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World Opinion - 9/22/2006 6:16:28 AM   
peterK50


Posts: 433
Joined: 1/12/2006
Status: offline 		The President's of Iran & Venezuela both came to the United Nations this week & slammed the United States policies & George W. Bush. The reaction from around the globe was a deafening silence. How did the United States manage to sink so low in world opinion? Is is deserved? How do we fix it?

< Message edited by peterK50 -- 9/22/2006 6:47:05 AM >

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RE: World Opinion - 9/22/2006 6:28:56 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		You should be so lucky. See how Britain's rep has done, with Blair following Bush round like a poodle.

But then, who's the greater fool? The fool, or the fool who follows him?

Centuries of respect, even from our enemies, flushed down the toilet. Our democracy totally undermined. Our trust in the office of Prime Minister gone forever. Yes, we sure got a lot out of that - and we have massive military bills to pay for the trouble.

God bless George W Bush - 'cause no one else will.

The US and Americans are still liked and respected in my opinion by the way; the world knows this is all to do with the crazy foreign policy decisions of a government led by an idiot, and then our great leader proving himself even more an idiot than yours by following him.
E

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RE: World Opinion - 9/22/2006 6:45:02 AM   
meatcleaver


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Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		Bush an co are totally inept at diplomacy. While everyone knows that politics is a dirty rough business, publicly accusing countries of being evil and an enemy of civilisation while at the same time manufactoring reasons to invade a country everyone knows or assumes (Document for the New American Century) was planned before 9/11, to control their resources (another widely held assumption), is just plain in your face hypocrisy. Insulting people around the world by implying they are uncivilised and the American way is the one true and right way, just turns people off. Talking tough might go down well in Texas but to most of the world if it isn't seen as a threat, it is just seen as cartoonish and not to be taken seriously. It seems to me that America needs a little of Clinton's charm. While everyone knew he was tough and American interests were at the top of his agenda, he did apparently have a reputation for listening and a willingness to accomodate difference of opinion without accusing someone of being in league with terrorists.

Actually fundemental christians scare the hell out of a lot of Europeans and are seen as dangerous as fundemental muslims in their own way and rightly or wrongly they have been seen as in the ascendency in America. The get Clinton at any costs campaign by the right, though entertaining and seen as humiliating for America, made people in much of Europe question American belief in democracy. America desperately needs a statesman to correct the damage to its image. I guess the right person could quite quickly get America some respect back.

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RE: World Opinion - 9/22/2006 6:50:59 AM   
meatcleaver


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Status: offline 		I think there is also a difference between respecting Americans and American culture and what people think of the current American administration.

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RE: World Opinion - 9/22/2006 7:02:01 AM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		While I don't see thing from quite the fatalistic view that some others see them, I completely agree that America needs another skilled diplomat like former President Clinton, no matter what party he or she comes from.

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RE: World Opinion - 9/22/2006 7:06:53 AM   
Lashra


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Actually fundemental christians scare the hell out of a lot of Europeans and are seen as dangerous as fundemental muslims in their own way and rightly or wrongly they have been seen as in the ascendency in America. The get Clinton at any costs campaign by the right, though entertaining and seen as humiliating for America, made people in much of Europe question American belief in democracy. America desperately needs a statesman to correct the damage to its image. I guess the right person could quite quickly get America some respect back.

The fundemental christians scare the hell out of a lot of people. They are just as extreme and dangerous as fundemental muslims. But most Americans look the other way because they are "christians" and they can't be that bad, or can they? Their beliefs are not all that different from the extremist Muslims if you really examine them.

~Lashra

< Message edited by Lashra -- 9/22/2006 7:08:22 AM >

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RE: World Opinion - 9/22/2006 7:11:15 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		I guess stories like this (link) don't help. Which president said talk quietly and carry a big stick? The Bush administration just leave themselves wide open to being diplomatically out manouvred.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/pakistan/Story/0,,1878619,00.html

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RE: World Opinion - 9/22/2006 7:14:12 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		MC - amen to both posts!

