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ScooterTrash -> Watered down BDSM (9/18/2006 4:57:01 PM)

So...has the BDSM lifestyle become too much of a catch-all for all the alternative lifestyles. I know many oppose the term "lifestyle", but that really is what it is in a way..we live life and have some rather odd (and interesting) ways of doing things that don't fit into society's mainstream model for behavior. BUT, does that mean that we have become the catch-all for everyone who drifts out of the center lane. No offense to anyone who fits the following categories and I do realize there is some crossover occasionally (gezz, we're poly but into BDSM activities), but where does cross-dressing, furries, infantilism, age play, etc, etc. come into the whole BDSM "big picture". Anyone can have fetishes, but that does that mean they are automatically in the BDSM lifestyle by default?  



MagiksSlave -> RE: Watered down BDSM (9/18/2006 5:10:01 PM)

Sir you make a very good point. BDSM seems to have become a dumping ground for all taboo activities. Now I dont have anything against these things like cross dressing and ageplay and they can be part of a regular BDSM activities but those things on their own are not  by themselvs BDSM related they are simply fetishes in their own rights. Just because something is off color doesnt make it BDSM. But thats human nature for you. People always want to put things into neet little boxes even when yhey dont fit. Saying a man who simply likes to wear panties is part of BDSM is like putting a squar peg in a round hole. It isnt a fit. I really hope that made some sence.
 
Magik's slave



mstrjx -> RE: Watered down BDSM (9/18/2006 5:15:26 PM)

Actually, moments ago I was posting in another thread and I used the word Lifestyle.

For me, it wasn't until I heard the arguments back and forth about that term that I even gave it a thought.  For me, what I or 'we' do is a Lifestyle.

Now, I'm not going to take credit for coining this word, but I think this answers your question.  (I'll just be the first to use it here.)

All of these things, CD, BDSM, the lot, can all have something to do within the broader classification of Lovestyle.

In essence, whatever it is that we do, is a part of our loving relationships with others.

In that, BDSM would be a subsection.  What percentage is anybody's guess.

Waddaya think?

Jeff



juliaoceania -> RE: Watered down BDSM (9/18/2006 5:16:35 PM)

I am definitely no expert on alternative sexuality. I will say that people that are into BDSM often have other interests and fetishes. Since humiliation is considered a form of domination and even sadism by some I suppose any kink could be considered humiliating.


BDSM is not even analogous with power exchange is it? I believe sadomasochism can exist without power exchanged at all. Or perhaps I am mistaken.

Edited to say that ageplay is often a part of daddy/mommy dominant play, and a child is under the power of an adult so that definitely falls under BDSM power exchange in my eyes (and I am not an ageplayer...lol)



jamesthehumanrug -> RE: Watered down BDSM (9/18/2006 5:19:39 PM)

why split hairs????you either are in s and m or have the potential ;like it or dont like it; follow the culture ,cause youre, in it ,or dont ,and ,are excluded .its a society ,that comes together and sorts out itself;we all left to ourselves ;form communites;i am forced to be in a community outside s and m but i maintain.......i'm always me;cant kill the great without it comming up someplace ;someone;you cant deny the great or youself or your commuity.
quote:

ORIGINAL: ScooterTrash

So...has the BDSM lifestyle become too much of a catch-all for all the alternative lifestyles. I know many oppose the term "lifestyle", but that really is what it is in a way..we live life and have some rather odd (and interesting) ways of doing things that don't fit into society's mainstream model for behavior. BUT, does that mean that we have become the catch-all for everyone who drifts out of the center lane. No offense to anyone who fits the following categories and I do realize there is some crossover occasionally (gezz, we're poly but into BDSM activities), but where does cross-dressing, furries, infantilism, age play, etc, etc. come into the whole BDSM "big picture". Anyone can have fetishes, but that does that mean they are automatically in the BDSM lifestyle by default?  



