a tin box, an empty perfume bottle.

    For people who attach memories to objects, receiving gifts, even tokens, is an important and powerful thing.


    _____________________________

    I want the scissors to be sharp
    And the table perfectly level
    When you cut me out of my life
    And paste me in that book you always carry.
    -Billy Collins

    (in reply to KatyLied)
    Profile   Post #: 67
    RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/11/2006 5:38:39 PM   
    BeingChewsie


    Posts: 1633
    Joined: 10/27/2005
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: agirl

    If serving is *doing things for another* then I am served FAR more than I ever *serve*. My Master is far more significant in MY life than I am in his....my life is threaded with his influence and control but he is self sufficient. His life would run perfectly well whether I was in it or not......mine, however, would not.

    agirl



    You just described our dymanic to a T. He is a fully independent, single male and lives his life soley on his terms, if I were not in his life it would be the same it as it is now..mine would be radically different, everything in my life is touched, managed, and influenced by him.

    (in reply to agirl)
    Profile   Post #: 68
    RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/11/2006 5:45:40 PM   
    BeingChewsie


    Posts: 1633
    Joined: 10/27/2005
    Status: offline     		Hi Karbon,

    I'm owned and submissive but have zero to very slight service orientation. I'm used as a servant but that is task he sets me too. I would not *choose* it on my own. For my owner and myself this is about power(authority, control and influence) and using that power. It is being powerless to stop him, powerless to change his course, or dictate anything to him that does it for me. I don't enjoy service, but I do enjoy the fact that it is a tangible manifestation of his power over me. I get extreme pleasure from *anything* that illustrates in tangible and palpable ways that I'm owned and not his *peer*...anything that allows me to *see* myself as he sees me....anything that emphasizes my "lowering of self before other".

    (in reply to KarbonCopy)
    Profile   Post #: 69
    RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/11/2006 9:21:53 PM   
    Missokyst


    Posts: 6041
    Joined: 9/9/2006
    Status: offline     		I am not a service sub type either.  I do enjoy pleasing a mate because seeing him happy does make me happy.  But, I don't crave service as some sort of fulfillment for my psyche.

    I totally agree with your "I amwhat I am" statement and wish more people were comfy in their own space without having to comform to someone elses label.
    Kyst

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: addisonclarkgirl
    i've come to realize though, that i am who i am.  i don't have to use anyone else's lables to define who i am. 

    What i have concluded about myself, and i am happy with, is that i am submissive, just not A submissive.  i am a very giving person.  i like to please others, whether it be a Dom, my friends, or my family. 

    (in reply to addisonclarkgirl)
    Profile   Post #: 70
    RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/14/2006 1:54:25 PM   
    karensgirl


    Posts: 7
    Joined: 9/13/2006
    Status: offline     		Ok I am new to the forum and reading many things as a project to try to resolve my own internal issues.  Reading this thread and the replies to it causes me to come to only one conclusion.  Karbon, correct me if you see it differently.  There are as many ways of "serving" as there are people involved in service work and there are as many desires as dom/mes?  What I am reading is that you are questioning your relationship with your self because if you were in a relationship more of your time would be taken up with the dance between the two of you and working this out than in analyzing.  If I am incorrect here, how does your Dominant feel about how you feel about these things?  Are you saying these are your limits?  If these are your limits, not to be of service to another, then good it is wonderful that you know your inner desires.  Just be sure to state these desires honestly when talking with a Dom/me.  This will help bypass a lot of confusion on both parts when making the decisions involved with this lifestyle.  Open, honest communication is highly sought after. You may find that you prefer to go to parties and scene rather than live in a 24/7 situation.  You may find a person who wants exactly as you want 24/7.  The identification of submissive does not equal mindless.  A submissive must be highly intelligent in order to be highly prized.  I think you are giving a lot of thought to this which will help you make decisions regarding how to live your life.  In all the posts i have read the one thing that consistently strikes me is how different each relationship is in its dance yet how beautifully the right combination glides across the stage of life. 

    (in reply to TemptingNviceSub)
    Profile   Post #: 71
    RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/14/2006 9:07:59 PM   
    cloudboy


    Posts: 7306
    Joined: 12/14/2005
    Status: offline     		Veronicaofml used to explain this so well. (The service side, that is.)

    It also seems to me that most knowledgable/sensible Dommes know many excellent submissives don't aspire to be unpaid butlers and maids as an end in-and-of-itself, and that the less sensible Dommes have LTR and turnover issues.

    I was a service sub to a Domme for a while, and her main issue was turnover. In such a relationship, there is a D/S component, but there is also an Employer-employee one as well. Without the intimate connection, the employees burnout on the job.

    < Message edited by cloudboy -- 9/14/2006 9:08:59 PM >

    (in reply to KarbonCopy)
    Profile   Post #: 72
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