RE: Oh what shlock

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CrappyDom -> RE: Oh what shlock (9/11/2006 9:11:22 AM)
quote: But no, you would rather make and/or defend tasteless posts on the anniversary of the greatest single tragedy in the history of the United States. Way to go. So you are saying that the 50,000 brave souls who died at Gettysburg or those who died at Pearl Harbor werent a tragedy? So you are happy they died? See, pathetic handwringing is just that, pathetic. To me, the most sacred duty we have is to ensure that people do not die in vain, that their death has meaning and that we learn from it. You want to bury your head in the sand be my guest, others of us would rather get our hands dirty so your children and the rest of the worlds childrens can remain clean and safe.

Rule -> RE: Oh what shlock (9/11/2006 9:55:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin All I know is it takes a real low life to start controversy on the anniversary of such a tragic day. ... Frankly I find it disgusting. So do not visit this thread, or block his posts. In any case, do not post yourself in this thread. If you want him to know what you think about him, then send him a private message on the other side. quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin Thousands of people died. Probably about 2500, but I have not counted the bodies. Neither have you. quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin Hundreds of people risked their lives to save whoever they could. So? quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin Of all the threads that could be posted today... It says a lot about the people that agree with it and even revel in it's wake. They are heroes risking their life. quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin you can not think of anything else to talk about apart from Republican conspiracy theories and "sensationalist" TV shows that just so happen to not align with your point of view. You have already demonstrated in the other thread "Should I of lied" that you do not have an open mind and that anyone who does not agree with your opinion by definition is in the wrong. Cannot you think of anything else to talk about? The repetition gets boring and discussing anything with somebody with a mind as closed as yours is unproductive. quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin I can not believe that supposedly mature adults can not demonstrate a little bit more respect and discernment. They obviously care a lot about what happened and those who died in it, or they would not have bothered. Their persistent digging demonstrates both respect and discernment. quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin It does not matter what caused it. ... The only thing that matters today is that people died in the name of Allah and 40 virgins. Do I see a contradiction in your statements? Yes I do. And now for the interrogation: how do you know that "people died in the name of Allah and 40 virgins"? The only ones that know are the ones that participated in the attacks. Did you participate? Were you one of the purported highjackers? If so, then pray tell when you parachuted out of which plane and why nobody recalls seeing you do so. If not, you are simply replaying your indoctrination program. quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin You should be thankful that so many people risked their lives that day for others. No. Those concerned may be justifiably thankful, but I am not. Why should I? It is great that they did, but why should anybody who has no connection whatsoever to the people who were saved by those risking their lives be thankful? In any case most of the people who worked in the two towers walked out of them under their own power. So how many were actually saved by "those risking their lives"? There may have been some, but at the moment I do not recall a single case. quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin You should be thankful that the Government is making a move to defend you. No, I am not. As a matter of fact it turns my stomach that so many soldiers die - and that hundreds or thousands of times as many innocent citizens and perhaps less innocent enemy soldiers - die in order to conquer those oil rich islamic countries. quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin You should be thankful to the men and women of the armed forces that are risking their lives to keep your country safe. No, I will not be thankful. First of all they are not keeping my country safe, and second of all if that is their purpose they should be in my country instead of killing tens of thousands innocent civilians in countries that have never threatened mine.

marieToo -> RE: Oh what shlock (9/11/2006 10:13:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cravespleasure In general, I wish that there was some kind of buzzer or electroshock therapy applied to an individual everytime they used an ad hominem argument. Around here, thats exactly what they want. When you try to debate an issue rather than attacking the person who has the opposing beliefs , they will come after you and goad you until you attack them personally. Watch carefully, it happens consistantly

CrappyDom -> RE: Oh what shlock (9/11/2006 10:17:09 AM)
marie, And when you do, the moderators are right there to smack your hand for being mean to the poor little guys who got their feelings hurt. It must suck to go through life being unarmed during battles of wit. From now on, I am just going to post "ad hominym attack" as a response. There ARE some intelligent people on the right who post here, Level is one of them. He makes me think, he challenges me to examine both my facts and my beliefs and I welcome his responses. Others, are well, unarmed...

