LordODiscipline
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Joined: 6/28/2004
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quote:
Once this identity has been established as an alternative lifestyle, perhaps a misfit lifestyle that is not accepted by the mainstream, then those that embrace the culture seek to name it and own it. They tend to be more militant than others that belong to the lifestyle in doing so, and judge others that are new as not "true" to the culture.
But - I do not see groups doing this... and, individuals are generally censured in their idiocy by the whole (the group). And, rightfully so, as they are generally newly coined.
As you stated in your:
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I have seen many do this via the internet message boards, albiet most are newbies
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did not see Sinergy state anywhere in his post that any human was not judgmental, so I do not know where your observation in relation to his words comes from.
Sinergy stated: " guess my point is to suggest that perhaps it is not the group (Black Panthers, Feminists, Kinksters, Rotarians, etc) which is judgemental. It is people who are judgemental, and their lack of tolerance for diversity is expressed in whatever group they identify with."
(Which if you really read it is rhetorically stated in such a way that it counters itself nicely)
My statement that "everyone is judgemental" served to indicate that it is not the group being infected by the individual, but the group itself which is key to this insularity and inability for "us" (the subculture) to work together. Certainly groups are swayed (and, sometimes significantly in emotional issues) by the individual - but, they are more staid and rigid/inflexible in their prejudices once formed and seldom move from there easily.
Hence my statements following that.
You and Sinergy would be better served in utilizing the model of gay liberation and organization as our history more closely parallels theirs... they have the same issues we have - and, are far less radically biased in their main stream groups (much like we are).
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It is the way communities of people set standards, have social cohesion, and function as a group. If you go out of your groups "norm" some will chastise you for it...
My point exactly. - It is the group and not the individuals who levy and enforce prejudices and mores.
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Getting back to the subject at hand, those within the established culture are often resistant to change of any sort and are threatened by it, although there will always be trail blazers that know change is inevitable, and as time goes on everything changes. People who want to maintain a status quo and ownership of the group know that if you name it you control it...hence the battle to label everything, and the bikering within to define things... Because this subculture is ill-defined.
But - and, here we go:
1. Everything is ill defined.
2. People want to control it by controling the definitions
3. Everything is ill defined.
4. Oh - and, change is inevitable.
It is ill defined... no one controls the definitions.. people get pissy and start posts like this. There is no control (per se) of the culture. Unlike the feminists we have not held conventions to define ourselves and argued about who is and is not included in our soire'.
We just piss and moan on these boards and everyone toots his hirn about why he feels he is right.
Social Science and group dynamics would bear out Sinergy's statements IF we were defined and unified in some [any] way.
We are not... and, even the major organizations refuse to play that game and remain silent due to the absolute universal inability to state definitions for everyone.
(There is something 'universal!' ;)
~J
_____________________________
"Anyone who thinks they're important is usually just a pompous moron who can't deal with his or her own pathetic insignificance and the fact that what they do is meaningless and inconsequential."
William Thomas
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RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 
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