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RE: DM'ing....for Master's only???? - 9/28/2006 8:44:40 AM

MisPandora

Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank01

He's excercising his perogative over what he owns-deal with it.

Who gives a rat's ass what he lets his slave do? It extends far beyond his little piece of property, Frank.

He's saying that:
1) subs can't DM.
2) females can't DM.

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to Frank01)

Post #: 61

RE: DM'ing....for Master's only???? - 9/28/2006 8:46:56 AM

MrDiscipline44

Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline

But, Pandora, he is not preventing subs or women from DM'ing. Other then his own property that is. So it actually hasn't extended beyond his control of his property.

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to MisPandora)

Post #: 62

RE: DM'ing....for Master's only???? - 9/28/2006 8:47:35 AM

Frank01

Posts: 270
Joined: 9/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MisPandora

quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank01

He's excercising his perogative over what he owns-deal with it.

Who gives a rat's ass what he lets his slave do? It extends far beyond his little piece of property, Frank.

He's saying that:
1) subs can't DM.
2) females can't DM.

And who gives a rat's ass what he thinks? I can think that airplanes shouldn't fly-does that mean I just grounded them all? Why be stupid over something equally stupid?

(in reply to MisPandora)

Post #: 63

RE: DM'ing....for Master's only???? - 9/28/2006 8:49:58 AM

Frank01

Posts: 270
Joined: 9/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

But, Pandora, he is not preventing subs or women from DM'ing. Other then his own property that is. So it actually hasn't extended beyond his control of his property.

Exactly what I was saying. But I think this is now more about an overeaction to a gender bias, than one man having control over another person.

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)

Post #: 64

RE: DM'ing....for Master's only???? - 9/28/2006 8:59:19 AM

MrDiscipline44

Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline

I agree. And I think that this all was set up to be that way. (No offense erin.) This immediately became another "Dom Bashing" thread. The OP has been repeatedly taken out of context to asinine proportions showing that many here don't have very good reading comprehension skills.

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to Frank01)

Post #: 65

RE: DM'ing....for Master's only???? - 9/28/2006 9:00:04 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

Thank you to all who have responded. I am glad that most people seemed to understand that the issue I was attempting to discuss is that of how people feel about subs/slaves/females as DM's and not about the rights of any particular Master to assert control over their property. And for the record....neither of my friends are members here so there is no "immature" attempt to pillory anyone. I have spoken my feelings on the matter with both of them and I don't need a message board to make my points for me, I'm pretty capable of expressing my own opinions.....liked or agreed with or not.

When my friend and I had the conversation I must say that my most immediate response was along the lines of many here......sexist. But then I thought further to see if there were indeed any merits to his opinion. I realized that while I don't believe that gender or role are what categorically defines a good DM....I don't always live by those thoughts. To be honest, I put more thought into the subject and fractioned it in more ways than I probably ever have previously. I thought primarily about the role issue as I do not think that the gender portion of his argument has any bearing....but he is welcome to own that opinion. The things that came to mind have mostly been covered here. Things like the possibility that a submissive may not wish to take a strong stance to a Dominant or also as MisPandora said the possibility of a sub "trancing" out. I also thought about the possibility that a Dominant or Master as a DM may allow a scene to continue to the level he thinks is appropriate based upon his own experiences rather than basing his decisions upon the situation unfolding before him.

But what I have come to realize in the end is that I DO tend to feel more comfortable when a Dominant/Master is DM'ing my scenes. I think that this may have more to do with the fact that I simply know more experienced D types than S types. There are a few exceptions....sub/slaves who I know well and who know me well, that I would be entirely comfortable having them DM. But if I were at an event where I was not well known, I would feel more comfortable with a D type.

I also realized that when I was with my ex Master, the issue really was very unimportant to me. I trusted him and whoever was monitoring the scene really had little bearing. It is since our split though, that I have been more selective, if you will, of who stands in attendance. It most likely is a result of the "lack" of deep emotional ties I may have for a play partner....although I don't ever just play with someone that I don't have a fairly deep or long term connection with. It is not the same bond or trust that develops within the context of a long term relationship though.

Now these thoughts may mean that I am prejudiced...but they are honest thoughts....and ones that actually surprised me when I realized them under my scrutiny.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 66

RE: DM'ing....for Master's only???? - 9/28/2006 9:06:41 AM

Frank01

Posts: 270
Joined: 9/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

I agree. And I think that this all was set up to be that way. (No offense erin.) This immediately became another "Dom Bashing" thread. The OP has been repeatedly taken out of context to asinine proportions showing that many here don't have very good reading comprehension skills.

