A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ?

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Voltare -> A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 1:31:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL:MASTERRocker Again; open communication, respect and trust labels are nothing... the heart is everything "A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit to His slave. A slave can only submit if she can master her Master's heart." (So, I came across this bold statement in another thread HERE and while it caused a little stir, I didn't want to hijack that thread.) I strongly disagree with this statement. If I allow my heart to submit to my slave, I feel that the balance between the romance (that makes our relationship healthy and passionate) and the Ds element (that provides structure and strength) would be way off. Our relationship is strictly monogamous, but I feel the moment I start sacrificing or setting aside the structure that a Ds relationship provides, my slave would be left floating in the wind, and feel less 'owned.' I think she would start questioning her slavery, her identity, and ultimately turn it back against me. Not to mention the constant self-questioning I would end up doing 'if I pull too hard, am I going to hurt her? God, I love her so much that I can't bear to hurt her... I'll just stop spanking her.....) Nope. Our relationship works, because I know pulling her hair hard shows her she's valuable to me. Slapping her face is our way of showing she is special. Kissing her with fire then calling her a cunt - MY cunt - tells her she belongs with me. Obviously, the rough play is balanced by more mundane gentle kisses, holding hands, dancing slow, and the morning "mmmffppp... baby.. mm.. coffee... zzzzz." As a slave, she submits utterly. As her owner, I own, utterly. Watering it down might make it more politically correct. Fuck politically correct. Stephan

LaTigresse -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 1:36:30 PM)
Whatever works for you. To me, seeing someone locking themself in that mindset shows they are fearful and insecure, afraid to give their heart. In my opinion, giving love makes us stronger. I certainly would not judge a Master that was strong enough to love and still master his slave. Rather I would aspire to be more like them.

Jasmyn -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 1:42:22 PM)
Nice post Voltare ... and unequivocally agree ..am so over the bland homogenised d/s that's been shoved down peoples throat

raiken -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 1:44:26 PM)
Perhaps you are saying something i am misunderstanding. It seems to me that what you are saying is that you can't submit out of love for your girl, without neglecting the D/s structure? Is that what you are saying?

Frank01 -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 1:47:58 PM)
When one allows emotion to corrupt a thing that someone came to you for..........it may well be a death knell for the relationship. People are often attracted to a certain vision of someone-when they change that, how they feel about that person changes as well. I have seen more than one sub leave her dom for "going nilla" on her.

Jasmyn -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 1:51:17 PM)
Raiken ... love is there, it's just not as traditional, of course he loves his submissive, adores her, lusts after her, wants to bend her over and show her some lovin' ... but a d/s relationship is a minefield ... there have been screeds of threads over the years CM has being alive and kicking ..of dominants losing their desire to dominate when they fall in love ... read that as 'falls in love' ... not 'loves' ... it's a subtle difference .. but 'falling in love' causes it's own head and heartache ... a dominant can begin to second guess what they are doing and why...concerning themselves with a desire to not loose this person .. part of dominance is indifference, being able to remain indifferent, to remain decisive ... love makes them indecisive ... which isn't conducive to holding control

LaTigresse -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 1:53:16 PM)
Ahh, now I understand why you answered as you did!! Falling in love versus loving. I had not thought about the distinction enough.

Frank01 -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 1:54:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jasmyn Raiken ... love is there, it's just not as traditional, of course he loves his submissive, adores her, lusts after her, wants to bend her over and show her some lovin' ... but a d/s relationship is a minefield ... there have been screeds of threads over the years CM has being alive and kicking ..of dominants losing their desire to dominate when they fall in love ... read that as 'falls in love' ... not 'loves' ... it's a subtle difference .. but 'falling in love' causes it's own head and heartache ... a dominant can begin to second guess what they are doing and why...concerning themselves with a desire to not loose this person .. part of dominance is indifference, being able to remain indifferent, to remain decisive ... love makes them indecisive ... which isn't conducive to holding control One of the tenets of power is that one can never fear losing a sub-more than they fear losing thier self respect.

raiken -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 1:54:45 PM)
Why would one equate submitting of the heart, as being vanilla, and why does it have to be either heart felt love or the other? Why can't there be both love and the D/s structure? i know many who have both. Maybe i am missing something here...kind of dense today anyway from no sleep and being overworked. *grin Could not Mastery be the blanket of the heart connection, like they are sort of layered beneath one another, with the over all being D/s first, than love beneath it. Isn't that what some folks refer to as having it all, in a well rounded relationship? Just trying to understand and be clear.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 1:54:46 PM)
quote: Our relationship is strictly monogamous, but I feel the moment I start sacrificing or setting aside the structure that a Ds relationship provides, my slave would be left floating in the wind, and feel less 'owned.' I guess that works for you, but for me ALL long term relationships require some sacrifice- of time, of energy, of selfish priorities. In balancing between long term goals and mutual fulfillment, sacrifice becomes inevitable. I also don't think that "submitting your heart" to your slave necessarily sets aside any of the structure involved. quote: As a slave, she submits utterly. As her owner, I own, utterly. Watering it down might make it more politically correct. Fuck politically correct. Stephan I fail to see how it's watered down. Your way isn't "truer" or "deeper" than anothers, it's just what works for you. Now, I think the statement itself is rather trite and inapplicable as most proverbs are in the real world. If I ever hear the term "slave heart" again it will be too soon.

