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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

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ORIGINAL: CherieP

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

I would ask you the same question in reverse...if a male dominant were to ask for a tribute from the female submissive...let's say that she pays for drinks and/or dinner or his travel expenses to come see her...to prove her genuine desire for submission and that she can be generous and giving to a dominant, what would your opinion be of the male dominant in this instance?

Assuming he was upfront with her from the start, and not pretending to a "true love" type committment that he had no intention of honoring, I would say more power to him...and more importantly, more power to HER.  I think it would be a very good thing if more women availed themselves of the services of male sexual service providers.  They DO exist, nice women are just not supposed to know about them or ever dare to use them. 

That's great from the professional level and on a professional level, I would agree with you.  But the question was coming from the perspective of the original question which dealt with female dominants who are NOT professional.  Therefore, my question would concern a male dominant who was not professional.

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ORIGINAL: CherieP
I will leave it to the readers to determine for themselves which of us is tarnishing the genuine efforts of others in the community.

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ORIGINAL: raiken

For me, that would depend on who had the financial means and who didn't, and the mutual consideration of such situations between the two involved.
 
There are some who may view this to be less than honorable for a dominant to ask for financial generosity of a submissive, (if in fact) the dominant knows that the submissive could not truly afford to be that generous.  If such a thing were still asked by the dominant after being made aware of the subs finances,  i would consider the possibility that the dominant is already not looking out for the well fare of the sub in this respect, if it were to cause a financial hardship.
 
On the other hand, there are those doms who use this as their own sort of test. As in measuring the subs willingness to comply and as an indicator of how serious the sub is in meeting said dominant.  The few doms i know who have in fact done this, have surprised the sub by offering to reimburse. To me that is honorable and both parties were mutually fulfilled in the transaction.  For me, it seems to come down to what one is willing to sacrifice for another, a partner, and/or to have their dreams brought to reality, etc. In this aspect, there is no right or wrong, just differences of how we each pursue what we want and the measures we are willing to use to get it.

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ORIGINAL: NastyDaddy

NewsFlash:  CherieP, hate to break the news to you, as much as you do enjoy flattering yourself... but my opinion and the opinions of many other readers were formed long before you decided to cash in for yourself also. The mucked-up perverted concept has been around much longer than you have. 

Your noble ideas and stated position are indeed refreshing.  Money talks and bullshit walks.  It's not a lifestyle... it's a SOHO business of the dedicated.  

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ORIGINAL: CherieP

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

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ORIGINAL: CherieP

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

I would ask you the same question in reverse...if a male dominant were to ask for a tribute from the female submissive...let's say that she pays for drinks and/or dinner or his travel expenses to come see her...to prove her genuine desire for submission and that she can be generous and giving to a dominant, what would your opinion be of the male dominant in this instance?

Assuming he was upfront with her from the start, and not pretending to a "true love" type committment that he had no intention of honoring, I would say more power to him...and more importantly, more power to HER.  I think it would be a very good thing if more women availed themselves of the services of male sexual service providers.  They DO exist, nice women are just not supposed to know about them or ever dare to use them. 

That's great from the professional level and on a professional level, I would agree with you.  But the question was coming from the perspective of the original question which dealt with female dominants who are NOT professional.  Therefore, my question would concern a male dominant who was not professional.

Actually, I don't think the original question DID make any distinction between those who consider themselves pros (of one sort or another) and those who, while insisting that it's not a business transaction, demand cash tribute as proof of a sub's "genuine desire to submit"...

"Reading the other thread, i got to wondering.  What does tribute actually mean to a Mistress? i see the mention of cash as in "paying" tribute (lol pun intended), i see lip service as another, etc.  But i am curious... How does one define tribute with regards to this area?  What does it, or how should it, look like to each of you? Thanks in advance."
 
Perhaps some fuss could have been avoided if such a distinction had been made, but it was not, and - from what I've seen - generally isn't.  At least, not in online forums anyhow.  The money grubbers just get lumped in with those attempting to provide an honest service, and the businesswomen get tarred with the "cheat & scammer" brush.

From a personal perspective, and assuming that what the woman was getting out of it was no more than the date itself...well, he'd have to be Eddie Izzard or something like that for *me* to want to date him.  I would probably judge him to be a pricier version of the man who sits home guzzling beer while his wife works to support the family.  But then I believe, ultimately, in a fair exchange between partners, whether the relationship be a love relationship or a business one, and whether it be vanilla or kinky as well. 