Yes its true friends, we in Europe (or the UK at least) rarely see ordinary American people on the TV news or anything else that gets over here. I get to chat to a lot of you regularly, and though you lot are all obviously freaks and perverts (!), it has changed my view a lot. I'm one of the educated few (or like to think so) in the UK, and for a long time even I had no idea there were real, normal people like me over there. All I thought of when I thought of Americans was made up of (in no order);

1) Christian fundamentalists of almost psychotic faith and commitment
2) Dysfunctional families where anyone regardless of sex could be anyone else's mom
3) Obese people stuffing yet more super sized MacVomit meals
4) Ignorant people who know nothing more than they need to in order to survive (like, where's the nearest MacVomit)
5) Beer swilling, pot bellied guys in pick up trucks with guns and the intellect of a dog
6) Excessively wealthy idiots paying for cosmetic surgery and clothes for their pets
7) Extremely poor people living in squalor
etc

Obviously, this is what we get fed, because this is unusual stuff for us, and hence deemed interesting. The problem is not everyone here realises that. I know thats not what America is - its a big place with a lot of people. Sure there are some people who conform to the above, but I think its very unlikely in the extreme that the whole country and populace could be - it wouldnt work as a nation if it were.

But if you couple that image with the recent foreign policy, then naturally youre not going to get a good image, because the foreign policy tends to suggest Americans are the zealous, dysfunctional, unjust idiots we see on the TV!

Roll on the elections, and if nothing else lets be glad he cant "serve" again. Lets see a president and administration which overcomes the stereotypes rather than one that confirms it.
E

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RE: World Opinion - 9/22/2006 7:27:16 AM   
seeksfemslave


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Status: offline 		Of course Lady E: the UK is perfect in every way, it must be WE both live here !

In the UK a right wing Christian backlash  is definitely on the cards,  in my opinion.
We shall see, especially now that the body politic can no longer sensibly censor criticism of Muslims

Did you see Question Time last night 21st sept , a current affairs discussion programme which is usually as anodyne as it is possible to be.

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RE: World Opinion - 9/22/2006 7:33:49 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Of course Lady E: the UK is perfect in every way, it must be WE both live here !

In the UK a right wing Christian backlash  is definitely on the cards,  in my opinion.
We shall see, especially now that the body politic can no longer sensibly censor criticism of Muslims

Did you see Question Time last night 21st sept , a current affairs discussion programme which is usually as anodyne as it is possible to be.


Hi seeks - well, it is we who make it perfect of course!

Let the fundies come - I still have a 17th century sword somewhere from doing battle reenactments; I'd love to see it put to good use!

Yes - Question Time was good last night (you knew I'd be watching a programme like that!), and the one after with Andrew Neill; the best bit is the way she looks at Portillo, always makes me and Adrian laugh

E

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RE: World Opinion - 9/22/2006 7:43:23 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		Another point, I like the Yanks I do, for instance when we tried to emulate the Jerry Springer format it just didn't work did it. It takes flair and imagination and a certain cool savoire faire to come on TV and say you love your horse or you slept with the groom five minutes before the wedding ceremony. The Brits just weren't up to it.

Now if the Yanks just would stop talking from the back of the throat I would find hard to criticise anything.
Am I rambling at all. You will tell me won't you !

(in reply to LadyEllen)
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RE: World Opinion - 9/22/2006 9:12:39 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		I think that the silence was because of one or more of the following reasons

1 - They didn't approve of what he said.
2 - They thought it was tasteless.
3 - They thought it was secretly right but was afraid to express that because it wasn't diplomatically correct in that forum.

There are probably other reasons that you could site.   I just work up and am not totally awake yet.

I did notice that when they were in agreement they would stand and clap when I was watching.  And there were other remarks made that could not be considered pro-American by other representatives of their country.   I also think that the majority agreed with the aims of the US.  I feel that some even agreed with the methodology of getting there.

I also think that the two that stood up against the US were either drug countries or suffer from Little Man Syndrome and neither could care less what anyone thinks.

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RE: World Opinion - 9/22/2006 9:41:05 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		I think when Ahmadinejad said that the security council use the UN for their own ends he was speaking for the majority of the UN. The problem is, it takes something to make Ahmadinejad look reasonable but Bush is making him look reasonable. As for Chavez, he's a bit of a clown but he is championing the cause of the poor, whether is policies will help the poor is another thing but Bush spouting hyperbole against him only makes people warm to Chavez and makes the US look a bully.

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RE: World Opinion - 9/22/2006 9:59:44 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		peterk,

I think the reasons vary from nation to nation.