Frank01 -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 1:57:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: raiken Why would one equate submitting of the heart, as being vanilla, and why does it have to be either heart felt love or the other? Why can't there be both love and the D/s structure? i know many who have both. Maybe i am missing something here...kind of dense today anyway from no sleep and being overworked. *grin Could not Mastery be the blanket of the heart connection, like they are sort of layered beneath one another, with the over all being D/s first, than love beneath it. Isn't that what some folks refer to as having it all, in a well rounded relationship? Just trying to understand and be clear. if you desire to have a power structure,it's a good idea for the slave to be hopelessly in love with you. It gives you emotional leverage over her. On the dominant side, you have to avoid being leveraged-so you have to maintain a degree of emotional self control that lets you use YOUR leverage-rather than losing your grip on it.

MASTERRocker -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 1:58:36 PM)
WOW!! I appreciate all the comments - but My Principles and Practices are not going to change. I am My Slaves best friend; and they have remained Mine. To Love a slave is not to fall in Love with them. Very different. 'It is better to command Love and Respect; than to demand Love and Respect.' MASTER Rocker

juliaoceania -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 2:00:24 PM)
quote: If I allow my heart to submit to my slave, I feel that the balance between the romance (that makes our relationship healthy and passionate) and the Ds element (that provides structure and strength) would be way off. Some of us do not need to be structured to feel submissive quote: Our relationship is strictly monogamous, but I feel the moment I start sacrificing or setting aside the structure that a Ds relationship provides, my slave would be left floating in the wind, and feel less 'owned.' That may be true for you, but your truths are not my Dom's truths, and my truths are not your slave's truths. quote: I think she would start questioning her slavery, her identity, and ultimately turn it back against me. Thinking people question their identity, if something is good and right it can stand questioning and hold up, only lies do not like examination quote: Not to mention the constant self-questioning I would end up doing 'if I pull too hard, am I going to hurt her? God, I love her so much that I can't bear to hurt her... I'll just stop spanking her.....) Spanking is something he does because we love it, if he did not spank me I would think he did not care...lol. If spanking is a discipline thing and not a pleasure thing for you, I love my child more than my life, and that is why I discipline him. quote: Nope. Our relationship works, because I know pulling her hair hard shows her she's valuable to me. Slapping her face is our way of showing she is special. Kissing her with fire then calling her a cunt - MY cunt - tells her she belongs with me. If that works for you, good for you! What works for MASTERrocker is different, no value judgment there. Personally that sort of treatment does not inspire my submissive feelings, but others are different from me, not worse or better, just different. quote: Obviously, the rough play is balanced by more mundane gentle kisses, holding hands, dancing slow, and the morning "mmmffppp... baby.. mm.. coffee... zzzzz." As a slave, she submits utterly. As her owner, I own, utterly. Watering it down might make it more politically correct. Fuck politically correct. It is not balanced in other people's dynamics... so it is not obvious to anyone, some people think showing a slave affection is beneath their domliness, and it works for them.. to them YOU would be politically correct and watered down... to each their own. I have to ask if there are insecurities with how you live your dynamic? You seemed to be threatened by romantic and loving D/s. It does not work for you, that is not your thing, fine, but it works for many of us to be in loving D/s relationships where the dom does not feel it lessens his dominance to love and value his submissive and make her a priority... Perhaps you just felt that someone with the attitude that his heart was sbmitting to his submissive was questioning the way you live? If that is the case, we all do what works for us, it doesn't matter how others see it.

Jasmyn -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 2:01:12 PM)
When I was subbing with a switch partner and doing the monogamous thing and greener than a green thing to BDSM I struggled with said switchy boyfriend holding back in scenes and in day to day life ... in day to day life he didn't want control ...even when we had set a time frame for a role switch ... so that's not really relevant to the thread ... but in scenes he held back from doing what he really wanted to do, even though he knew I probably be okay with it, because in the morning it wasn't flower sub girl her was dealing with, but flower the woman he loved and lived with, his girlfriend ... and my complaints to longtime fem dom friend was to get over my monogamy trip and be okay with him playing with others ... without the emotional ties he would be freer to explore his own mind, his own power, his own trip ...and in return I get a hot switchy dom who knows his stuff, because he was pursuing BDSM for his own pleasure ...rather than mine ... hope that makes sense

Frank01 -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 2:01:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MASTERRocker WOW!! I appreciate all the comments - but My Principles and Practices are not going to change. I am My Slaves best friend; and they have remained Mine. To Love a slave is not to fall in Love with them. Very different. 'It is better to command Love and Respect; than to demand Love and Respect.' MASTER Rocker I prefer friends as well-how else could it be? But you let someone down when you stop being her MASTER as well. It stops being what she signed up for-and no one likes bait and switch tactics.