I doubt I'll ever be in the market for TPE. 

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ORIGINAL: GreedyEvilBych

Ive never understood why people care what anyone does? If you dont like Pro dommes, dont look for them, dont read their profile, and dont talk to them, same goes for dommes who require a tribute...99% of the time, its no shocker that they require it, as it is written in their profile. I do not understand why people get so bent out of shape about this?BDSM has been around forever and it isnt going anywhere.. this theory that "people who require tributes are ruining the lifetyle" blah blah blah... we all know that isnt going to happen. Just do not associate with people who do not share the same interests as you and you wont ever have to worry about it.... one thing I am appalled by is the lack of respect in this thread by so called submissives.... calling people whores and other  names is just uncalled for. Why would you even lower yourself & discredit yourself by calling someone you dont even know a "whore"? IMO.... any male who claims to be a submissive who believes in female supremacy and then in the same breath calls a woman a whore who he doesnt even know, is totally contradicting himself. Some men actually consider tributing a fetish, as do women... if they enjoy that fetish then why not let them enjoy it? its no different than scat, or cbt...not everyone has to like it or agree with it, but who are we to judge each other for it?

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ORIGINAL: CherieP

Ms. Pandora, (and any other women out there who provide sexual services of any sort for pay), does it bother you that there's this insistence on lumping all women who provide paid services into the class of liars, scammers, and cheats?  Do you find that this is common in your real-life interactions in the kinky community, or do you think it's mostly a feature of the online world? 

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ORIGINAL: marieToo

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

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ORIGINAL: LotusSong

I don't object to the practice, I object to the term "tribute".  Call a fee a fee. 

Exactly.  And let's stop pretending that it is anything else but a fee.

They can't.  I dont know all the state laws, but I would imagine prostitution is illegal in most of the states.  So if they go and charge a fee and have a set rate, wouldn't they be incriminating themselves?   Taking a gift/tribute, or even demanding one, I think, is different legally than take greenbacks for the service.  I could be wrong, but this crossed my mind as a possible reason.

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ORIGINAL: trannysub007
    Being respectful and being submissive are two things that do not necessarily have to happen at the same time.  A person can post a message that is respectful, even while totally disagreeing with the other person, and never submit to that person at all.
    There are prescious few Dominants who have posted on these boards that i would consider submitting to. Not that i'm super sub,  or anything special anyone should desire as a sub. But based on what i have read here by many of Dominants, they lack any ability to be courteous or respectful.  As if, in order to be a Dom/me, One must be a jerk. 
         Yeah, so anyway, you can be respectful to everyone and submit to none. i was under the impression that BDSM included mutual respect, at least to a point.  Whatever; even the disrespectful, snarky ones occasionally post something of value .... most of them, anyway. 

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
O.K...setting aside the quibble as to whether or not using the term "Mistress" rather than "Pro-Domina (or some variation)" made it clear as to whether or not what was being discussed were non-professional female dominants:

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You went ahead and answered the question about your feelings about a male dominant who did the same as the female dominant...demanded tribute in a specific manner for the privilege of spending time with him...the male dominant...while neatly sidestepping your opinion of the non-professional female dominant whose tribute demand was the same. 

I have your opinion of the male dominant who demands tribute.  I'd like your opinion of the female dominant who does the same.  And to make it clear, she is non-professional in the same way as the male dominant.

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ORIGINAL: MisPandora

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ORIGINAL: marieToo

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

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ORIGINAL: LotusSong

I don't object to the practice, I object to the term "tribute".  Call a fee a fee. 

Exactly.  And let's stop pretending that it is anything else but a fee.

They can't.  I dont know all the state laws, but I would imagine prostitution is illegal in most of the states.  So if they go and charge a fee and have a set rate, wouldn't they be incriminating themselves?   Taking a gift/tribute, or even demanding one, I think, is different legally than take greenbacks for the service.  I could be wrong, but this crossed my mind as a possible reason.

Incorrect.  Depending on the state law, the term "remuneration" often comes into play in exchange for a sexual service provided.  Remuneration can come in MANY forms by court precedence, from gifts to paying someone's bills to outright handing them cash or credit cards or checks.  Tribute falls into that.  (And some state laws make it look like getting laid when you paid for dinner illegal....)

