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RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/25/2006 8:06:45 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

It's late here, but after reading your post, I had a thought or two. In my (albeit limited) experience in life, I've found that people's tolerance levels are related to their understanding.

By and large, people that understand other's behaviour, views or stances tend to feel less threatened by them and find it rather easier to accept them, even if they don't hold the same.

Regards, agirl

Hello agirl,

While what you say is true, my own experience suggests that people who are aware of their own thoughts, feelings, awareness, etc., tend to be less frightened by other people's opinions.

I tend to think it goes back to being afraid of the dark, the thing under the bed, or the demons lurking deep in one's consciousness.

But that is just me, etc.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 61

RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/26/2006 3:18:47 AM

LordODiscipline

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Joined: 6/28/2004
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1. It is not the group
2. It is the people in the group
3 It is expressed through the group.

The Marx Brothers had a skit like that.

~J

< Message edited by LordODiscipline -- 9/26/2006 3:19:18 AM >

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"Anyone who thinks they're important is usually just a pompous moron who can't deal with his or her own pathetic insignificance and the fact that what they do is meaningless and inconsequential."
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(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 62

RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/26/2006 4:46:24 AM

agirl

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Agreed.......I'd add that I've found that this often means that people are far less rigid also.

agirl

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 63

RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/26/2006 5:13:14 AM

agirl

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Isn't it a little like the *societal norm* of what marriage meant and how it should be conducted. Once, it was awfully bad form if the wife worked outside of the home along with many other things. If you didn't conform you were sniffed at, or tutted....people would shake their heads. It wasn't *proper*. What people DID behind their closed doors had as many permeatations as nowadays. Times change and people's ideas of what a marriage should entail changed............but a marriage still is a marriage.......even if the word *obey* can be ommited from the vows.

agirl

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 64

RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/26/2006 7:19:06 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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Yes I think that is true agirl. I think that often when people deviate from what the norms are of their culture it is threatening. Take another example from my country, in The South Black people were segregated, and when an attempt to change this was made some people in the South were so very afraid of it that they were violent and some people were murdered. Change is a scary thing for some people.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 65

RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/26/2006 7:32:20 AM

ShiftedJewel

Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline

(snip) would be better served in utilizing the model of gay liberation and organization as our history more closely parallels theirs... they have the same issues we have - and, are far less radically biased in their main stream groups (much like we are).
(snip)
But - and, here we go:
1. Everything is ill defined.
2. People want to control it by controling the definitions
3. Everything is ill defined.
4. Oh - and, change is inevitable.

It is ill defined... no one controls the definitions.. people get pissy and start posts like this. There is no control (per se) of the culture. Unlike the feminists we have not held conventions to define ourselves and argued about who is and is not included in our soire'.

We just piss and moan on these boards and everyone toots his hirn about why he feels he is right.

Social Science and group dynamics would bear out Sinergy's statements IF we were defined and unified in some [any] way.

We are not... and, even the major organizations refuse to play that game and remain silent due to the absolute universal inability to state definitions for everyone.
~J

I would say you are right on the money with the statement about the gay liberation movenment because in my opinion we are right where they once were. Many activities that we enjoy are illegal because society sees it as outside the norm and until we become "Loud and proud" it is only going to get worse. I know there are people out there that simply cannot or will not take the risks involved in speaking out but it baffles me as to why they are so adament about not wanting others that are willing to speak out and be heard?

And I also agree that the biggest downfall is the illusion that words mean whatever an individual wants them to mean and so long as people refuse to agree on definitions then the chances of becoming a cohesive and organized group are zero. How are we supposed to explain, exonerate, or express ourselves in a coherent manner to the 'nilla world and the law makers if we cannot even do it among ourselves?

I think one of the biggest issues in debating the definitions would be that some people have given and gotten the impression that what ever their particular kink is would somehow be lessened without a widely accepted title or lable. And I believe that most BDSM sites (including this one) help to kindle that belief with the lack of options such as "top" and "bottom" among other... which are just as much a part of BDSM as sadist and masochist.

