RE: Why do people do this?

RE: Why do people do this? (Full Version)

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catize -> RE: Why do people do this? (9/15/2006 3:35:49 AM)
quote: I think this is more in line with how someone (an unowned someone in particular who is seeking an Owner) who orients as a slave might present him/herself at a munch or other lifestyle event. Yes, we do observe and take note. Like Santa's proverbial list, a dominant finds out who's naughty or nice? I don't believe in Santa anymore, nor do I care how anyone who identifies as a dominant perceives my behavior, unless they are the person I have agreed to submit to. To presume authority, to expect deference, based solely on the fact one's orientation is dominant is unrealistic at best. It seems to me that obsequious acts from anyone who is not your submissive should be viewed askance and greatly suspect.

PhoenixLM -> RE: Why do people do this? (9/15/2006 9:00:18 AM)
So what you are saying is that if you choose to be flogged your a submissive, if you choose to flog your a dominant? I'm a submissive, not a slave or a switch, I have occassionaly topped (very rare) I suggest to you that switch is a play or scene term as are bottom and top. I know submissives and slaves that prefer to top in a scene. I know dominants that occassionaly bottom. I think you are confusing bottoming, topping and switching, with a personality trait. Dominant or submissive is a personality characteristic, not an activity, and not indicitive of which side of the flogger they desire to be on. Within the BDSM lifestyle there are many levels a person may chose for themself none better or worse than another. If you are just intrest in being flogged or in flogging (insert kink of choice) then you might just be a person who tops, bottoms or switchs. If you know yourself well enough to know your own innate personality characteristics then you will reconise you have characteristics of both dominance and submission but one will outweight the other. quote: ORIGINAL: GddssBella When folks forget reality and actually believe this alternative lifestyle is the measure by which everyone lives? They need some down time and to re-evaluate their mental stability. I think you might go back and reread the post, your talking bottoms, tops, shes talking of another critter altogether. You might also take advantage and read the website Ds Haven http:www.dshaven.com it might help you to expand your own horizons.

juliaoceania -> RE: Why do people do this? (9/15/2006 10:07:23 AM)
I do not think she needs to reread the post, although I think you might benefit from such.

amayos -> RE: Why do people do this? (9/15/2006 11:41:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phoenixandnika I have seen submissives / slaves given assignments (ie essays, writing, a time to be online, rt chores, ect) by a dom/me that they have just meet or are simpy corresponding with. Often times they feel obligated to do these things. I am one that beleives that unless I am YOURS I am under obligation to cow tow or kiss your feet or any other part of your body. If your a dom/me that beleives that submissive/slaves should do everything they can to please you simply because of your labels. Why do you think that way? If your a submissive/slave that jumps through those hoops, does those essays, ect. for someone who is not YOUR dom/me. Why do you do it? I truly would like to understand the reasons behind these behaviors and ways of thinking. I will often have a prospective slave express to me what she feels slavery is and what it entails before I engage in closer dialog. Experience has shown that a considerable amount of wasted time can be avoided with a few exchanges of in-depth detail about intention and opinion on the matters of submission and dominance. When I instruct a new female in this way, it is not an act of dominance, but an invitation to pursue meaningful communication. It may feel like an "assignment," but it is in actuality a failsafe put in place for her protection and the better management of my time. I am one of "those types" who insist a girl adhere to etiquette, even (and especially) in the opening query. I prefer she address me as "Sir" in a general show of respect. If this is done, I will in turn show respect. Labels or not, I feel it's good to assume the best in one you meet until they prove otherwise. One can be cautious but still respectful and willing to learn at the same time. Coyness, cynicism, paranoia and an overall "you've got to prove yourself" attitude from a female won't get her far with me.

GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Why do people do this? (9/15/2006 12:06:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: catize quote: I think this is more in line with how someone (an unowned someone in particular who is seeking an Owner) who orients as a slave might present him/herself at a munch or other lifestyle event. Yes, we do observe and take note. Like Santa's proverbial list, a dominant finds out who's naughty or nice? I don't believe in Santa anymore, nor do I care how anyone who identifies as a dominant perceives my behavior, unless they are the person I have agreed to submit to. To presume authority, to expect deference, based solely on the fact one's orientation is dominant is unrealistic at best. It seems to me that obsequious acts from anyone who is not your submissive should be viewed askance and greatly suspect. Sorry if you misunderstand. There is difference between exercising inappropriate authority (being a bossy bitch) and interacting in a polite and classy way. I do not presume authority, but I do expect a cetain amount of deference. When I receive emails that say "Hey, I really like your profile and I am available right now on cam, Id XXXX@XXX", that tells me that the submissive did not bother to read My profile (or comprehend it) and that s/he is not the submissive for Me. I think to Myself "Howmuch can they like it, since it is obvious that any of My requests are completley ignored. This also translates for Me into "Can not serve Me as claimed, since they are instantly dismissive of of My parameters." By the same token if I am at My munch (or another's or a lifestyle event) and I notice certain submissives unshaven, needing a shower and dressed in a pair of dirty jeans and a t-shirt with an inappropriate message on it, I also know that this one is not for Me. I am always polite, I shake hands, I smile, I converse. But this does not mean I am not observing. There is a demanor that pleases Me. This demeanor will also tell Me whether or not there is something possible upon which to build something more than a casual acquaintance. In the end, most boys (and girls) who contact Me, are vying for My specific attention. If they want it, then they need to exhibit the behaviors that I clearly indicate would interest Me. If they don't exhibit this type of personality, especially if the attitude is "I don't have to have manners right now, because she is not in charge of me (yet)", then I am not going to be interested. I have often been in the company of one who is argumentative to the point of obnoxiousness. Sometimes it is almost as if the submissive is trying to prove that s/he doesn't need to engage in appropriate behavior just because it proves a point that they are not owned, therefore they can be rude, or lazy or just hanging around to see if they can get a quickie . I think we are coming at this from two different angles. I have, unfortunately met many submissives/slaves, or read their comments on mesasage boards such as this one, and that attitude comes through very clearly. If one is trying to prove that s/he wants to be in a M/s (sorry, but I am clearly a M/s Domina) relationship with Me, then it only makes sense that I would want to see that natural personality and a little bit of extra deference. Else, how will I ever know if this is someone who could be pleasing to Me? I am not expecting or asking for obesquiousness. I am not asking for or expecting ass kissing and kow-towing. I am not asking for anyone to kneel and kiss My feet, or address Me as Goddess or keep eyes downcast. I am asking for someone who claims an orientation of submissive or slave in this lifestyle to show Me that personality trait. A little deference goes a long way. By the same token, regardless of where I am, I am not going to demand anyone change their personality or habits or interaction because they claim to be slave or submissive. I do not own them, therefore it makes no difference to Me. It does not stop Me, however, from observing the behaviors and mentally noting that this is not a person who would ever interest Me for a M/s relationship. So if and when they approach Me at a later time, ( and this has happened more than once!), they have already burned their bridges. I often wonder if many who whine and complain that they can't find anyone think about this and realize that. I s'pose we will just have to agree to disagree.

GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Why do people do this? (9/15/2006 12:18:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: amayos I will often have a prospective slave express to me what she feels slavery is and what it entails before I engage in closer dialog. Experience has shown that a considerable amount of wasted time can be avoided with a few exchanges of in-depth detail about intention and opinion on the matters of submission and dominance. When I instruct a new female in this way, it is not an act of dominance, but an invitation to pursue meaningful communication. It may feel like an "assignment," but it is in actuality a failsafe put in place for her protection and the better management of my time. I am one of "those types" who insist a girl adhere to etiquette, even (and especially) in the opening query. I prefer she address me as "Sir" in a general show of respect. If this is done, I will in turn show respect. Labels or not, I feel it's good to assume the best in one you meet until they prove otherwise. One can be cautious but still respectful and willing to learn at the same time. Coyness, cynicism, paranoia and an overall "you've got to prove yourself" attitude from a female won't get her far with me. Exactly. Thank you, Amayos, for putting it so well.

amayos -> RE: Why do people do this? (9/15/2006 12:19:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold A little deference goes a long way. Gold, The above is only a snippet, but in fact your entire response summed it up quite well.