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Watered down BDSM (9/18/2006 5:19:52 PM)

I think it's more that bdsm is UNDER the "alt relationship preferences" umbrella just like all of those OTHER options, it's not the umbrella itself.

It's the main reason I differentiate bdsm from Ds and Ms- you can have one without the other and vice versa.  Options don't water things down, but then I like being inclusive and having it ALL.



MagiksSlave -> RE: Watered down BDSM (9/18/2006 5:21:43 PM)

Acrually Julia Master and i had this conversation the other day about how sadists and masachists dont nessaseraly have anything to do with beeing a Master or a slave and how you can be neather and still be eather or. And that many Masters are masachistic as well as many slaves are sadists and people that are neather Masters or slaves can be eather sadists or Masachists!!!

:) ok that confused even me.. hope I get my point across

Magik's slave



crouchingtigress -> RE: Watered down BDSM (9/18/2006 5:22:48 PM)

aloha scooter,
 
 i think it is like this, the term BDSM never really fit, nor does alternative lifestyles, nor does D/s, D-life, or kinky because there are so many over laps and cross overs...i dont think there is a term yet that fits, although alternative lifestyles covers it technically it is not very sexy to say.
 
i see it like this: there will always be folks that love base ball some love to watch it, some love to play in the minors, some like to play it in the back yard some like to buy all the groovy merchandise, some like to watch movies about it and fantasize, and some like to play full out, in the majors....but not a single one of those persons can be said to be a non-authentic lover of the game.
 
some folks that watch it love it even more then some of the major league players, and i know this because i know some major league baseball players but i digress, my point is thank god it is getting more and more wide spread, i think it is crazy to think there could ever be a sense of exclusivity on kink, i think that any one who owns a body should be able celebrate all the crazy, sexy, things it can do. and i think we as a nation are so fucked up around issues of sexuality, that any movement that has core principals of ...
 
getting honest with our sexuality by putting fantasies on the table
negotiating cans and cants , do's and donts
un-demonizing the darker recesses of sexual gratification
encourages you to grow as a person and question yourself regularly
encourages you to take responsibility for your own sexual desires
and encourages fun...
 
...is a wonderful movement in the right direction and maybe one day we will need an R rating to see a head get blown off and it will be a PG to see two people in love doing what lovers do....celibrating the mental spiritual and sexual union of souls...
 
ok so that is what i think....what do you all think....???



ScooterTrash -> RE: Watered down BDSM (9/18/2006 5:25:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mstrjx

All of these things, CD, BDSM, the lot, can all have something to do within the broader classification of Lovestyle.

In essence, whatever it is that we do, is a part of our loving relationships with others.

In that, BDSM would be a subsection. 
You make an excellent point....but I am not volunteering to do a diagram or flowchart on this...lol. But this does sound similar to LA's umbrella thought. It's like we automatically became the umbrella, when we should have been a classification under it.



Sinergy -> RE: Watered down BDSM (9/18/2006 5:48:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

aloha scooter,
 
 i think it is like this, the term BDSM never really fit, nor does alternative lifestyles, nor does D/s, D-life, or kinky because there are so many over laps and cross overs...i dont think there is a term yet that fits, although alternative lifestyles covers it technically it is not very sexy to say.
 


"Was it Keirkegaard, or Dick Van Patten, who said 'If you label me, you negate me."  Mike Myers, Wayne's World. 

One aspect of human consciousness is the need to take something that is unfamiliar to oneself and slap a label on it so that it is no longer an unknown, per se.

I personally think people who lump things like bestiality into the label BDSM are simply ignorant of what BDSM actually is.

But then, I dont really consider it my job to educate the hopelessly ignorant.  The older I get, the more I realize people desperately want to hang on to their illusions.  I figure people can define what they do in whatever way makes them feel comfortable and let it go at that.

Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy



eyesopened -> RE: Watered down BDSM (9/18/2006 6:10:34 PM)

i'd just like BDSM to include B&D and not so much focus on S&M.  B&D feels a little like the red-headed stepchild.  i avoided learning about the "lifestyle" way back when because i had an idea about S&M and knew i wasn't a masochist but that i DID want to be bound and controlled and be submissive.  There's not a whole lot said about B&D that i was aware of.... now that i found it i hope i get to stay and not still be considered a freak.



TemptingNviceSub -> RE: Watered down BDSM (9/18/2006 7:54:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ScooterTrash

So...has the BDSM lifestyle become too much of a catch-all for all the alternative lifestyles. I know many oppose the term "lifestyle", but that really is what it is in a way..we live life and have some rather odd (and interesting) ways of doing things that don't fit into society's mainstream model for behavior. BUT, does that mean that we have become the catch-all for everyone who drifts out of the center lane. No offense to anyone who fits the following categories and I do realize there is some crossover occasionally (gezz, we're poly but into BDSM activities), but where does cross-dressing, furries, infantilism, age play, etc, etc. come into the whole BDSM "big picture". Anyone can have fetishes, but that does that mean they are automatically in the BDSM lifestyle by default?  
Humm..well I think that those cross dressing,furries etc etc etc..may also practise BDSM as well ,just as you are poly BDSM ,they are getting tied and spanked with a squirrel suit on..I do not look upon it as subsets just multiple interests with a BDSM or D/M/s/s dynamic as the foundation....Tempting



LadyEsenem -> RE: Watered down BDSM (9/18/2006 8:11:21 PM)

quote:

...any movement that has core principals of ...
 
getting honest with our sexuality by putting fantasies on the table
negotiating cans and cants , do's and donts
un-demonizing the darker recesses of sexual gratification
encourages you to grow as a person and question yourself regularly
encourages you to take responsibility for your own sexual desires
and encourages fun...
 
...is a wonderful movement in the right direction...

 
I think you have summed it up in a nutshell. That was so very well said!
 
Lady Esenem



NastyDaddy -> RE: Watered down BDSM (9/19/2006 1:58:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ScooterTrash

BUT, does that mean that we have become the catch-all for everyone who drifts out of the center lane.



Anything which isn't nilla' is a flavor and BDSM is the "all others" category of flavors.

Now if BDSM were to be a corporation, the spectrum is indeed very wide and very deep, so the government would probably regulate and bust us all up.

Not to worry ST, you SJ and th are tight, they won't narc you out bro... let it all go and have fun. Post us a pic in your squirrel suit.  [;)]



SirLordTrainer -> RE: Watered down BDSM (9/19/2006 5:04:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ScooterTrash

So...has the BDSM lifestyle become too much of a catch-all for all the alternative lifestyles. I know many oppose the term "lifestyle", but that really is what it is in a way..we live life and have some rather odd (and interesting) ways of doing things that don't fit into society's mainstream model for behavior. BUT, does that mean that we have become the catch-all for everyone who drifts out of the center lane. No offense to anyone who fits the following categories and I do realize there is some crossover occasionally (gezz, we're poly but into BDSM activities), but where does cross-dressing, furries, infantilism, age play, etc, etc. come into the whole BDSM "big picture". Anyone can have fetishes, but that does that mean they are automatically in the BDSM lifestyle by default?  


Good to see a fellow Hoosier Dom, cool quote too Bro.  Heres My 2 cents on it as a former munch/slosh regular for 5 years. 'Organized BDSM' has always used terms for describing certain activities and/or fetishes. And they'll prolly add a few more to the list as time goes on, doesnt mean they have to apply to everyone. On a side note, theyres private groups of folks out there that enjoy bondage and spanking but in no way associate themselves with BDSM. Im like You to a degree in that Im Poly and into BDSM activities, exclusively. I look at it as one giant salad bar, take what you want from it and discard what you dont.