Kedicat -> RE: Oh what shlock (9/11/2006 12:53:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen As a Brit, could I ask who funded/produced this film? As sure as eggs is eggs, whoever did will have inserted some partisan bias into it - thats usually the deal after all? Where it gets dangerous though is where it attempts to deliberately, even if only subtly, change viewers' opinions through the presentation of evidence, which had it not been presented in a certain way, might have effected no change or a change to the contrary in those opinions. Television and movies are extremely powerful instruments for effecting such changes, because they give us the impression that we witnessed what happened, and so what we saw must have been how it was. E http://www.bushwatch.com/p:// A lot of info on the funding and makers is about two articles down. http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Fake_news Some examples of propoganda instances now getting used.

peterK50 -> RE: Oh what shlock (9/11/2006 1:47:58 PM)
I did not watch the "Doccudrama", but I did see the conspiracy of the phantom offensive pass interferrence call that cost the Giants their chance against the Colts. Bush was trounced in New York in the election of 2000 so I'll make the asumption that those that died in the 9/11 tragedy were a representative sample of those voters. That being said for either the right or left to use the victims for their own purposes does not honor their memory

MistressTexas -> RE: Oh what shlock (9/11/2006 3:45:12 PM)
I think Rule puts it wonderfully. Yes it is a tragedy. Yes many lives were risked and lost. But I also agree with CD who (forgive me for bastardizing here) reminds us all not to be taken in by the slick media images being bandied around. For some reason, I keep thinking of the quote "history is written by the winners." I think the US government is quite desperate to be able to write this part of history, so as not to come of as blundering fools. To do that, I believe they will try to boost moral in any way they can. Yes, imo, that does include riding the coattails of a tragedy like 9/11. I'm sure if you look back at Pearl Harbour, there was much the same type of stuff, it just wasn't as widespread and recognized, considering the comparitive lack of technology.

WyrdRich -> RE: Oh what shlock (9/11/2006 3:59:58 PM)
Hey now Ken, not all of us in CA are small, hate-filled jackasses. As for the docu-drama, I watched The Simpson's season premiere and went to bed.

KenDckey -> RE: Oh what shlock (9/11/2006 5:56:29 PM)
I know that not all in Cali are that way, Just the vast masses.

KenDckey -> RE: Oh what shlock (9/11/2006 6:17:15 PM)
Crappy; you are right It wasn't Albright that warned the Pakistanis It was the Vice Chair of the Joint Chiefs (9/11 commission report pdf version page 134). Why did Clinton keep reducing Intel budgets until Gingrich infused a ton of money in 1996? The 9/11 commission sorta glossed over that.

KenDckey -> RE: Oh what shlock (9/11/2006 6:23:34 PM)
Crappy Why did Trent stop action after Clinton was warned on Dec 4, 1998, that UBL was going to do a hijacking in the US? (9/11 Commission Reort PDF version pages 145-148)

CrappyDom -> RE: Oh what shlock (9/11/2006 7:09:26 PM)
Kendky, First off I don't have Clinton on a pedestal, he was a petty crook from a backward state who couldn't keep his dick in his pants. However, he had his good points too and certainly was a talented politician. Second, thanks for the cool links because I have no idea what you are talking about so I am going to look it up and respond. Before I do there is one logic problem I have with all of this. If Osama was such a massive and clear threat during Clinton, why was nothing done under Bush? Why do you guys give him a free ride on this? Bush actually gutted almost every counter terror budget prior to 9/11, Rice demoted whats his name, I mean they did less than zero about all this prior to 9/11 but you guys rail on Clinton. Nobody was yelling "wag the dog" on Bush, nobody would have said he was doing things to distract us, all Republican criticismof Clinton whenever he tried to deal with Bin Laudin.

CrappyDom -> RE: Oh what shlock (9/11/2006 7:16:33 PM)
Ken, Tell you what, you seem to want to have a genuine debate, so do me a favor and post a link to the things you are claiming and I will do the same. Cutting intelligence budgets is meaningless, that could be a good thing or a bad thing. Was he cutting fat, or programs no longer needed due to the cold war or was he cutting the budget for operations and the black side? Remember terrorism just wasn't a threat anyone was all that worried about in the early years of Clinton's administration, don't forget someone wrote a famous book about "the end of history" as we knew it.

KenDckey -> RE: Oh what shlock (9/11/2006 7:34:54 PM)
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf be prepared for a long night of rreading. shows up as 585 pages. As to why Bush didn't do anything. I don't know. I am still reading the report. You just got me started reading it all over again. Been a while since I first started reading it.

