RE: Islam Religion of Peace???

RE: Islam Religion of Peace??? (Full Version)

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meatcleaver -> RE: Islam Religion of Peace??? (12/4/2006 6:41:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ExpSUBmale Islam preaches death and subjecation and intoleration. Islam is the greatest threat to civilization in the world today. It is a cult of evil. Have you listened to Christian fundies lately? Oh You are one! Now there is a surprise.

ExpSUBmale -> RE: Islam Religion of Peace??? (12/4/2006 6:48:53 AM)
meatcleaver what a load of crap!!!

ExpSUBmale -> RE: Islam Religion of Peace??? (12/4/2006 6:53:57 AM)
We are in a war against an evil way of life. And we are losing because of people like meatcleaver. Open your eyes people. Islam wants to destroy how we live, think, pray. We will defeat them or leave our children a legacy of hate and violence. It's time we stopped dwelling on events of hundreds of years ago and look to what is happening today. They are killing us and we "understand". But if we strike back we are condemmed. The pope quotes a letter that calls islam violent, and how do they protest this "unfair" charecterization? By going on a violent rampage!

ExpSUBmale -> RE: Islam Religion of Peace??? (12/4/2006 6:55:21 AM)
Oh, by the way. I'm not christian.

LordODiscipline -> RE: Islam Religion of Peace??? (12/4/2006 7:27:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave Maybe the Arabic "middle classes" should speak out against what many Muslim terrorists do because it is WRONG, regardless of whether or not certain groups listen to what they might say. . *Simple and eloquently put.* *My point exactly, thank you.* *The actions of these terrorists is in direct conflict to their stated purpose making a hypocracy of Islam and the teachings of the Queran.* *Yes, 'it is what has happened throughout history' - but, it does not make it any more right... or, justifiable.* *Most of the terrorism is against their brothers under Allah - not against the west.* *Yes - there are reasons why they cannot speak out or would not - but, speaking out is a moral imperitive and should be a consideration for a 'fruitful and righteous' life as required by the Queran.* ~J

LordODiscipline -> RE: Islam Religion of Peace??? (12/4/2006 7:35:09 AM)
*You are speaking from a narrow scope of view and it is not an understanding of Islam - but, a hate of people who are Muslim.* *How many people do you know personally who are Muslim?* *How many people do you call friends who are Muslims?* *How many Muslims do you know personally that would express such violence towards people they do not know?* *The ever curious -* ~J quote: ORIGINAL: ExpSUBmale Islam preaches death and subjecation and intoleration. Islam is the greatest threat to civilization in the world today. It is a cult of evil.

philosophy -> RE: Islam Religion of Peace??? (12/4/2006 8:27:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ExpSUBmale Oh, by the way. I'm not christian. ....given that Christ preached the turning of the cheek, this is demonstrably true.

Sinergy -> RE: Islam Religion of Peace??? (12/4/2006 12:40:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ExpSUBmale Oh, by the way. I'm not christian. Whatever your beliefs may be, ExpSUBmale, meatcleaver's point about Christian fundamentalists is accurate. The best example I can think of was when Pat Robertson said, in essence, that we should bomb the godless heathens who follow Bin Laden into the stone age. This came a month or so after Bin Laden stated, in essence, that Al Qaeda was engaged in a war against evil heathens who should be car-bombed or airplane bombed into the stone age. There really is very little difference between Christian or Muslim fanatics, apart from the fact that they each want the other one to be in their cross-hairs. The issue, in my mind, is less about the religion, and more about the fundamentalist fanatical yahoos that are trying to glorify their god in a pool of other people's blood. Sinergy

TheGlassGuitar -> RE: Islam Religion of Peace??? (12/4/2006 7:08:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ExpSUBmale Oh, by the way. I'm not christian. No, you're a psychopath.

TheGlassGuitar -> RE: Islam Religion of Peace??? (12/4/2006 7:14:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline *You are speaking from a narrow scope of view and it is not an understanding of Islam - but, a hate of people who are Muslim.* *How many people do you know personally who are Muslim?* *How many people do you call friends who are Muslims?* *How many Muslims do you know personally that would express such violence towards people they do not know?* *The ever curious -* ~J I'm a historian; I read Arabic. I've read the Quran and most of the fundamental Islamic texts in the original. I have had many acquaintances who are Muslim. I've discussed Islam with many Islamic scholars. The vast majority of Muslims are just like the vast majority of the believers of all the major religions; they simply want to raise their families in peace and instill a sense of morals in them. The reason terrorism seems to be so devastating is not a result of a large number of terrorists, but rather the destructive potential of modern technology that allows one person to kill many. Trying to discuss Islam with ExpSUBmale would be like trying to discuss the Jews with Joseph Goebbels.