The sticky wicket comes in where "sexual service" is defined in that state's crimes code.  There are some that include "acts of sadism and masochism" and others that are so vague that even "penis-to-vagina sex" is really questionably illegal.

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ORIGINAL: CherieP

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
O.K...setting aside the quibble as to whether or not using the term "Mistress" rather than "Pro-Domina (or some variation)" made it clear as to whether or not what was being discussed were non-professional female dominants:

That would be quite a quibble, especially as I see that several pro-dominas on this very thread refer to themselves as "Mistress", and I never referred to myself as either Mistress or pro-domina.  If asked, I would call myself a professional...and leave it at that.

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You went ahead and answered the question about your feelings about a male dominant who did the same as the female dominant...demanded tribute in a specific manner for the privilege of spending time with him...the male dominant...while neatly sidestepping your opinion of the non-professional female dominant whose tribute demand was the same. 

I have your opinion of the male dominant who demands tribute.  I'd like your opinion of the female dominant who does the same.  And to make it clear, she is non-professional in the same way as the male dominant.

Ok...assuming that she was not one of those women who are demading tribute for absolutely nothing, that she actually intended to meet, play & possibly settle down with a sub, and was using tribute as a test of his "generosity"...I would class her as the equivalent to a vanilla "trophy wife", in that she was basing her relationships on the prospective partner's wealth rather than any other characteristics he might have.  I couldn't do this myself; it's not in my nature.  Would I condem another woman for it?  I would probably find her less personally repugnant than the beer-guzzling moocher, if only because she is a) likely to be more honest about what she's doing and b) smell better.     But I think the same could be said of the pricier male version as well...the arm-candy type lovers *do* give something in return, insofar as they put an effort into maintaining a certain appearance and also fulfill a social function in the upper classes.  I probably would not choose to have such a lover (I couldn't afford one anyhow!),  I know I would not choose to *be* such a lover, but if the people involved seek this and find it fair, well, who am I to bitch about it?


The problem, as I see it, is that some folks in places like this insist on making blanket declarations about women who ask for payment as if one could possibly describe ALL their motivations and intentions without bothering to examine the particulars of the case.  In my experience, NOBODY in the kink community can be summed up quite as neatly as that.  For instance, I find that the vast majority of men who message me are out for a free wank...do I publicly and rudely insist that 100% of them are only after this?  Do I go around flaming the subs who post on these message boards, complaining about the women who ask for payment?  No, that would be ridiculous.  Why then should I tolerate anybody doing the same to women like myself?

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"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

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ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

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Now, our theoretical male dominant has done the same.  He has asked the female submissive to prove her submissive nature and provide drinks and/or dinner and/or sexual interaction as an expression of her devotion to him, as an acknowledgement of his precious time, etc., etc.. before he deigns to dominate her in any fashion or even talk to her.

I would love it if more male doms thought like our theoretical m/dom...as long as he can back all this up and follow through and be a class act,  I'd think he's got the perfect nature to be a dominant man who thinks well of himself, his skills and his experiences.  
 
Just a random input, haven't being following the thread

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ORIGINAL: CherieP
The problem, as I see it, is that some folks in places like this insist on making blanket declarations about women who ask for payment as if one could possibly describe ALL their motivations and intentions without bothering to examine the particulars of the case.  In my experience, NOBODY in the kink community can be summed up quite as neatly as that.  For instance, I find that the vast majority of men who message me are out for a free wank...do I publicly and rudely insist that 100% of them are only after this?  Do I go around flaming the subs who post on these message boards, complaining about the women who ask for payment?  No, that would be ridiculous.  Why then should I tolerate anybody doing the same to women like myself?

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ORIGINAL: CherieP
Yeah, freebie-seeking wankers is what I usually call them myself.

And you can usually spot 'em a mile off by their extravagant claims (I have a large estate...I'm about to inherit a lot of money...etc) or their extravagant praise (You're the most beautiful Goddess I have ever seen...I would give anything to serve you, do anything you ask...I want to be owned by you 24/7...etc).

You can tell right off the bat that a) they're lying and/or b) they have little or no clue what is required in developing an actual, real-life D/s relationship.

And they often have an "oral fixation" or are interested in toilet training too, at least for me.  Maybe I just have the sort of ass that appeals to that though.