RE: Question on tribute

RE: Question on tribute (Full Version)

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NastyDaddy -> RE: Question on tribute (9/22/2006 5:17:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: demistress quote: ORIGINAL: NastyDaddy ....."Wish" lists and "Gift" lists are mere premeditations of obvious intent to manipulate and "profit" from total strangers.... yet here will cometh the argument of "supply and demand" warrants piracy... lather it on ladies.... "explain" your exploitation of total strangers who do not know you but will soon know your expectations of immediate objectification. [:D] Example: 57 Year old man wants to have his ass raped by me, he does not wish to serve..... I read his email, look at his picture, peruse his profile, and find nothing appealing in it, I respond to him with two options. He may offer to become a client, or he may continue to seek elsewhere, MORE often then not, he is grateful to have the opportunity to play AT ALL. If I'm not enjoying what I'm doing, I consider that WORK, and if I'm working, then I feel it is entirely appropriate for me to get paid. Sorry if this doesn't line up with your personal perspective on the issue, but then again, I don't think there's anything wrong with prostitution, or any other exchange of goods and services for money. Actually, thank you for comparing it to prostitution... for the most part I tend to agree with your analogy. What gives dedicated public servants like yourself a bad name is others who are not quite as dedicated... you know the type, the ones who promise to rape that 57 year old man in his ass, then take his measily few hundred bucks in their paypal account and then walk away telling him that he just got raped in his ass. Frankly I don't feel I need to police your pastime, or your work... if you did so, then it might make you stand out as a standup person that you say you are for the funds you receive in your work. Perhaps you are indeed an angel among wolves, eh? In other forms of business, most reputable business operators will strike back at the rip-off con artists who try to imitate their integrity, goodwill and services rendered. Are you a member and registered with the Better Business Bureau in your locale? Since CM banned financial domination and financial slavery, your imitator cons seem to hide often under the tribute umbrella.

LotusSong -> RE: Question on tribute (9/22/2006 5:29:52 PM)
I don't object to the practice, I object to the term "tribute". Call a fee a fee.

CreativeDominant -> RE: Question on tribute (9/22/2006 5:41:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong I don't object to the practice, I object to the term "tribute". Call a fee a fee. Exactly. And let's stop pretending that it is anything else but a fee.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Question on tribute (9/22/2006 5:46:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant Exactly. And let's stop pretending that it is anything else but a fee. I think we've got different ideas of what "tribute" is here. If people are talking "tribute" as in "In order to spend time with me, you must give me X physical object in return" then yes, obviously it's a fee. If a Master and slave live together and the master expects the sub to give tribute to his honor every year with a poem and blood sacrifice, I think we're talking something altogether different.

Frank01 -> RE: Question on tribute (9/22/2006 5:48:52 PM)
Most demand attention and adherence to thier desires as a tribute. Few will stick around if that is not paid.

michaelGA2 -> RE: Question on tribute (9/22/2006 5:55:10 PM)
i apologize for the following questions but i've been wondering about this for the longest time: Question: exactly what does a tribute buy these days? what do people get in exchange? is it worth the money?

BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Question on tribute (9/22/2006 5:55:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Frank01 Most demand attention and adherence to thier desires as a tribute. Few will stick around if that is not paid. Exactly, and most of the people who don't understand this, end up paying tribute, than whining, lol. I saw a quote I like recently: [quote]"Attention is the most basic form of love; through it we bless and are blessed." - John Tarrant

Frank01 -> RE: Question on tribute (9/22/2006 6:01:02 PM)
Unfortunately, many male subs lack basic social skills. Like how to initiate a relationship. So sexual fantasies are all they have to go on. With only this for a frame of refference, that's what they put forward. and why they never get to score with a non paying sort of Domme-they don't get that the attention and service are what these women WANT-to feel special and cared for by someone devoted. So finally, many of the women just throw thier hands up and say "Then you can pay me in OTHER ways, asshole!" I used to date a pro switch. She told me ALL about this crap,and about humiliation addicts,etc.....great teacher, I learned REALMS about kink from her. So when I hear male subs whining-no sympathy. Pay, or go away-no one rides for free.

BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Question on tribute (9/22/2006 6:05:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Frank01 Unfortunately, many male subs lack basic social skills. Like how to initiate a relationship. So sexual fantasies are all they have to go on. With only this for a frame of refference, that's what they put forward. and why they never get to score with a non paying sort of Domme-they don't get that the attention and service are what these women WANT-to feel special and cared for by someone devoted. So finally, many of the women just throw thier hands up and say "Then you can pay me in OTHER ways, asshole!" I used to date a pro switch. She told me ALL about this crap,and about humiliation addicts,etc.....great teacher, I learned REALMS about kink from her. So when I hear male subs whining-no sympathy. Pay, or go away-no one rides for free. Amen! [sm=applause.gif] M

CreativeDominant -> RE: Question on tribute (9/22/2006 6:06:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant The first one strikes me as something a submissive would do AFTER she is involved to a certain extent with the dominant as it has been noted on here that no male dominant has the right to expect this initially. The second one...expecting it from a submissive that you've just met is again frowned upon...which I agree with. Expecting sex because you've bought someone drinks or dinner or even having paid for them to come see you doesn't get it in the world today. I was brought up that doing those things bought you the pleasure of their company and that was that. While what you say is generally true- expectations on first date is often frowned upon, and it is archaic to expect sex in return for a visit. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen- it does, often. I agree...expectations of the male dominant upon the female submissive on a first date are often frowned upon. And as I also noted...my buying dinner or drinks or paying for travel expenses do not make me expect anything from a female submissive on my first time or second time with her. I wasn't raised that way and it is one point of view I have maintained. My point was that...based on what I've read on the threads in the forum and in talking/discussing/arguing this point with several female dominants at the clubs...is that expectations of a female dominant upon the male submissive for a tribute...at any time within their interaction...do not seem to be frowned upon. quote: have I not seen the question of dressing for a dominant or having sex with them discussed on here before and the general consensus is that this generally does not take place, nor should a male dominant expect to, at the request of the dominant on the first or second or whatever meeting until a "relationship" of some sort (generally involving trust and desire on the part of the submissive to begin submitting to the dominant) is felt to be in place, with negotiation? This is a case of self-selected bias and why you really can't go on forums to give a clear view of what happens in the real world. Most people say "Don't play on the first date" and yet you'll find almost everyone HAS done that at some point or another. There's a difference between what people say they do, what people say is "right" to do, and what actually ends up happening. While that may be true LA...the part about submissives going ahead and playing on the first date (and in my experience, it hasn't been...hmmm, maybe I've been too polite for my own good...or I'm just not that interesting or desirable until further along)...it is still often expressed on here that a female submissive should not have played/should not play on the first date and that the male dominant has no right to expect it to happen as an expression of devotion or even of appreciation. Yet, there are female dominants who expect the male submissive to show up at the first meeting with a tribute. There are some who expect it before that meeting ever takes place. How is that an expression of devotion or of appreciation? To someone they've never met? How is that O.K. for the female dominant to expect and yet it is wrong...as has been stated on these threads...for a male dominant to even attempt to tell a female submissive how to dress for that first meeting? And...where are the cries against the female dominant for expecting it? Or is it because it is money or goods ... material things (perhaps on top of getting to pay for drinks and/or dinner and/or travel expenses)... rather than a part of self, such as physical intimacy or dressing in a way that they did not determine...emotional - behavioral - mental "self" things, that is being asked for? quote: Hmmmmmmm, I can't help thinking of some of the female authors I've read who've noted how much more materialistic and goal-oriented men are than women, who tend to be much less concerned with the material things in life and are more concerned with the emotional and spiritual side. I dunno. I don't consider either gender to be more materialistic or goal-oriented than the other, I've simply said that their methods and preferences differ. As a generalization, I would agree with you. In specific instances, such as what has been noted here...I would differ. I've yet to see a male dominant ask a female submissive to give them money, books, CDs, DVDs for the privilege of spending time with the submissive or the privilege of having their ass beaten.