I just saw it as an inability to ponder a topic in an objective sense. And Erin? Couching this in terms more polite to the dom in question could have avoided the majority of the bashing in this thread.

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)

Post #: 67

RE: DM'ing....for Master's only???? - 9/28/2006 11:03:41 AM

NastyDaddy

Posts: 957
Joined: 9/8/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom
fuckwad

You are a fine example of a closed mind, perfect for baiting and juicing as was done here in the OP. Your reply was targeted directly at me, and not the OP whatsoever, but the ignorant judgmentalism follows in your next reply post where you got in your slam on the master's decision making regarding his slave.

A closed mind is easily triggered into a rantful loudmouthed gender/role bashing blowhard... pile it on sucker, you got sucked into this shit thread too, which tells me a good deal about you too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom
I am sorry but this whole thread is a pile of dung. Look at how many groups are held together by submissives. Most dominants in the scene are either wimps or blowhards, neither of which is a good trait in a DM. One needs a calm level headed none confrontative but firm demeanor. In my opinion and experience, submissives make FAR better DMs than dominants. Most dominants are petty control freaks (like the idiot master the OP is speaking of) and have ZERO business telling others what to do but become DMs so they CAN tell others what to do.

You're a little late on the obeservation of the whole thread being shit... but yet you were still quick to be led into bashing as was the orchestration of the thread. How many times did I ask why the question of DM role/gender could not be posed in the thread without all the juice... the bias towards a dominant who has yet stated his feelings or what his thoughts here... you operated just fine off erin's crystal ball didn't you crap, lol... duh, which way did they go boyz, let's gettum.

He (the master) was not given any position at all except for the positions and thoughts the OP decided to "inform" us with. I might add she rather easily convinced most of you that her crystal ball reports accurately as to where his heartfelt position on this matter stands.... she speaks for this master... this master has not spoken for himself yet.... so her feelings of his feelings are what are being debated here. I've pointed that out numerous times and that makes me a "fuckwad", that's priceless LOL!

Some people need a place to bash and fling generalizations (to whine)... some people are accidents waiting for a place to happen... such as an unbiased thread like this to jump in and regurgitate for self relief.

Many are so FUNNY in your quick snap-judgmental outbursts... some of you have brains and used them, while others resorted to namecalling and knee-jerk judgmental lables... with little (if any) information to actually work with other than one person's personal bias.

mistoferin, your "curious" thread seemed to tap into quite a few crystal balls and Kreskins didn't it.... way too funny!

_____________________________

"You may be right, I may be crazy... but I may just be the lunatic you're looking for!"

(in reply to CrappyDom)

Post #: 68

RE: DM'ing....for Master's only???? - 9/28/2006 12:00:02 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

Hmm.. I don't really find this a very amusing thread at all. Rather surprised you see so much humor in bigotry and sexism, but whatever. Being tolerant is the PC thing to do these days. My response was based on the actual OP taken only at face value. It could just have easily been a hypothetical situation and I'd have had the same stance. It's the same stance I've always had. Whether or not Erin has accurately presented the views of the man in question is besides the point. Despite your belief this is a 'dom bashing thread' by some of us, for me, it's most certainly not. I wouldn't care if it was a man, woman, child, vanilla, gay or whatever because for me, it's a bash on bigotry, ignorance and prejudiced, gender and orientation not with standing.

Reminds me of being around my grandfather before he died. I've had enough of it to last a lifetime already. You go ahead and be amused by it if that makes you happy. I'll continue to voice my opinion that such is not only wrong, but dangerous thinking.

Maybe it stems from being of mixed heritage and having one of my mixes being of a race that my grandfather absolutely despised while at the same time he professed to love me. Then my kids came along, even more of a melting pot than I am and knowing how much he hated their ethnicity isn't something I can just har har har away. I see that same sort of prejudice in the opening post. Whether or not Erin had worded it differently, been kinder or gentler to the guy in question is the thing that wouldn't make a rats ass bit of difference. Bigotry can't be hidden away under clean clothes and a parasol. It's way to ugly for that.