marieToo -> RE: Why do people do this? (9/15/2006 2:01:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: amayos quote: ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold A little deference goes a long way. Gold, The above is only a snippet, but in fact your entire response summed it up quite well. I dont really disagree with either one of you here, but that "proove yourself" thing rolls in the other direction as well. Sometimes I think as the dominants you can become insensitive to what we go through. We submissives get that prove yourself attitude all the time..... "you're not submissive if"....."you dont seem submissive"....."If you were submissive, you'd blah blah blah". After a while, it gets hard to share our deepest personal thoughts with every Tom Dick and Dom, and do it with respect and benefit of the doubt, like good little submissives, only to find out that we've been "Sirring" and defering to a wannabe. This end of it is no picnic either.

juliaoceania -> RE: Why do people do this? (9/15/2006 2:14:25 PM)
There is also the quandry of dominants that expect service from taken or owned submissives, as has happened at events that my Daddy took a former sub to. He related to me that there are some "dom/mes" that would come in and order his property around as if they had this right and it was owed to them. My Daddy handled this and has related to me that he does not expect me to show anymore deference to another dominant than I would to a fellow submissive. I am going to refer to all people by polite terms, such as miss, mrs, sir, mister. My Daddy often wears the "green" name tag so submissives do not defer to him at certain events. Not everyone wants nor expects more than their share of deference. What you consider "good manners" maybe presumptuous in another's eyes. I am not to talk to anyone that makes me uncomfortable at an event, my Daddy can talk in my stead... if another dominant has trouble with this, I believe that they can take that up with Daddy. It is his way, not mine. I am his and I want to reflect well on him by following his rules. I think that it is perfectly acceptable for a dominant to not want what is his serving just any old body. I think that is perfectly fine for a dominant to want their sub not to talk to or show any deference to anyone that he has not approved of first. I believe it is perfectly ok for a submissive to show only her own dominant any sort of deference.. because she only owes it to her One, and no one else.... just my opinion

Tamerofwild1s -> RE: Why do people do this? (9/15/2006 3:01:08 PM)
just to be fair here marietoo .. and so maybe you'll smile a bit . I have had more then my fiar share of e-mails and correspondences with subs and slaves who question me and my abilities because I don't do this that or the other thing .. so again . I think the pains are felt on both sides of the fence ... tho I would probably think the subs get just a little more because of the amount of "people" claiming "Dominance" and hoping they will just bark a few orders and a girl will automatically submit drop to her knees and start sucking his cock

Phoenixandnika -> RE: Why do people do this? (9/15/2006 3:07:41 PM)
First it was fluffy, puffy and fat cats now it's barking Doms! laughs as I note the pattern

Tamerofwild1s -> RE: Why do people do this? (9/15/2006 3:11:24 PM)
remind me to have a chat with Phoenix tonight will ya nika .... [sm=crop.gif]

MistressMelissa -> RE: Why do people do this? (9/15/2006 5:54:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: MistressMelissa In accordance with my house manual any "little one" in my house is to address any dominant as Sir/Ma'am unless I say otherwise. How do they address switches? Switches, Tops and bottoms are play time roles. Since a Switch is not a dominant they will be addressed by their given name. quote: quote: A slave should act with deference and thus I would not expect a slave to interrupt two dominants speaking. I also would expect a slave to step aside and let a dominant pass. Refilling a coffee cup if they have the pot in their hand would not be too much to ask. What if the slave were running a business meeting? Should they not ask the people talking during the meeting to stop? Should they get everyone coffee if it runs out in the middle of the meeting? I do not see the point of this question. Are you trying to be obtuse? I would expect any individual to conduct themselves according to the protocols of the work place.