CreativeDominant -> RE: Question on tribute (9/22/2006 6:12:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant Exactly. And let's stop pretending that it is anything else but a fee. I think we've got different ideas of what "tribute" is here. If people are talking "tribute" as in "In order to spend time with me, you must give me X physical object in return" then yes, obviously it's a fee. If a Master and slave live together and the master expects the sub to give tribute to his honor every year with a poem and blood sacrifice, I think we're talking something altogether different. But that is not what is being discussed LA. I agree that a tribute that doesn't cost anything or that comes from the heart is the same whether being given from a female submissive to a male dominant or a male submissive to a female dominant is a tribute. But peruse the female dominants profiles...those that ask for tribute...and ask them whether they mean a poem/blood sacrifice/sex/whatever that comes from the heart or if they mean money or material goods. I have a feeling that the answer is going to slant more towards the material/money side.

jesskitty -> RE: Question on tribute (9/22/2006 6:38:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: jesskitty so i don't see why it would come up in a relationship that wasn't busniess like . Jess- ask yourself this question: Why do people give tribute to their gods? okay. i understand but i definatly don't agree with that. people are not gods and never are going to be, otherwise we would be caled gods instead of humans, which from my perosnal perspective just proves how the whole thought doesn't equal two and two..but as usual to each their own and i respect those that do so. just not my personal thing.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Question on tribute (9/22/2006 6:42:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jesskitty okay. i understand but i definatly do agree with that. people are not gods and never are going to be, otherwise we would be caled gods instead of humans, which from my perosnal perspective just proves how the whole thought doesn't equal two and two..but as usual to each their own and i respect those that do so. just not my personal thing. It's an analogy Jess, not meant to be taken literally. Some subs worship their doms, treat them as royalty (often thought to be ordained directly by the gods), and generally consider them in their lives almost if not exactly as they would consider their gods. Whether your dom demands tribute of blood, money, sex, animals, first born child, time, or clothes- it can be a sacred and submissive act.

demistress -> RE: Question on tribute (9/22/2006 6:45:49 PM)
Well because of the nit-picking first, I will say I picked up the word HERE, but I believe by definition the word is absolutely appropriate to use in this context: Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1) - Cite This Source trib‧ute /ˈtrɪb[image]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png[/image]yut/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[trib-yoot] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1. a gift, testimonial, compliment, or the like, given as due or in acknowledgment of gratitude or esteem. 2. a stated sum or other valuable consideration paid by one sovereign or state to another in acknowledgment of subjugation or as the price of peace, security, protection, or the like. 3. a rent, tax, or the like, as that paid by a subject to a sovereign. 4. any exacted or enforced payment or contribution. 5. obligation or liability to make such payment. [Origin: 1300–50; ME tribut < L tribūtum a levied payment, n. use of neut. of ptp. of tribuere to assign, allot, deriv. of tribus tribe] —Synonyms 1. recognition, commendation, eulogy. 4. levy, toll, impost, duty. Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1) Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006. Second, Nasty, I do my best to behave ethically and represent myself as honestly as possible. I would not possibly have any way to 'police' other domme and what they do, but if I did have information related to theft, I would provide it. Unfortunately due to the nature of this 'business' there is no better business bureau. However, as it happens I am a member with two other BBB's for my OTHER professional services I render, web design, and database design, and yes, beleive it or not I expect tribute for THOSE services as well. You can continue to be as mean spirited and condescending as you wish to be, it's water off my back. My behavior, my profile, my posts, and everyone who's ever met me from will attest to the honorable and ethical way in which I live my life both vanilla and not-so. But lets be clear on this: Yes there are "evil" money grubbing whores in EVERY line of work, there are contractors who will take your money and walk away without finishing your addition.... BUT NOT EVERY ONE IS LIKE THIS. To infer or imply that all domme who take paid sessions on occasion are "wolves" is unjust stereotyping, and you know it.

NastyDaddy -> RE: Question on tribute (9/22/2006 7:37:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: demistress ... To infer or imply that all domme who take paid sessions on occasion are "wolves" is unjust stereotyping, and you know it. You might note demistress... those are YOUR words and not mine, so let's be clear on that as opposed to trying to put your words in my mouth. Let's also note that your position and comments are based on "paid sessions on occasion". Additionally lets' note that my issues concern those who demand tribute straight up from total strangers merely for the priviledge of receiving a reply to a communication from a likewise total stranger. I don't think I'm the only one who shares that view, and yes it has taken on a wolves atmosphere in many ways.

