RE: Who pisses you off on your side?

RE: Who pisses you off on your side? (Full Version)

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CrappyDom -> RE: Who pisses you off on your side? (9/16/2006 6:22:59 AM)
L&M, I couldn't agree more. The ones I despise on my side: Feinstein - a corporate hack who just acts like a liberal but is as corrupt and money grubbing as the worst Republican Charles Schumer - him and Feinstein cost Clinton his presidency and allowed the Republicans to bring him down in the most crass political way. The two of them have told so many lies about guns that even Dems don't listen to th em anymore Lieberman - voted for impeachment of Clinton but has been busy sucking Bush's cock since day one Hillary - if she manages to wrap up the east coast Dems and the DNC we will be in big trouble in 08. Her phony pro-war quasi middle ground stance is transparant to far too many to win Any Dem who counsels that we "shouldn't be too agressive" when hammering this administration for its many crimes, foreign and domestic.

Arpig -> RE: Who pisses you off on your side? (9/16/2006 1:08:43 PM)
quote: Whatever your political persuasion, what elements of your side do you wish would just shut up and go away? Personally I wish they would all just piss off and go away. I dislike and mistrust anybody who enters politics. PERIOD!!

caitlyn -> RE: Who pisses you off on your side? (9/17/2006 6:33:46 AM)
I choose not to despise anyone, but will not agree instead. I consider myself on the left, but do not care for the very far left. I prefer a moderate position. I don't support anyone on the left with a campaign strategy of bashing the President, or their opponent. I feel this is a losing strategy that pushes swing voters into the other camp. In my opinion, if Democrats are issue focused and fact based, they will clean house in the next full-term election. If they go off the deep end, and start talking about treason, and criminal administrations, etc, etc, etc ... they will be beaten again by either a "Good 'ol Boy" or someone "Grandfatherly."

CrappyDom -> RE: Who pisses you off on your side? (9/17/2006 9:02:29 AM)
Lucky for most Democrats they see people like Caitlyn as the Republicans they are. We threw out Lieberman because we are tired of people allowing Bush to destroy the freedoms that make America great, the high moral standards that make us loved, and the economy that makes us envied around the world. People are so sick of wishy washy moderate Democrats who can't take a stand to save their lives. It is the ones who call Bush the traitor that he is that are winning. There is a wonderful race in California in a very VERY red district which has had the same Republican, John Doolittle for 20+ years and it looks like in all likelihood he is going to not only lose but loose big. Of course his opponent is not only a 23 year veteran of the air force but his son is on his FOURTH tour of duty in Iraq. You can bet money he isn't pussy footing around with "don't attack the president" crap. If the idiot is fucking everything up, sitting by quietly or being non partisan isn't going to fix anything. If we were dealing with Bob Dole or even McCain Republicans it would be possible to find common ground and work together, hell many of us could work with Pat Buchanan on many issues. They at least have the well being of America rather than their own private stock portfolio in mind. So no thanks to your kiss ass politics of not only the worst president this country has seen but probably our first traitorous one.

juliaoceania -> RE: Who pisses you off on your side? (9/17/2006 9:26:56 AM)
I have never seen Caitlyn claim to be a democrat... If she is, well it is an illustration of why we need many more than two parties. The tent just isn't big enough. As for questioning our leaders... anyone that thinks we should not question our leaders needs to go and read The Declaration of Independence and the Federalist Papers and the Anti-Federalist papers... we have a duty to question these things since we are supposedly free and what our leaders do is a direct reflection on us as human beings I know that other countries see us as brainwashed by our media and many forgive us for not knowing any better.. but that doesn't wash for me,... I think many of us intentionally stay ignorant and refuse to hold politicians accountable... lets face it, everytime we little people stood up to them they backed down.

WyrdRich -> RE: Who pisses you off on your side? (9/17/2006 10:41:19 AM)
Who was the California Liberal responsible for that famous line, "I can't believe Nixon won, I don't know anyone who voted for him," in the biggest landslide election in recent history? There are a lot of reasons I no longer support the Dems. I was never happy with those who wave the Bill of Rights around but want to chop out the Second Amendment. The way the definition of rascism went from being someone applying a different standard based on skin color etc. to someone who DIDN'T apply a different standard, bothered me deeply. As I stated in earlier threads, the last straw was when it became obvious to me that hate was the driving force and highest value of those I used to think were on my side. I have found myself using the word 'treasonous' in recent years. So far, I have applied the standard of "don't attribute to outright malice that which can be written off as simple stupidity." There are plenty of hate-filled people on the side that gets my vote now who use that word and believe it. They piss me off.

