quote:

I have no idea what you all are speaking about, there is no such thing as fake ads,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar
amayos can you ever put anything in plain english?

quote:

ORIGINAL: raiken
Now all we have to do is agree on a clear definition of what "truth" is, and means to each of us.

quote:

ORIGINAL: raiken

What is one's perceived reality may also contain one's perceived truth. What is truth to me, may be a farse to someone else. What i declare to be reality for me, may be fantasy to someone else.

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

quote:

ORIGINAL: raiken

What is one's perceived reality may also contain one's perceived truth. What is truth to me, may be a farse to someone else. What i declare to be reality for me, may be fantasy to someone else.

Fair enough, though I still contend you are speaking of preference, and not truth.

Our Universe is nothing but laws of reality. The internal combustion engine is a system that relies upon the truth of physics. Without observing these truths, the engine will fail to work. The same can be said of our biology.

quote:

ORIGINAL: raiken

Ah...level fairness abounds...but the "engine" and the "fuel" (truth) of the mind are still being discovered.

quote:

ORIGINAL: raiken
When combining human biology, biochemistry, and physiology with individual perceptions and truths... or... "preferences" (preferred truths? grin) that may lead to (newly real-eyes-ed) substantial truths, the gestalt changes as vision and awareness change. Thus truth is fluid for each individual. While there are universal laws, universal truths, the other side of the quantum leap is all about perceived truth, according to current perspective. When the paradigm shifts, so will truth. Just my opinion

quote:

ORIGINAL: peekaboopet

When is it real?

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

Precisely, which is why I often feel getting to actual truth is a journey through a maze of illusory mirrors, formed from assumptions and beliefs, perspectives and theories. Science, in simple terms, is the process of testing those assumptions and theories until one arrives at a conclusive, provable answer.

In the greater academic terms of scientifically proven universal principle, i agree.  But personal truth is also a journey of epiphanys and awakenings.  An individual's ability to perceive, based upon their "choice" to "believe" in what they perceive, puts a spin on this type of truth.  Truth (speaking of a personal nature) then becomes a composite of one's unique perspectives and beliefs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: raiken
When combining human biology, biochemistry, and physiology with individual perceptions and truths... or... "preferences" (preferred truths? grin) that may lead to (newly real-eyes-ed) substantial truths, the gestalt changes as vision and awareness change. Thus truth is fluid for each individual. While there are universal laws, universal truths, the other side of the quantum leap is all about perceived truth, according to current perspective. When the paradigm shifts, so will truth. Just my opinion

Again, I distill this ultimately as perception and belief. Truth may appear fluid, but it is not.

amayos, if you are only speaking of universal principles, i agree.  If you are speaking about personal truth being constantly discovered from growth and awareness, then as one grows, perceives, and chooses to believe, then truth is fluid, for it is always subjective to change.  What was truth for me ten years ago, is not truth for me now.  Personal truths are indeed, built upon personal perceptions and beliefs.
 
Whether an individual chooses to apply universal principle and logic as part of their "personal" truth, is segway to another topic! *smile

Truth: We will all die.

Universal principle applies in the above statement.  Personal perceived truth (power of belief in action) for some, is that we never die, we just change form.  Truth for those folks would be:  Only the body dies.

Belief: After death, Jesus (the true savior) will be there to accept us into His Kingdom, so long as we abide by His laws.

To those who choose this as their personal belief, this indeed becomes their personal truth.  Why? Because they choose to make it so.  Just ask some of them! *grin  Some will even try to apply universal principle to substantiate it, incorporate it, and apply it to the universal collective as a universal truth.  *smile

edited because i have to get better at this "quote" stuff! *grins

< Message edited by raiken -- 9/13/2006 9:59:20 AM >

(in reply to amayos)

quote:

ORIGINAL: raiken
To those who choose this as their personal belief, this indeed becomes their personal truth. Why? Because they choose to make it so. Just ask some of them! *grin Some will even try to apply universal principle to substantiate it, incorporate it, and apply it to the universal collective as a universal truth.

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

And yes, personal truth is a nice turn of phrase. Perhaps the intangible greater sum of the human mind and its collective thoughts is the only refuge from universal truth there is, but even so, it is ultimately subject to the laws of our world. This is a final and harsh lesson learned by some, who, deluded by their personal truths, died from hitting the bread truck of reality, head-on, so to speak.

quote:

ORIGINAL: raiken

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

And yes, personal truth is a nice turn of phrase. Perhaps the intangible greater sum of the human mind and its collective thoughts is the only refuge from universal truth there is, but even so, it is ultimately subject to the laws of our world. This is a final and harsh lesson learned by some, who, deluded by their personal truths, died from hitting the bread truck of reality, head-on, so to speak.

Thought is always a refuge...thus fantasy is born. i agree that living in delusion is akin to spiritual death by proxy. Good convo amayos! *smile