Misstoyou -> RE: Question on tribute (9/22/2006 9:13:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NastyDaddy Additionally lets' note that my issues concern those who demand tribute straight up from total strangers merely for the priviledge of receiving a reply to a communication from a likewise total stranger. Sorry, I just don't see the issue. Perhaps they're annoying, but we're all adults here (hopefully.) While anyone can "demand" anything, the answer can always be "No." I'm sure it's frustrating and disappointing, but it's a virtual world. No one is holding a gun to a poor defenseless sub's head. He can block the offender, the same answer often given to female submissives who face virtual annoyances.

MisPandora -> RE: Question on tribute (9/22/2006 11:39:18 PM)
Tribute, according to OLD pro mistresses from the 70s era, used to be the catch phrase for payment-for-service. In personals ads in the Village Voice, for instances, one would put some code words in, and at the end, it would say Tribute, SASE to (address). And guys would write, send a tribute, arrange a session, and poof, they'd actually show up to a professional dom session. The one now-retired domina that I'm friends with tells me how the cops would look through these ads and the ones who had the decency to use "tribute" they left alone. Those who flew their hourlies in advertising were quick to get busted. (She led me to believe that was the vice "line" on how they determined sex-for-pay vs. domination-for-pay...but there has to be more to it than that!) The internet seems to have corrupted that term. Now, instead of tribute being a classier way to say "professional, expect to pay for services", it's become this mucked-up term to mean, "I think I'm special because I say I'm special and you should have to pay me to engage with you." Bear in mind that many things can be considered a tribute, from a gift as simple as a candle or fresh flowers to extravagant gifts and financial considerations.. However, it seems to be most often used these days, especially by women online, who aren't really professional dominas providing an actual "service-for-fee", rather, taking something for virtually nothing.

angelina1 -> RE: Question on tribute (9/23/2006 12:08:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NastyDaddy Additionally lets' note that my issues concern those who demand tribute straight up from total strangers merely for the priviledge of receiving a reply to a communication from a likewise total stranger. I don't think I'm the only one who shares that view, and yes it has taken on a wolves atmosphere in many ways. So basically your issue is with the people on here that are scammers. Those that demand "tributes" for nothing in return. So should we not actually be recognising the difference. Is this thread about tributes or is it about those profiles on here where people ask for something with no intention of giving anything in return.

BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Question on tribute (9/23/2006 12:12:15 AM)
quote: I owned the service, I gave the guys fair warning that they were just interested in taking advantage of them. I was on good terms with them. You owned the service and profited from what those women did/were, but here you are putting them down. Dude, what did you expect the women to provide? Love and affection to men who come, pay for an hour and go back to their wives? You sound like you were seriously hurt and corrupted by how harsh the world can be. Grow up, and Who has the signature about "be the change you want in the world.?" M

NastyDaddy -> RE: Question on tribute (9/23/2006 12:50:46 AM)
angelina, if you read the second sentence in the second paragraph of MisPandora's well worded post above your's, where she states "Now, instead of tribute being a classier way to say "professional, expect to pay for services", it's become this mucked-up term to mean, "I think I'm special because I say I'm special and you should have to pay me to engage with you."... she summed up the issue very nicely. My reference to wolves was in regards to the mucked-up abuse of the term "tribute"... and it's bastardization from a Pro Domme call sign to what is frequently a scam perpetrated on noobies. The double-standard exists wherein femsubs are advised to not play on a first meet (which I agree), yet on the flip-side 'tribute" is often glorified as objectification play, and is expected/demanded up front from absolute malesub strangers, totally devoid of any earned trust and relationship building as is advised to femsubs approached by male Doms. My point (and the point of others) is that we should be consistent, and practice what we preach. I see no problems of a malesub giving gifts of tribute to Dommes with which they are in a trusting relationship with (are not total strangers), or Pro Dommes who charge fees for sessions. My issue is with a vast number of Mistresses/Dommes who abuse tribute and demand/expect tribute because as MisPandora eloquently stated "they think they are special" ... and the actual scammers who abuse tribute, in doing so it casts negativity on true Mistresses/Dommes, and the collarme community. Collarme banned financial domination/slavery... noobies come to collarme to learn, and they should not be taken advantage of by those who abuse tribute, demanding/expecting it from noobies/strangers. Bad apples will spoil the whole barrel, for the good apples also.

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