juliaoceania -> RE: Who pisses you off on your side? (9/17/2006 10:50:33 AM)
Can I ask you something, how the hell could ANYONE trust an AWOL assbite that ducked going to war and then starts one and then turns around and attacks veterans when he and all his cronies (except Rummy) were too big of pussies to actually fight? John Murtha, John Mccain, John Kerry all fought.. and were was Dubya? I could care less you do not vote for dems anymore. I rarely do myself. They left me as a party when they marched lock step behind their idiot monkeyboy resident off to war. You know what? People will completely and thoroughly avoid facts when they live in fear, and the war on terror keeps you afraid and makes you easier to manage. As far as the second amendment. I would be for it if you disarmed the government. The reason for it is so that the government does not overstep themselves, but you are so busy hiding behind the arms of the Feds, you never have considered if they aim them at you... you really are going to be outgunned.

WyrdRich -> RE: Who pisses you off on your side? (9/17/2006 11:12:51 AM)
Funny you should mention the gov't pointing guns at me Julia. One of my Brothers is in artillery in the Army and when he trains off the CA landscape, my house is his favorite aiming point. In the simulations, I've been taken out with 155mm cannon fire, MLRS rockets and in a joint service exercise, a 2000lb smart bomb (one indian burn too many I suppose). I don't think you have any problem with draft dodgers at all Julia. It's just a convenient way to attack someone you don't like.

caitlyn -> RE: Who pisses you off on your side? (9/17/2006 11:23:22 AM)
I would like to see a moderate Democrat in the White House ... someone like former President Clinton. I was not politically active when he was in office, obviously, but examining events after the fact, he seems to have been a very effective President. Because I want a moderate Democrat in the White House, I feel the party should rethink it's attack based strategy. I do not feel is it effective. Mad dog attacks by Republicans seems to be highly effective. The same tactics, when used by Democrats, only seem to push Southern swing voters to the right. Examining former President Clinton's campaign strategy that defeated former President Bush, it seems clear that he went after the policies of the President with complete abandon, and offered a clear choice. What it seem he never did, was attack President Bush Sr. personally. I may be wrong, I wasn't around to witness it, but have studied on this topic fairly extensively. In my opinion, if a Democrat wants to win the White House, they need to take a page out of former President Clinton's playbook, and use fact-based arguments to attack the policies presented by the Republicans. I believe you can question the policies of an official, candidate or party, without it turning into personal attacks. Personal attacks is not the same as questioning our political leaders. In my opinion, allowing the right to turn the upcoming campaign, into one dominated by personal attacks, only ensures that we will have another Republican similar to the one we have, in the White House.

juliaoceania -> RE: Who pisses you off on your side? (9/17/2006 11:48:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WyrdRich I don't think you have any problem with draft dodgers at all Julia. It's just a convenient way to attack someone you don't like. You can think whatever you like. I know I have problems with people that draft dodge, then start wars that they will send your and my children into... but they sure as hell will not send their own... not to mention attacking people who have served. I hate war, but I do not hate those who fight in them. They have enough burdens to bear without my hating them... such as fighting wars for oil for some two-bit pussy. I think we should draft Bush's daughters.

juliaoceania -> RE: Who pisses you off on your side? (9/17/2006 11:56:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn In my opinion, allowing the right to turn the upcoming campaign, into one dominated by personal attacks, only ensures that we will have another Republican similar to the one we have, in the White House. I think this is what the Democrats have seen happen over the last few years. It does not matter how well reasoned your argument, if the other side is better funded and repeats lies long enough, the American people tend to believe them... here is a quote from a great propagandist If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” [image]http://en.thinkexist.com/i/sq/as4.gif[/image] Joseph Goebbels quotes If the Democrats really want to win they need to start exposing the lies, because let me tell you, we have all been told a bushel of them. I will repeat what I have said before.. our political party system does not question too extensively because they want to maintain the status quo, even if that is a destructive path. I would recommend Manufacturing Consent by Noam Chomsky in documentary format. It really goes into the heart of how our status quo is maintained without a conspiracy necessary to make it so.

caitlyn -> RE: Who pisses you off on your side? (9/17/2006 2:08:14 PM)
I completely agree with you ... the American people have been lied to, and these lies need to be exposed. This needs to be done very carefully, and has to be done in a way that removes the opportunity for Republicans to spin this exposure as mean spirited or worse, anti-American. There are dozens of issues Democrats can attack. They should hammer these issues, offer an alternative and articulate how their plan will work ... and stick to that message.