WyrdRich -> RE: Oh what shlock (9/11/2006 7:48:09 PM)
I'll save you some time Ken. President Bush was fixated on Saddam as the primary threat before he ever took the oath. Add to that the long delay before the really good classified briefings of the new President could get started and it's a recipe for mistakes. The lesson that needs to be learned from all of this is that placing a President, of any party, under the added stress of constant partisan attack hurts the country as a whole. And yet, if the Dems regain the House in November, the shit will happen all over again.

StrongButKind -> RE: Oh what shlock (9/11/2006 8:20:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Where it gets dangerous though is where it attempts to deliberately, even if only subtly, change viewers' opinions through the presentation of evidence, which had it not been presented in a certain way, might have effected no change or a change to the contrary in those opinions. I would expand this to include such bad context or presentation even it does not do that deliberately -- it would be nice if people responsible for movies like this felt a responsibility to guard against that -- deliberate or inadvertent. This is not a specific commentary on the ABC piece -- I have not seen it. It is a general opinion.

LadyJulieAnn -> RE: Oh what shlock (9/11/2006 9:25:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin All I know is it takes a real low life to start controversy on the anniversary of such a tragic day. ... Frankly I find it disgusting. So do not visit this thread, or block his posts. In any case, do not post yourself in this thread. If you want him to know what you think about him, then send him a private message on the other side. quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin Thousands of people died. Probably about 2500, but I have not counted the bodies. Neither have you. quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin Hundreds of people risked their lives to save whoever they could. So? quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin Of all the threads that could be posted today... It says a lot about the people that agree with it and even revel in it's wake. They are heroes risking their life. quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin you can not think of anything else to talk about apart from Republican conspiracy theories and "sensationalist" TV shows that just so happen to not align with your point of view. You have already demonstrated in the other thread "Should I of lied" that you do not have an open mind and that anyone who does not agree with your opinion by definition is in the wrong. Cannot you think of anything else to talk about? The repetition gets boring and discussing anything with somebody with a mind as closed as yours is unproductive. quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin I can not believe that supposedly mature adults can not demonstrate a little bit more respect and discernment. They obviously care a lot about what happened and those who died in it, or they would not have bothered. Their persistent digging demonstrates both respect and discernment. quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin It does not matter what caused it. ... The only thing that matters today is that people died in the name of Allah and 40 virgins. Do I see a contradiction in your statements? Yes I do. And now for the interrogation: how do you know that "people died in the name of Allah and 40 virgins"? The only ones that know are the ones that participated in the attacks. Did you participate? Were you one of the purported highjackers? If so, then pray tell when you parachuted out of which plane and why nobody recalls seeing you do so. If not, you are simply replaying your indoctrination program. quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin You should be thankful that so many people risked their lives that day for others. No. Those concerned may be justifiably thankful, but I am not. Why should I? It is great that they did, but why should anybody who has no connection whatsoever to the people who were saved by those risking their lives be thankful? In any case most of the people who worked in the two towers walked out of them under their own power. So how many were actually saved by "those risking their lives"? There may have been some, but at the moment I do not recall a single case. quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin You should be thankful that the Government is making a move to defend you. No, I am not. As a matter of fact it turns my stomach that so many soldiers die - and that hundreds or thousands of times as many innocent citizens and perhaps less innocent enemy soldiers - die in order to conquer those oil rich islamic countries. quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin You should be thankful to the men and women of the armed forces that are risking their lives to keep your country safe. No, I will not be thankful. First of all they are not keeping my country safe, and second of all if that is their purpose they should be in my country instead of killing tens of thousands innocent civilians in countries that have never threatened mine. You have a lot to say for someone who does not reside in our country.

StrongButKind -> RE: Oh what shlock (9/11/2006 9:48:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyJulieAnn You have a lot to say for someone who does not reside in our country. You have dark hair for someone with ten fingers.

KenDckey -> RE: Oh what shlock (9/12/2006 1:39:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: StrongButKind quote: ORIGINAL: LadyJulieAnn You have a lot to say for someone who does not reside in our country. You have dark hair for someone with ten fingers. I was sitting there counting her fingers and it looked to me that she might be misssing her pinky on hr right hand. but she does have a nice collection of toys

peterK50 -> RE: Oh what shlock (9/12/2006 5:59:10 AM)
Please don't anyone get too hung up on the 9/11 Commission report. It is a political diccument not a gospel. Who was called, what questions were asked, what was include in the report was all done politically. Bush & Cheney were questioned in private & not under oath. Debating it is a waste of time.

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