LordODiscipline -> RE: Watered down BDSM (9/19/2006 5:54:39 AM)

INterestingly enough -
 
I do not mind that the "alternative lifestyles" are involved/becoming involved/have always been involved - I am more piqued at the influence the idiocy on line has in who we are and what we do.
 
The entire reversal of dominance and submission over the last decades (From "I say, you do" to "A dominant cherishes his submissive and protects <read: coddles"> her") is what turns my stomache.
 
Where it impacts the actual dynamic is where it is irritating to me.
 
~J



OhReallyNow -> RE: Watered down BDSM (9/19/2006 6:00:21 AM)

quote:

The entire reversal of dominance and submission over the last decades (From "I say, you do" to "A dominant cherishes his submissive and protects <read: coddles"> her") is what turns my stomache.

this slave and Master were discussing this not too long ago, and we pretty much came to the same conclusion. This slave is property that is owned; and while this property is protected, it is not Master's job to cherish her, or to coddle her. His job is to guide me in my surrender to him so that this slave can be the best that she is capable of being.
 
this slave would like to point out that though Master does not coddle her, he does soothe her at times when certain things become too intense.



agirl -> RE: Watered down BDSM (9/19/2006 6:46:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ScooterTrash

So...has the BDSM lifestyle become too much of a catch-all for all the alternative lifestyles. I know many oppose the term "lifestyle", but that really is what it is in a way..we live life and have some rather odd (and interesting) ways of doing things that don't fit into society's mainstream model for behavior. BUT, does that mean that we have become the catch-all for everyone who drifts out of the center lane. No offense to anyone who fits the following categories and I do realize there is some crossover occasionally (gezz, we're poly but into BDSM activities), but where does cross-dressing, furries, infantilism, age play, etc, etc. come into the whole BDSM "big picture". Anyone can have fetishes, but that does that mean they are automatically in the BDSM lifestyle by default?  


BDSM...lifestyle....fetish.....kinky sex....What someone else thinks they are or what term they use to label what they are/do /are into ,doesn't impact on me whatsoever. I'm only going to plonk my own label on it at some point if I can be bothered or interested or if it matters. Which it ultimately just does not.

agirl





mstrjx -> RE: Watered down BDSM (9/19/2006 6:47:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline

INterestingly enough -
 
I do not mind that the "alternative lifestyles" are involved/becoming involved/have always been involved - I am more piqued at the influence the idiocy on line has in who we are and what we do.
 
The entire reversal of dominance and submission over the last decades (From "I say, you do" to "A dominant cherishes his submissive and protects <read: coddles"> her") is what turns my stomache.
 
Where it impacts the actual dynamic is where it is irritating to me.
 
~J


Is this why I've never had the thought to ask the clothes whether they are content hanging on the line?

I suppose the difference between a punch and a slap is which type of glove one is wearing.

And to think the number of quality submissive women dwindles.

Jeff



NINASHARP -> RE: Watered down BDSM (9/19/2006 7:32:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ScooterTrash

BUT, does that mean that we have become the catch-all for everyone who drifts out of the center lane. No offense to anyone who fits the following categories and I do realize there is some crossover occasionally (gezz, we're poly but into BDSM activities), but where does cross-dressing, furries, infantilism, age play, etc, etc. come into the whole BDSM "big picture". Anyone can have fetishes, but that does that mean they are automatically in the BDSM lifestyle by default?  


I agree with what you are saying, only because of the mail I receive by many of the self proclaimed"subs" who write, do not really have a clear understanding of what they are looking for. Some are into the things that I am into, but the way they present themselves, doesn't seem at all like they are submissive.

I was involved in a poly relationship for 6 years, I also had explored age play, pony training, cross dressing and so on, but never without the undertones of BDSM.

Lifestyle is what I share with mine on a daily basis. It is not just kinky sex and not just dungeon obedience. We are growing every day in our desires for one another and after 8 years still find that there are things to explore.  The fantasies that we each share are meshed with the dominant and submissive desires we each have for one another.




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