juliaoceania -> RE: Who pisses you off on your side? (9/17/2006 2:43:37 PM)
My mom listens to Air America and when I am in the car with her I have noted that it does not sound all that different from Clear Channel, it does sound rather shrill I have noted that liberals are usually more free thinking and not taken to bandwagon jumping or shrillness or the tactic of repeating it over and over like a soap commercial. The problem with your approach Caitlyn is that the democrats need people that are swing voters, swing voters are usually only interested in voting in a presidential election year, do not follow finely nuanced issues closely, and tend to be attracted to diversionary issues.. such as gay marriage, flag burning, and stem cell research. There are issues they can have an intuitive opinion about without reading a great deal on the subject... republicans use that against democrats, in addition to their base accepting leadership and authority more readily. I am hoping my Daddy is right, that the republicans become so marginalized by their own penchant for corruption that it will become increasingly difficult for them to get elected dog catcher... much less start more wars like in Iran, which is seemingly where Bush may want to invade next.... sighs

WyrdRich -> RE: Who pisses you off on your side? (9/17/2006 6:15:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I think we should draft Bush's daughters. Hate makes people ugly Julia. Watch the old women coming out of the Baptist churches some afternoon. Do you favor drafting all young women? I understand you were just spouting some angry rhetoric but think your spoutings through a little bit. Apply the same standards to your enemies that you do to your friends. You do make incredibly valid points from time to time in your posts. I just wish you were consistent in applying them. On who will be marginalized by November, I expect the Abramoff scandal to emerge from whatever dark hole it has been sequestered in any time now. The tables will turn from the Dems screaming "politics!" when the Repubs raised the legitimate issue of national security, to the Repubs screaming it just as loudly over corruption charges on the front page. It might work, it might backfire. I am of the opinion that it will be the MoveOn. org and Michael Moore wing of the Democrats who find themselves saying, "but I don't know ANYBODY who voted for them."

juliaoceania -> RE: Who pisses you off on your side? (9/17/2006 6:32:57 PM)
Your hate is my justice Rich, I think that poor little rich girls should have to sacrifice whatever you want from my son.. so yes, if there is a draft I think his daughters should do their duty and sign up.... Why are you squimish about sending women off to war Rich, what did young men like my son ever do to you? Again.... I am not a democrat... make your own box for yourself and leave me out of it Edited to include these thoughts.... why do the people that start wars never want to sacrifice THEIR PRECIOUS CHILDREN TO FIGHT THEM.... Why is it hateful to point this out? Rich, if there is one thing I will not back down on is that it will be over my dead body that Bush gets my kid to fight in his fucked up oil wars.,... and a lot of other parents feel the same damn way... Do you have kids Rich... Are you willing to let them get their ass shot off for GW?

cuddleheart50 -> RE: Who pisses you off on your side? (9/17/2006 6:39:56 PM)
My son is 18, and it will be a cold day in hell before he goes to fight in that war.

juliaoceania -> RE: Who pisses you off on your side? (9/17/2006 6:51:29 PM)
Cuddleheart... this has been a worry of mine since the talk of invading Iraq started, that there would be a draft, because the numbers of troops necessary and what we had as far as obligations all over the world just did not pencil out. I know I may sound "strident" but this is one topic I have marched over. I have marched besides mothers of the troops in Iraq long before Cindy Sheehan came out. I cannot imagine what hell they live in and frankly I do not want to find out Our troops recruitment levels are so far under the targets they are seeking, and if Bush does decide we have to expand the war into Iran a draft will be unavoidable.. and it may become that way anyhow. I resent that hardly any of our representative or senators have kids in the military. I doubly resent the same people that started this war besmirching the character of veterans.. like Kerry and Murtha.. just because they do not agree with the direction the war has taken, as if it is treasonable to question "his royal highness" even though he has not a clue how to run a 7-11, muchless a war.. and that is obvious by the direction this war has taken... it is truly disheartening to me...

cuddleheart50 -> RE: Who pisses you off on your side? (9/17/2006 7:01:44 PM)
All I have to say is..he is my only child and he will not go....My son just registered when he turned 18 this past May, and he was questioniong me about having to go, and I told him that there wasnt a draft and he didnt have to worry about it.... I am so upset right now, I just dont know what to say. It'a a good thing that I can't get to Bush right now.

WyrdRich -> RE: Who pisses you off on your side? (9/17/2006 7:20:21 PM)
None with my name on the Birth Certificate. I do have a whole crop of younger brothers I raised through their teen years. Two are serving at the moment. Tell me you are not a Democrat all you like Julia. There are two viable sides and you are firmly entrenched in your hatred against one. If you aren't a Democrat, you are a "useful idiot" for them.

cuddleheart50 -> RE: Who pisses you off on your side? (9/17/2006 7:23:43 PM)
That was uncalled for...why be so mean.

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