raiken -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 2:07:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Frank01 quote: ORIGINAL: Jasmyn Raiken ... love is there, it's just not as traditional, of course he loves his submissive, adores her, lusts after her, wants to bend her over and show her some lovin' ... but a d/s relationship is a minefield ... there have been screeds of threads over the years CM has being alive and kicking ..of dominants losing their desire to dominate when they fall in love ... read that as 'falls in love' ... not 'loves' ... it's a subtle difference .. but 'falling in love' causes it's own head and heartache ... a dominant can begin to second guess what they are doing and why...concerning themselves with a desire to not loose this person .. part of dominance is indifference, being able to remain indifferent, to remain decisive ... love makes them indecisive ... which isn't conducive to holding control One of the tenets of power is that one can never fear losing a sub-more than they fear losing thier self respect. Ah okay so you are saying that (the act of falling in) love makes some of us do crazy uncontrollable things at times, but then after that initial falling part (high) wears off, there had better be something real and tangible beneath it also. As in the principle of love or something akin to that. Else it was just a temp high in the first place. It is true that some folks may not be able to maintain control and manage who they are when falling in love, cuz it hits them like a strong drug. i can see how for these type folks self respect could be an issue. i see this as more of a character or personality trait or difference. As each person handles that experience of falling in love differently, thanks for another view, interesting to consider.

juliaoceania -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 2:10:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MASTERRocker 'It is better to command Love and Respect; than to demand Love and Respect.' MASTER Rocker That is true from this subs point of view... I want to be inspired and motivated to submit to him.. he doesn't demand anything from me (at least not yet)

MASTERRocker -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 2:12:17 PM)
No; there is a time and place for everything. When two consensual adults agree to enter into a relationship (Master/slave) I always have a timeline of what is expected and agreed upon. Example - a university student taking post ed here = 2 to 4 years. It is not a infinate thing; but when they move back to practice in the hometowns or cities - I remain friends, a confidant, an advisor - but no longer their Master

Frank01 -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 2:14:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: raiken quote: ORIGINAL: Frank01 quote: ORIGINAL: Jasmyn Raiken ... love is there, it's just not as traditional, of course he loves his submissive, adores her, lusts after her, wants to bend her over and show her some lovin' ... but a d/s relationship is a minefield ... there have been screeds of threads over the years CM has being alive and kicking ..of dominants losing their desire to dominate when they fall in love ... read that as 'falls in love' ... not 'loves' ... it's a subtle difference .. but 'falling in love' causes it's own head and heartache ... a dominant can begin to second guess what they are doing and why...concerning themselves with a desire to not loose this person .. part of dominance is indifference, being able to remain indifferent, to remain decisive ... love makes them indecisive ... which isn't conducive to holding control One of the tenets of power is that one can never fear losing a sub-more than they fear losing thier self respect. Ah okay so you are saying that (the act of falling in) love makes some of us do crazy uncontrollable things at times, but then after that initial falling part (high) wears off, there had better be something real and tangible beneath it also. As in the principle of love or something akin to that. Else it was just a temp high in the first place. It is true that some folks may not be able to maintain control and manage who they are when falling in love, cuz it hits them like a strong drug. i can see how for these type folks self respect could be an issue. i see this as more of a character or personality trait or difference. As each person handles that experience of falling in love differently, thanks for another view, interesting to consider. Some people find more in the satisfaction of positive compatability than they do emotionally. It's more a feeling of contentment than a hormonal insanity........ But I guess you would have to be there to understand how structure cradles that, and provides protection for it.

Voltare -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 2:14:57 PM)
Sheesh, I didn't think this thread would grow THIS fast! Ok, general comments: I said what I did, because I do love my girl. The expression of that love isn't one of apology, but one of demand. It works both ways, as we are both strong people. We both sacrifice, that's not the issue at all. What I was saying was I refuse to sacrifice the foundations of our relationship, because of emotion. If I cease to adequately function in my role as Dominant because I am afraid of damaging the emotional aspect, than the emotional aspect will be doomed. If I cease to adequately express or nurture the love between us, than the Ds role becomes dominant. They are a self-fulfilling circle, that go hand in hand. As a result, I do not 'submit' anything - I give all I have, just as she does, and together we make the most of ourselves with it. (Frank stated this well.) LA, I wasn't trying to coin any proverbs, I'm not as charismatic as JC. I see what you mean, and I don't mean to imply that I don't give all of my love to my slave. Rather, I was writing against the implication that if I do not somehow elevate the importance of my love above the importance of our Ds dynamic, than somehow our relationship is somehow lacking. I speak in first person, but obviously this applies in a general sense. And no, my way isn't better - going back to the crux, there are lots of ways for a relationship to work. I don't feel my way had to work the way the original quote suggested. julia, Nope, no insecurities here. What works for you, works for you. If you read my post again, it was entirely in first person, relating what works great for me. It might work great for others, it might not. The implication of the original quote was "A Master is only a Master if " and I was simply posting in opposition. Rocker, Am not trying to suggest your way is 'wrong.' I'm glad it works for you, and I am also best friends with my slave, and I can't imagine it any other way. I simply don't agree with the way you phrased your expectation of the dynamic - it wouldn't work for me. Take care.

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