Ok, most that know me understand that I could write a book on how I feel about definitions in the lifestyle so I'll stop preaching to the choir.

Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to LordODiscipline)

Post #: 66

RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/26/2006 9:43:57 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

...I think that some out there have the opinion that if others keep to themselves and do not join every group in their area, becoming lifestyle advocates, running munches or at least attending them, well these are not “real” D/s dynamic people. I think that they are allowed to their opinion mind you, I am just not sure why people being dominant and submissive in their own relationship doing it their own way is so offensive?...

there are many folk who become "lifestyle advocates" in an attempt to lessen the societal stigma of D/s and M/s relationships. We met with several title holders, past and present, at the Folsom Fringe event who spoke of outreach to the community, not just the D/s & M/s community.

this slave just happened to catch an interview with Martina Navitralova on TV where they asked her why she came out of the closet. after all, she was a fantastic tennis player, what difference did it make??? she replied that she felt that it was important that people in society put a face to the struggle of acceptance with non-traditional sexuality, not that it would change who she was if they didn't...but that an estimate of 1/3 of all teenage suicides occur due to conflicts with innate sexuality and society's more's, so she saw it as something positive she could do to help others.

personally, this slave believes society's insistance on dragging everyone non-consensually into it's puritanical repressive kink really sucks, and if it weren't for people coming out of their closets and demanding NOT to be labelled mentally ill for their sexual proclivities it would make it even worse for the folks who wish to remain in theirs.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 67

RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/26/2006 9:49:02 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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I have no problem with people belonging to these groups, but I also have no problem with people NOT belonging to these groups. Personally I would like to go back to devoting my time to my peace activism as something important to me, if people find that advocating sexual freedom is important to them.. Go Them! Actually I was thinking about coming out of the closet myself as my academic career progresses and my son is grown with his own life, but that is up to my Daddy, as I would be outing him too...To each their own.. that is the whole point of the thread

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 68

RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/26/2006 9:58:27 AM

juliaoceania

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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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I wanted to add something, the feminist movement also made huge strides in giving women sexual freedom, It gave women more freedom in many ways. Most women my age take this forgranted and act like this was the way it always was (even more so for women a decade younger than myself). They do not want to be labelled feminists, they do not work for causes like the equal rights amenment, and women still have not completed the fight to be safe from abuse in this society or equal pay for equal work, yet most women do not join NOW.

That is probably what you see here, many people enjoying sexual freedom without the desire to advocate for more.... the community has made strides with declassifying WIITWD from being deviant to being acceptable in mental health communities...the fight for sexual freedom continues, not all of us are warriors

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 9/26/2006 10:00:02 AM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 69

RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/26/2006 10:23:46 AM

agirl

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While others may feel moved to *speak out* and be heard about their desired choices, I simply have never wish to be *spoken for*. I represent myself the way I want to be represented.

I have no wish to be *Loud and Proud*, I'm not restricted in any way and don't have any desire to beat my drum about the way I live. It just doesn't seem to be a big deal at all to me. If it became a problem and I felt *moved* to make some kind of stance......I'd STILL be representing myself and no-one else.

I don't see the rest of the world as *vanilla*.... everyone has flavour and colour different to mine even in bdsm.

agirl

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)

Post #: 70

RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/26/2006 10:30:35 AM

agirl

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There is a place for the *small voice*...quietly but purposely living life in the way chosen. That voice can be as great as any battle cry.

agirl

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 71

RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/26/2006 11:20:39 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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Yes agirl, a small voice is sometimes louder than all the rest, I am thinking of Rosa Parks... she didn't yell, she just refused to move to the back of the bus...

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 72

RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/26/2006 5:05:24 PM

ShiftedJewel

Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

While others may feel moved to *speak out* and be heard about their desired choices, I simply have never wish to be *spoken for*. I represent myself the way I want to be represented.

