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RE: Who would you rather have as the most powerful nation? - 9/26/2006 1:24:51 PM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		the EU as an entity isnt very cohesive. it would not have the unity for very long to be a superpower.  the components of the EU are quirky- very regionalistic. it seems very easy to rub them the wrong way- when not aware of the subtleties. [imo]

bush has been a wake up call for any reasonable man/woman. do a double take- come again, ??

interesting posts on this tread.  specially teh boy girl ratio, very thought provoking. thanks!!


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RE: Who would you rather have as the most powerful nation? - 9/26/2006 1:28:33 PM   
toservez


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Status: offline 		Actually China's government is extremely progressive and liberal for it's history. Sure it needs vast improvements on human rights and compared to Western societies it does not measure up but they are making big strides. I have been to China and you can literally see the money getting down to the people. The big worry is not if China's government continues as it is going (Very much pro capitalism) but if a back lash or significant change occurs and they have all this money and resources. It is not the current govenrment  as much that scares Taiwanese, it is the potential future government.

Of course the world wants to see the U.S. less powerful. If you lived in Sweeden you would probably vote for Sweeden to be the most powerful. My concern right now is that the Bush rule is uniting countries against the U.S. and I do not just mean Middle East ones, and this will really hurt the U.S. badly in the long run. The world has moved on from the respect the biggest stick.


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RE: Who would you rather have as the most powerful nation? - 9/26/2006 1:31:45 PM   
Level


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Status: offline 		But is the money getting to the millions and millions that live in the outer provinces? And is it getting there fast enough to replace the social controls and welfare that once propped things up?

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RE: Who would you rather have as the most powerful nation? - 9/26/2006 1:35:32 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn
A nation must choose ... be popular, or be powerful.
No power will remain without the people agreeing to it...  I believe everyone will eventually open their eyes and realize most commonfolk are being screwed, and they will revolt against the current trend.   M

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RE: Who would you rather have as the most powerful nation? - 9/26/2006 1:36:12 PM   
MASTERRocker


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Status: offline 		Sweden - free health care, neutral politics, fair judicial system, and  beautiful women...... 'grins'

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RE: Who would you rather have as the most powerful nation? - 9/26/2006 1:39:39 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MASTERRocker
Sweden - free health care, neutral politics, fair judicial system, and  beautiful women...... 'grins'
I agree.
I dated a gentleman from Finland who said his country is like that, including heavily invested in free//top of the line education for all.   M

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""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

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RE: Who would you rather have as the most powerful nation? - 9/26/2006 1:40:55 PM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn
A nation must choose ... be popular, or be powerful.
No power will remain without the people agreeing to it...  I believe everyone will eventually open their eyes and realize most commonfolk are being screwed, and they will revolt against the current trend.   M


Hi M ..... I hope you're right. I think people's annoyance with "politics as usual" from the Democrats and Republicans will build to a high enough level to get some change going. Maybe they'll even make me King....

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: Who would you rather have as the most powerful nation? - 9/26/2006 1:42:20 PM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MASTERRocker

Sweden - free health care, neutral politics, fair judicial system, and  beautiful women...... 'grins'


Nothing is free, Rocker; not from the government, anyway.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: Who would you rather have as the most powerful nation? - 9/26/2006 1:43:37 PM   
toservez


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

But is the money getting to the millions and millions that live in the outer provinces? And is it getting there fast enough to replace the social controls and welfare that once propped things up?


It is not getting there as fast as the major cities but it has gotten their a little bit and you can actually see the spread from driving deep in a  large downtown  to the country. The outer provinces have never relied strongly on the government to survive. China is still mostly propped up by it's culture and family responsibility on that end. The bigger question might be what happens when the business leaders care more about profit than creating jobs. My experiences in China is that they first try to make jobs up rather then financially decide if the job is actually needed.

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RE: Who would you rather have as the most powerful nation? - 9/26/2006 1:47:19 PM   
Level


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Status: offline 		Thanks for your answer .
 
Now, I wonder what kind of problems the "make a job whether it's needed or not" mentality will create? If not controlled just right, that could be as disabling as "profit over people".

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: Who would you rather have as the most powerful nation? - 9/26/2006 1:47:37 PM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: toservez

Actually China's government is extremely progressive and liberal for it's history. Sure it needs vast improvements on human rights and compared to Western societies it does not measure up but they are making big strides. I have been to China and you can literally see the money getting down to the people. The big worry is not if China's government continues as it is going (Very much pro capitalism) but if a back lash or significant change occurs and they have all this money and resources. It is not the current govenrment  as much that scares Taiwanese, it is the potential future government.