WyrdRich -> RE: Islam Religion of Peace??? (12/4/2006 7:21:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy There really is very little difference between Christian or Muslim fanatics, Sinergy Take it all the way Sinergy, there is very little difference between fanatics of any belief system. The Islamic ones just happen to be coming from a culture where violence, and tolerance of violence, are accepted (at least as I percieve it).

TheGlassGuitar -> RE: Islam Religion of Peace??? (12/4/2006 7:42:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WyrdRich quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy There really is very little difference between Christian or Muslim fanatics, Sinergy Take it all the way Sinergy, there is very little difference between fanatics of any belief system. The Islamic ones just happen to be coming from a culture where violence, and tolerance of violence, are accepted (at least as I percieve it). You fail to recall the IRA, who set off many bombs in London just two decades ago. The culture that produced them was the Irish, hardly a historically violent people. The Basque terrorists in Spain are another example. Radical ideas and terrorism can spring out of any culture. To believe that it is simply a by-product of a culture's innate nature is a mistake. Germany produced Beethoven; it also produced Hitler.

Sinergy -> RE: Islam Religion of Peace??? (12/4/2006 9:22:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WyrdRich quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy There really is very little difference between Christian or Muslim fanatics, Sinergy Take it all the way Sinergy, there is very little difference between fanatics of any belief system. The Islamic ones just happen to be coming from a culture where violence, and tolerance of violence, are accepted (at least as I percieve it). Thank you, WyrdRich, for taking what I said as a reason to further denigrate muslims. You are entirely incorrect. I was simply pointing out that Christians and Muslims and Buddhists have all said the same thing: kill the infidel. and I agree with none of them because I believe life should be cherished and nurtured. But that is just me. I dont find much difference between muslims who want to bomb people into the stone age and christians who wnat to bomb people into the stone age. Same cause, different varsity letter jacket. Sinergy

seeksfemslave -> RE: Islam Religion of Peace??? (12/5/2006 2:08:54 AM)
Synergy/GlassGuitar have produced finely balanced points that in the past Christian "enthusiasts" have perpetrated atrocities. The point is Synergy/GG that at the moment it is Islamic "enthusiasts" who are prepared to murder and slaughter innocent civilian populations to further their aims. Meatcleaver and others can tell us that some of the AIMS/RESPONSES may be legitimate, I say that their MEANS are totally wrong and it will be too late if we do nothing and allow further massive terrorist acts such as occured in New York, London and Madrid.

meatcleaver -> RE: Islam Religion of Peace??? (12/5/2006 2:48:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave Synergy/GlassGuitar have produced finely balanced points that in the past Christian "enthusiasts" have perpetrated atrocities. The point is Synergy/GG that at the moment it is Islamic "enthusiasts" who are prepared to murder and slaughter innocent civilian populations to further their aims. Meatcleaver and others can tell us that some of the AIMS/RESPONSES may be legitimate, I say that their MEANS are totally wrong and it will be too late if we do nothing and allow further massive terrorist acts such as occured in New York, London and Madrid. Pray what is the purpose of the invasion of Iraq? The aims of the USA and Britain aren't even legitimate which we all know is about securing oil so don't tell me muslims are more violent than westerners when the west legitimately or illegitimately kill countless thousands more muslims than muslims kill westerners.

Sinergy -> RE: Islam Religion of Peace??? (12/5/2006 2:27:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave Synergy/GlassGuitar have produced finely balanced points that in the past Christian "enthusiasts" have perpetrated atrocities. The point is Synergy/GG that at the moment it is Islamic "enthusiasts" who are prepared to murder and slaughter innocent civilian populations to further their aims. Meatcleaver and others can tell us that some of the AIMS/RESPONSES may be legitimate, I say that their MEANS are totally wrong and it will be too late if we do nothing and allow further massive terrorist acts such as occured in New York, London and Madrid. Let me see if I understand your point, seeksfemslave. It is ok when Christians / Westerners kill muslims in their own countries because you think they are evil and promote violence. But they are bad because they kill Christians / Westerners in their own country because they think we are both evil and actively promote violence. Seems a bit myopic on your part, but if that works for you I say go with it. Sinergy