MistressMelissa -> RE: Why do people do this? (9/15/2006 6:10:48 PM)
Thank you GoddessDustyGold. It is much easier to show someone what I mean than trying to put it into words.

catize -> RE: Why do people do this? (9/15/2006 8:32:31 PM)
quote: Sorry if you misunderstand. There is difference between exercising inappropriate authority (being a bossy bitch) and interacting in a polite and classy way. Although I took it to an extreme, I did not misunderstand. quote: By the same token if I am at My munch (or another's or a lifestyle event) and I notice certain submissives unshaven, needing a shower and dressed in a pair of dirty jeans and a t-shirt with an inappropriate message on it, I also know that this one is not for Me. I am always polite, I shake hands, I smile, I converse. But this does not mean I am not observing. As a submissive, I also observe the behaviors and demeanor of dominants and form an opinion of them; it does go both ways. quote: There is a demanor that pleases Me. Ditto. quote: Sometimes it is almost as if the submissive is trying to prove that s/he doesn't need to engage in appropriate behavior just because it proves a point that they are not owned, therefore they can be rude, or lazy or just hanging around to see if they can get a quickie . The definition of rude and lazy in this context is, in my opinion, simply a matter of perspective. It is impossible to submit to the entire world, and I dare say, would be exhausting. quote: I think we are coming at this from two different angles. I have, unfortunately met many submissives/slaves, or read their comments on mesasage boards such as this one, and that attitude comes through very clearly. If one is trying to prove that s/he wants to be in a M/s (sorry, but I am clearly a M/s Domina) relationship with Me, then it only makes sense that I would want to see that natural personality and a little bit of extra deference. Else, how will I ever know if this is someone who could be pleasing to Me? Yes, of course we see it from opposite angles <smile> I doubt that I will ever meet face to face anyone from a chat room or from the discussion forum. We are here to discuss, opine, disagree, share ideas and thoughts. There should be no dominance or submission in those venues. As far as I'm concerned, I see on line as a level field. quote: A little deference goes a long way. I certainly respect the dominant side of the coin, but I would disagree that dominance is a blanket entitlement to anything. Until there has been discussion and agreement to a relationship, orientation should not influence interactions.

catize -> RE: Why do people do this? (9/15/2006 8:53:01 PM)
quote: Labels or not, I feel it's good to assume the best in one you meet until they prove otherwise. One can be cautious but still respectful and willing to learn at the same time. Coyness, cynicism, paranoia and an overall "you've got to prove yourself" attitude from a female won't get her far with me. I have encountered too many of those to whom I refer as 'non-doms'. A healthy bit of cynical attitude is simply self-preservation. I would assume it holds true for both sides.

MistressMelissa -> RE: Why do people do this? (9/15/2006 10:22:29 PM)
Lets return to the beginning. Yes, there are many jerks in this lifestyle that believe since they can type in capital letters, that they are a MASTER. They believe that the world is there to serve them and they are jerks. I get that and I understand who and what they are. Other than shunning them from your local community, there is little you can do about them. Many of the examples given are just rude behavior. There are many ways to approach this lifestyle. While I have stated that I am not out to convert anyone to my line of thought, I do find it interesting that when I share my views, that I am often accused of being mentally unstable or some other unflattering name. So much for tolerance and acceptance. Yes GddssBella I am serious. I do believe that if a slave is service oriented, they will be drawn to a dominant personality and that they will find a way to make them self useful. I will not have to ask them, they will just do it on their own. Yes, it does happen. That is my reality. I make no demand upon anyone that is not mine, but again there is no shortage of people ready and willing to, should I make a request. Also I said slave, not submissive, they are not the same. I also understand that the vast majority of people drawn to this lifestyle, it's just about kinky sex and that's great. I too enjoy some kink from time to time. These are normally the ones stating rather loudly that they are my equal or that they don't have to do a thing for anyone but the one that "owns" them. The oddity is they are often the single one in the room or the one ordering their "Master" about. But that is just my experience and I'm sure your's is different. There are some that take the control of Ds to a more extreme level. Many do not agree with that, but it is my kink and you don't have to play. For those slaves who wish to be owned, I'm the one they seek. I am an owner. Their slavery is not fair, it is not easy, it is slavery and they would have it no other way. Many slaves complain to me that their previous owners were too soft with them or could not treat them as property without feeling guilty themselves. They tell me that after 3-4 weeks that the "owner" could no longer maintain their environment and thus they where no longer happy. Ownership requires a strong, self disciplined personality that few people have. It is why some owners and slaves don't believe in marriage and that an owner should not fall in love with their property. Ownership is the service I provide to the community. I provide a safe harbor for those that desire slavery. I allow them to submit and be owned in an environment that is not self destructive or harmful to them. My way of life is one that few will understand. There are many predators that pass themselves off as owners and are very dangerous people. But for those that seek the level of control I offer, they find peace and security. It's not about sex its about control and ownership. It's the freedom a slave feels when they are completely owned. Deference does not mean someone submits to me or that I order those I don't own around. Deference means that based upon my reputation with in the community and of what I have given to the community over the years that some respect is offered to me by my local community. Note, I said offered too. I have not request or demand this from them. They give it freely to me. That some choose to address me as Ma'am is a courtesy they offer me. That someone steps aside to let me pass or opens a door for me are just some examples. Again, I don't demand these things, they are offered to me. That is the key difference. Behaving with deference is the mark of a good slave. This does not mean they go around kissing butts or kow towing to anyone or everyone. They will spot and know the dominants from the tops and they will know where their skills will be desired. Deference is subtle when done correctly, not flashy or obvious. Since all we know about each other is what is written in these boards I would caution people to not be too quick with their responses and don't be so quick to assume you understand me or how I live. Thank you for the discussion.