I have no wish to be *Loud and Proud*, I'm not restricted in any way and don't have any desire to beat my drum about the way I live. It just doesn't seem to be a big deal at all to me. If it became a problem and I felt *moved* to make some kind of stance......I'd STILL be representing myself and no-one else.

I don't see the rest of the world as *vanilla*.... everyone has flavour and colour different to mine even in bdsm.

agirl

That's all well and good but there are people out there that want someone to take the flack, jump through all the hoops and take all the risks because for what ever reason they are unable to do it for themselves. That's my issue. Personally I couldn't care less who doesn't want to be represented in some way or another and that they want to represent themselves... go for it! The problem are those people that do everything they can to stifle any growth, to down play the importance of protecting ourselves from bigoted law-makers and to dispel the myths held by people ignorant of wiitwd. I'm sure there are a lot of people in this and many other lifestyles that are just fine keeping it to themselves, doing everything possible to keep from drawing attention to themselves and will be happy living in that private euphoria... until it blows up in their face. I'm sure there still are quite a few in the gay/lesbian lifestyle that are quite content keeping their little secret too. What ever works for them. But there are also too many that are being victimized because of their choice of lifestyle, people that are loosing custody of saplings, loosing jobs and being disowned by family members, churches and friends because the secret is out and no one wants to stand and DEFINE it for those that don't understand. So if you choose to do it with a small voice then more power to you because every voice counts.

Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 73

RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/26/2006 6:11:16 PM

Frank01

Posts: 270
Joined: 9/7/2006
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I do things the way that work for me-anyone else's don't matter.

(in reply to twicehappy)

Post #: 74

RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/26/2006 8:29:05 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I love it when he interupts me when I am talking and will not let me finish.. it makes me all squishy and submissive for some reason... I know... I am a freak...hee he

What I tend to do is to shout "HEY HEY HEY" at the top of my lungs, and when she responds "Yes Daddy?" I ask her to finish
what she was saying.

But that is just me and I could be wrong.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 75

RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/27/2006 7:17:24 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

While others may feel moved to *speak out* and be heard about their desired choices, I simply have never wish to be *spoken for*. I represent myself the way I want to be represented.

I have no wish to be *Loud and Proud*, I'm not restricted in any way and don't have any desire to beat my drum about the way I live. It just doesn't seem to be a big deal at all to me. If it became a problem and I felt *moved* to make some kind of stance......I'd STILL be representing myself and no-one else.

I don't see the rest of the world as *vanilla*.... everyone has flavour and colour different to mine even in bdsm.

agirl

That's all well and good but there are people out there that want someone to take the flack, jump through all the hoops and take all the risks because for what ever reason they are unable to do it for themselves. That's my issue. Personally I couldn't care less who doesn't want to be represented in some way or another and that they want to represent themselves... go for it! The problem are those people that do everything they can to stifle any growth, to down play the importance of protecting ourselves from bigoted law-makers and to dispel the myths held by people ignorant of wiitwd. I'm sure there are a lot of people in this and many other lifestyles that are just fine keeping it to themselves, doing everything possible to keep from drawing attention to themselves and will be happy living in that private euphoria... until it blows up in their face. I'm sure there still are quite a few in the gay/lesbian lifestyle that are quite content keeping their little secret too. What ever works for them. But there are also too many that are being victimized because of their choice of lifestyle, people that are loosing custody of saplings, loosing jobs and being disowned by family members, churches and friends because the secret is out and no one wants to stand and DEFINE it for those that don't understand. So if you choose to do it with a small voice then more power to you because every voice counts.

Jewel

The reason I prefer to represent myself is because that's ALL I'm qualified to do.

People keep things to themselves for many reasons, not necessarily out of shame or the threat of persecution. Some are private people in other aspects of their lives too and prefer things that way. The way I live isn't a secret to those that know me but I have no desire to *educate* anyone unless they ask for it. It's up to each individual how they deal with their choices and the risks that may be involved.

Ignorance abounds.......and I choose if and how I deal with that.

agirl

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)

Post #: 76

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