There are some people who think it's OK to live and let live, mind their own business, not cause waves just because someone thinks in a certain way.. as long as they only 'think' it, it's OK. As long as he's not standing out in front of the classes blocking participants from going in based on their gender or orientation, it's OK. As long as the owner of the cafe doesn't actually tell blacks they have to pay before their meal even if whites don't, it's OK. It's OK to think that a group of people is less than another group, it's OK that color, race, religion or gender should be taken into consideration in forming opinions.

And then there are some people who don't think it's OK because every action starts with the 'thought' of the action.

It's easy to laugh it off and call it all one big joke.. until it's no longer a joke and starts to effect you.

It goes without saying, but obviously YMDV.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to NastyDaddy)

Post #: 69

RE: DM'ing....for Master's only???? - 9/28/2006 12:07:04 PM

Frank01

Posts: 270
Joined: 9/7/2006
Status: offline

Even a bigot has a right to his opinion, whether it's pc of not.

What he does NOT have, is the right to act on it. Erin still set it up to bash a male. Why didn't she say some Domme didn't think MALES should not be dm's instead?

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 70

RE: DM'ing....for Master's only???? - 9/28/2006 12:13:27 PM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank01

Even a bigot has a right to his opinion, whether it's pc of not.

What he does NOT have, is the right to act on it. Erin still set it up to bash a male. Why didn't she say some Domme didn't think MALES should not be dm's instead?

Oh for the love of whatever it is you find holy....I didn't "set it up" as a Domme saying it because THAT IS NOT HOW IT HAPPENED. I related exactly how the conversation took place. You can twist it into whatever in the fuck you like...it isn't going to change what it really is. MOST people seemed to understand what it was about....maybe a couple of you ought to ask yourselves why it is that you can't seem to comprehend it.

< Message edited by mistoferin -- 9/28/2006 12:18:11 PM >

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Frank01)

Post #: 71

RE: DM'ing....for Master's only???? - 9/28/2006 12:17:12 PM

Frank01

Posts: 270
Joined: 9/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank01

Even a bigot has a right to his opinion, whether it's pc of not.

What he does NOT have, is the right to act on it. Erin still set it up to bash a male. Why didn't she say some Domme didn't think MALES should not be dm's instead?

Oh for the love of whatever it is you find holy....I didn't "set it up" as a Domme saying it because THAT IS NOT HOW IT HAPPENED. I related exactly how the conversation took place. You can twist it into whatever in the fuck you like...it isn't going to change what it really is. MOST people seemed to understand what it was about....maybe a couple of you ought to ask yourselves why it is that you can't seem to comrehend it.

Why do you fail to comprehend that we saw a bias in what you posted? You COULD have said How do you feel about sexual bias" rather than "How do you feel about it in relation to this guy?"

Do you THINK about the consequences of what you post?

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 72

RE: DM'ing....for Master's only???? - 9/28/2006 12:46:29 PM

LadyHugs

Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Dear mistoferin, Ladies and Gentlemen;

I came up through the times, where dominant men, thought they were the only 'authority' figures over the dungeon. Dungeon Masters have been around but, no different from Medieval Jailers. That is all Dungeon Masters were back then. Executioner was the torturer and the one who punished.

That said, I can understand why dominants would be deemed more suited for dungeon master/monitors, as you got some dominants that are so full of bull pucks that their Serenity/Depends sag on the floor if there weren't leather diapers holding them in. It takes another dominant that can dish the pucks right back.

However, dominants for dominants sake, does not always qualify them as a dungeon master or dungeon monitor. It makes it terribly tough on slaves who act as monitors in the dungeon, even though they make some DM's look about as effective as air brakes on a turtle. Any slower they have to speed up to stop.

My personal feelings are--anybody who is medically trained has more business being a dungeon monitor than anybody who isn't. But, I will also add, there is more than first aid or medical knowledge that makes a good dungeon monitor. That is good judgement. People can be trained to check dungeon furniture for weaknesses, flaws or such to put it out of service. (I don't see many do that these days). It can be taught what techniques and skills should be allowed or tolerated and what shouldn't. (I don't see many DMs stopping some awful hits by beginners-scary!!!).

There can never be enough Dungeon Monitors. I think the old Dungeon Masters only days are over, when slaves have entered into service due to the lack of people period. Although Dungeon Monitors is more encompassing to all the roles people have in the scene; when properly educated, are masters at what they do.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 73

RE: DM'ing....for Master's only???? - 9/28/2006 12:48:33 PM

LotusSong

Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I was rather surprised though, when she said that her Master wouldn't allow her to take the class because he feels that only Master's can be DM's....and even more surprised to hear that he thinks only MALE Master's can. Any thoughts???