For example, in Britain, the frustration with the US is largely based on the polices of this current adminstration. My opinion is that Britons will re-evaluate their view of the US once Bush and his neo-cons are gone (presuming the baton isn't just passed at the next election/Presidency and there is real change). Ultimately, our societies have some common ground on our view of the world and how we want our countries to be ran so there is potential for Britons to chalk off the current regime as lunatics who do not really represent the US view of the world.

With say, France, I think there is a different issue. I have French friends and without wishing to cause offence to anyone they tend to see the US as culturally dead (and they see Britain in the same mould to a lesser extent) and thus don't really have a high opinion of the US regardless of who is running the country.

Then of course those with a real grievance, such as Iraq, will point to the number of countries the US has invaded since WW2 and the Governments overthrown and will point you in this direction to find the answer.

In sum, there are varying levels of dissatisfaction with US foreign policy for different reasons depending on the nation.

Also, I wouldn't assume that everyone within these nations has a negative view of the current US. My cousin worked in Seattle for Boeing for a couple of years and loved the place for all sorts of reasons and has spent the last couple of years trying to get back out there. There are plenty of Britons who share the American view of mass consumption, the bigger the better.

Regards

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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RE: World Opinion - 9/22/2006 10:07:42 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		Can I add to Lady Ellen's post on her view of Americans.

If you want a balanced view of the US from the British media you can find it in certain newspapers. The Guardian, for example, is a pro-American paper (probably a surprise to some) but if you read the paper there are countless articles based around influential US figures in civil rights movements i.e. the paper concentrates on the many good things that have come out of the US.

On the otherhand, if you read the right-wing rags that pass for newspapers in this country, then, yes, you will get a view of Americans that support the stereotype because the likes of the Daily Mail etc are still dreaming about Empire and conquest and still believe we are God's chosen people to educate the savages around the world.

Regards

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I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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RE: World Opinion - 9/22/2006 10:56:01 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		Weren't we the first to yell "The EVIL empire" first and went on to call them the "Evil-Doers"?
 
What goes around comes around. 
 
To those of other countries that read here:.. the real American people are NOT like Bush.  I know I was so blind that when 9/11 hit.. I asked "What is this about?"  I had NO idea America was as aggressive and greedy as it is.  It's the government..not us.  Most Americans will give you the shirt off their backs to those in need. 

edited to add:  My brother immigrated to Thailand.  I wrote him because I was worried if he was OK with the coup.  Long story short:  All the King had to do was tell the people to stay inside until it passes.  It'll change hands again relatively soon, if past history proves out.  The people love their king so much they get theirs in their eyes when he addresses them.  The other leaders of the world can only dream of an honor such as that.

< Message edited by LotusSong -- 9/22/2006 11:05:01 AM >

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RE: World Opinion - 9/22/2006 11:14:01 AM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Weren't we the first to yell "The EVIL empire" first and went on to call them the "Evil-Doers"?
 


I'm confused Lotus; do you mean the American people said this of the neocon administration, before anyone else? LOL

E


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RE: World Opinion - 9/22/2006 12:49:42 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
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Status: offline 		There seems to be more news, articles and TV programmes about America in Britain than the rest of Europe, most positive. I've spent twenty years living in France, Germany, Belgium and Holland and when I go back to Britain, it really does seem like the 51st state at times. In fact there seems more reporting of America in Britain than in Canada but I've never spent that long in Canada so my perception might be skewed. Most news here about America is just serious reporting, though since cable TV, the commercial channels send out a lot of American programmes but I don't watch much TV and most of my friends don't either.

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RE: World Opinion - 9/22/2006 12:53:56 PM   
LotusSong


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From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I'm confused Lotus; do you mean the American people said this of the neocon administration, before anyone else? LOL

E




No, We (The Americans) were the ones yelling "WTF!" when the election results came in.

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RE: World Opinion - 9/22/2006 1:11:45 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Did they say anything about "World Opinion" on the African countries who don't take care of their own people and who steal any foreign aid money and use it to buy new Mercedes Benz automobiles?
Inquireing minds want to know!

Oh, and does anyone really think the people of Haiti, Switzerland, or Tazmania stay up night worrying about the U.S. and Great Britain?
I mean really,* how much sleep* do you think people in those countries are losing?

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 9/22/2006 1:14:46 PM >

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