zumala -> RE: Why do people do this? (9/16/2006 6:25:01 AM)
I suspect that we'll all just need to agree to disagree on specific points. If I've learned anything at all from reading the boards over the last several months, it is the simple fact that everyone is different and that not everyone seeks the same thing. Do what you think is right. Live how you feel you should. More than likely you'll end up attracting someone who values you for you eventually. Is this method fast? No, not typically - but it does work. As for me, I probably fall somewhere in the middle of the politeness scale. I'll hold a door if you're close to it, regardless of who you are. If you walk up with an empty glass and I'm holding the pitcher, I'll offer to pour. That's just common courtesy. I got out of the habit of sir and ma'aming, I think. I suppose I might, if the situation seemed formal enough. zuma

Sinergy -> RE: Why do people do this? (9/16/2006 7:06:59 AM)
Hello A/all, It is early morning, and I have to go stand under a crane all day, express my morpheme and drink coffee, so I apologize for this if I fail to express my thoughts. In the Real World, I go to an event and introduce myself to somebody else. This person and I talk, and they indicate to me that they are Dominant / submissive / Top / bottom / SwITch / Martian / From a little planet out by Betelgeuse / whatever. I indicate to them however I choose to identify myself to them. There is no published hierarchy of Dominance / submission / inter-species control protocal where I can go look up the person I am talking to. This person doesnt know me from A/anybody else. Putting D/s roles aside, the person standing in front of me indicates that they are from a small planet near Betelgeuse and insists that to truly be polite to them and not offend them, I must only speak to them standing on my head and drinking benzene. Do I: 1) Take them at their word and attempt to comply with their kink or self-proclaimed status? 2) Indicate to them that while I have met many people from that planet, standing on my head and drinking benzene is not what people from Earth do. Do I risk offending this person by indicating that I am uncomfortable with head-standing and benzene drinking practices, and will use the social norms in use on this planet. Polite manners developed in human societies largely to function as a sort of lubricant to allow people to co-exist in close proximity to each other without constantly slaughtering each other. The most sublime expression of this, historically, would be Japan. Due in a large part to the feudal practices and warrior culture of the 15th and 16th centuries, as well as small size of the island, the Japanese developed a system of politeness and respect of other people's personal space to a degree which I dont believe exists anywhere else on the planet. On a personal note, I am comfortable with how I identify, I dont really need (or want) other people to stand around all day long reinforcing it to me. Additionally, I developed a list of people years ago that I would allow to alter my emotional state. Over time, I discovered the inner beauty of removing people from that list (as opposed to removing them from my life) and the placid calm state of mind I am left in. So to summarize, I dont know why people act the way the OP asked about. I do feel that many take it to a level which I view as attempting me to go along with their non-consensual kink. Just me, could be wrong, but there you go. Sinergy

MissViciousVamp -> RE: Why do people do this? (9/16/2006 7:22:37 AM)
I've noticed this same thing so often and I don't understand it either. If I don't know you or haven't agreed to be your partner in some way I won't respond when talked down to. I think it is extremely disrespectful.

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