Of course the world wants to see the U.S. less powerful. If you lived in Sweeden you would probably vote for Sweeden to be the most powerful. My concern right now is that the Bush rule is uniting countries against the U.S. and I do not just mean Middle East ones, and this will really hurt the U.S. badly in the long run. The world has moved on from the respect the biggest stick.




group dynamics would make it a given that the rest will band together to check the US. however the US has covert activity all over- at the moment the compnoent peices self interests would win out in the end, over the "team b"- if the stakes were higher- well it would have to be much higher in my estimation before the self greed would loose out to the commen "?good"- or a team b.

greed is not exclusive to the US. 

where is the end of the rope? no one really knows. not for now. ild suppose when global resources are very strained- we may then know.


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RE: Who would you rather have as the most powerful nation? - 9/26/2006 1:51:42 PM   
Archer


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Status: offline 		That's where I was about to go with the discussion Level.

Makework can only be afforded for so long before it causes a collapse of course when looking at it in a national sense I guess for  long time the Rule of large numbers would come into play. Since you're pooling o some extent when the government subidizes an industy to that extent.

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RE: Who would you rather have as the most powerful nation? - 9/26/2006 1:53:04 PM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Archer, I think the EU could do a good job (not necessarily better), but as you alluded to, the in-fighting there could bring it all down. I'm not sure there will be an EU in a couple of decades.


I'm pretty hopeful about the EU if we can get through the next 20-25 years when eldest daughter's generation will be taking power. She speaks four languages and most of her friends speak at least three and come from all over Europe. Their national identity is not as strong as my generations and they see themselves as European first and foremost. I don't think that is the same in Britain though where national identity seems a lot stronger and there is a bigger resistence to integrate with Europe. Blair hasn't been helpful in that process but the EU is stronger than Britain and can exist without it but it can't exist without France or Germany, though France is going to have get off its 'I'm so superior' horse.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 9/26/2006 1:54:24 PM >

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RE: Who would you rather have as the most powerful nation? - 9/26/2006 1:58:44 PM   
Archer


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Status: offline 		A stronger EU would make for an interesting time, But the troubling issue for it in my mind today is the massive influxs of non assimilating Muslims.

While the Europeans are identifying as European first, the Muslims seem to be stuck in the last millenium thinking where Religion comes before nation let alone any EU Identity.


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RE: Who would you rather have as the most powerful nation? - 9/26/2006 1:59:14 PM   
Mercnbeth


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The integrity of their position earns them consideration. Their pragmatic positions regarding religion, politics and intolerance for contrary opinions insures that all under their influence would work toward the common good of the world wide society they would insist upon. Rules, and more importantly, the universal enforcement of rules would eliminate issues that plague us now. Censorship would no longer be "arbitrary". EEO/AA would be non issues. No more debate about the abortion issue. The roads less congested with no woman drivers. The only Republicans would the "Republican Guard". Sure, pork futures would plunge, but they could be replaced by goats. The thread of international terrorism would be dramatically reduced.

I imagine this would be a godsend to those who disdain the US for providing an environment where open debate and discussion is encouraged.

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RE: Who would you rather have as the most powerful nation? - 9/26/2006 1:59:47 PM   
Archer


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Status: offline 		Not that we seem to be doing much better here in the US with our own immigration and non assimilation troubles.

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RE: Who would you rather have as the most powerful nation? - 9/26/2006 2:01:12 PM   
Archer


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Status: offline 		Could you be a little MORE sarcastic Mercandbeth??? LOL

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RE: Who would you rather have as the most powerful nation? - 9/26/2006 2:02:27 PM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

While the Europeans are identifying as European first, the Muslims seem to be stuck in the last millenium thinking where Religion comes before nation let alone any EU Identity.



Apart from Turks from western Turkey, that is a real problem. Western Turks are the only muslims that view themselves as European first and muslim second.

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RE: Who would you rather have as the most powerful nation? - 9/26/2006 2:03:40 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

Could you be a little MORE sarcastic Mercandbeth??? LOL


Archer,
Just got back from a REALLY fun trip! It may take a few more days to really turn it on again.

Edited to add:
I was going to pick Mexico, but that would have just been silly.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 9/26/2006 2:10:15 PM >

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RE: Who would you rather have as the most powerful nation? - 9/26/2006 2:04:16 PM   
WyrdRich


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Status: offline 		    I found the sarcasm level to be just about perfect Archer.

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