LordODiscipline -> RE: Islam Religion of Peace??? (12/5/2006 3:07:29 PM)
**Just to make a point that is being missed (in some cases on purpose - in others because there seems to be some need to balance peoples in places where it is not possible).* There are Muslim fundamentalists who perpetrate terror in the world. There are Christian fundamentalists who state that they would like to perpetrate violence against mulsims because of the violence that is being perpetrated by them. I do not see "Christian Fundamentalists" using car bombs and other means of terrorism. Am I missing something? - or are people stating that the governments of the US, Britain, Japan, South Korea, Poland, Saudi Arabia, etc are performing acts of violence in the name of Christianity? Certainly there is violence in the backgrounds and historys of all religions - That has been discussed successfuylly. But, as an occurrence in these times - are we stating that this is the case? Personally - I find the comparrison specious. If you wanted to state that the people who call themselves "Muslim" and are considered "fundamentallists" are acutally after a piece of the power pie in the Middle East - - and,- the nations involved in the invasion and occupation of Iraq are also seeking influence there through "other diplomatic means" (Note: A paraphrase for an analogy of "war"), I would agree... But I do not see someone as mamby pamby and as unbalanced as "Pat Robertson" (or, <insert a name here>) or their followers sitting in their garages and making igniters for shipment to Falujah.... These people are sidelined idiots and political hacks spewing vindictives for their "masses" to 'eat up' -and- are inconsequential to the entire affair as it is involved "over there". The IRA has nothing to do with this situation and are not perpetrating crimes against humanity in the Middle East (or, in Britain currently from what I gather from the press) Let's not confuse the politics of religion in the US with what is happening in the Middle east... And, please - let's not try to make some specious case about the US government and the religious affiliations that the people involved in it claim for themselves... again - they are appealing to some constituents masses who like that sort of thing in 'their mix'. And, it is the pablum of the left rather than a quantifiable and provable reality of the times.** ~J

meatcleaver -> RE: Islam Religion of Peace??? (12/5/2006 3:33:58 PM)
The west doesn't have to use car bombs, it has F16 fighter jets, Abram Tanks, Black Hawke helicopters etc. etc. The west was killing people in the middleeast for decades before 9/11, Madrid, the London bombings. It really doesn't matter what badge people decide to wear, whether religious or national affilliation, they are just outward manifestations of a deep rooted problem and that has been for decades western imperialism and the exploitation of other people's natural resources and the undermining of legitimate governments to get at them. Do you seriously believe that because violence is carried out by fanatics under a national flag it is any less violent to the victims than violence carried out by religious fanatics?

LordODiscipline -> RE: Islam Religion of Peace??? (12/5/2006 3:44:52 PM)
*Once again - the rhetoric of inspidly poor political etchings...* *"...imperialism (insert "yadah, yadah, yadah" here) ...oppression (insert snoring here) ....decades of (insert No-Doz here)"* If you are going to state that these people are not doing this in the name of Islam - but doing it for political and financial gain (power) I agree with you that they are on parity with the westren governments who are doing the same... But, Pat Robertson and his ilk are not gathering suicide bombers together to strike against the "Islamic oppressors of the East" (although it makes for an amusing image that he might actually "DO" something - rather than spim people up with his own brand of canned political speech). *Please try to understand what I am saying before spewing your own canned statements (there is an oxymoronic statement).* ~J quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver The west doesn't have to use car bombs, it has F16 fighter jets, Abram Tanks, Black Hawke helicopters etc. etc. The west was killing people in the middleeast for decades before 9/11, Madrid, the London bombings. It really doesn't matter what badge people decide to wear, whether religious or national affilliation, they are just outward manifestations of a deep rooted problem and that has been for decades western imperialism and the exploitation of other people's natural resources and the undermining of legitimate governments to get at them. Do you seriously believe that because violence is carried out by fanatics under a national flag it is any less violent to the victims than violence carried out by religious fanatics?

meatcleaver -> RE: Islam Religion of Peace??? (12/5/2006 4:03:10 PM)
It is moronic to carry on splitting hairs. There is Islamic terrorists, for the most part the west created them. The Shah of Iran was a western place man, he stifled all voices apart from a religious voice, thinking he could control that so all desenting voices gravitated to Islam, hence you get an Islamic revolution against the US place man and not a communist revolution or whatever. The fact that people are identifying with a religion in their fight, merely makes the religion a convenient label, just like for decades after the war communism was a convenient label. This is where the US got it wrong in Vietnam, they believed it was an ideological war against communism, when many countries recognized it as a war for national liberation, which was the reason the then British Prime Minister Harold Wilson refused to send British troops to Vietnam. Pat Buchannon doesn't have to worry himself about car bombs, he is not trying to kick an enemy out of his country nor is a war by proxy being fought against the occupiers of his country by its neighbours.

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