I'm thinking perhaps the Master was concerned that it would cut into their play time while at the dungeon?

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 74

RE: DM'ing....for Master's only???? - 9/28/2006 12:54:48 PM

NastyDaddy

Posts: 957
Joined: 9/8/2004
Status: offline

I'm really sorry to hear about your grandfather, especially his bearing on this now dramatic bullshit biased thread....

Back to my original point... I'm surprised the question was so gift wrapped in bias, period.

I've read it, quoted and highlighted it... and it's still sugary coated and all juiced up in sweet gummy bias, yum!

What I've repeatedly thought was funny was the knee-jerks... the pile on's, the judgments... not one prefaced with "if" the master thinks this way or that way.... yes it's funny so much was assumed by so many posters... but your'e right, in that it is also sad.

_____________________________

"You may be right, I may be crazy... but I may just be the lunatic you're looking for!"

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 75

RE: DM'ing....for Master's only???? - 9/28/2006 2:23:19 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank01

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank01

He's excercising his perogative over what he owns-deal with it.

Again, you have misread what was stated. It is quite clearly stated by the OP and several others that it was not just his opinion that "HIS" sub/slave should not DM, it was his opinion that NO submissive/slave should DM. That is his point of view regarding something that we are all engaged in...D/s and BDSM...and at the point where his POV addresses how things should be for all of us, then his POV becomes fair game.

He has a right to his beliefs. What gives you the right to diss him? It's not as if he can control the outcome.

Sure he has a right to his beliefs. As long as he imposes them on his submissive only, then I won't diss him...I'll give him a big hooray, and a "One True Way" plaque goes out to him. When his opinion is expressed to others as to what should and should not be done, then his opinions become fair game. Disagreeement with someone is not disrespect. I disagree with him. As for my personal opinion of him, that's mine and I've got a right to it. I did not comment on how he practices D/s in his own little world, I commented on his chauvinism in regards to others' practices.

(in reply to Frank01)

Post #: 76

RE: DM'ing....for Master's only???? - 9/28/2006 4:52:50 PM

CrappyDom

Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

Nastydaddy,

The fuckwad I was referring to was the dom referenced in the OP so unless it was you she was referring to then you were not the fuckwad I was referring to.

As for my mind being closed as one of the few here who has run large BDSM groups, owned public dungeons, attended BDSM events where the attendees numbered in the thousands and have played rather widely in a very diverse community, I have some limited experience with both male dominants and DMs.

As someone who has topped men, played with lesbians, bottomed to women, lent my pets out as sexual toys, cuckolded other men, been friends and or lovers with female dommes, been mentored by both men and women, worked hard to build real genuine pansexual events, my mind is about as open as it gets without large squishy grey things falling out.

As for my real or imagined ability to see deeply into people based on very little, you may find it doubtful but those who play with me or read my posts find that I more often than not am right on.

Don't forget, I despise the concept of DMs because I think they become venues to power by the very people who should have none.

So, speaking of judgements based on very little, I think YOUR reaction to this thread is so strong because YOU saw us attacking a position that struck a bit too close to home.

(in reply to NastyDaddy)

Post #: 77

RE: DM'ing....for Master's only???? - 9/28/2006 5:47:00 PM

NastyDaddy

Posts: 957
Joined: 9/8/2004
Status: offline

I observed the thread as a highly biased thread based on what was there... how that refects over some position I'm sensitive over escapes me. It was a bullshit thread. My original sensitive position has not changed, and again I repeat why could not the question be asked without the extra juicey bias.

As I stated earlier, the entire debate is about erin's conflict with the dom's decision for his relationship, and that's why I see it as being so heavily biased and unobjective. It also seems I'm not the only sensitive reader to see the same thing.

_____________________________

"You may be right, I may be crazy... but I may just be the lunatic you're looking for!"

(in reply to CrappyDom)

Post #: 78

RE: DM'ing....for Master's only???? - 9/28/2006 6:31:44 PM

sub4hire

Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Don't know. I haven't read any of the posts but the first one. I'm sure the thread has taken a different path since then.
In any event I've never been a master to anyone and I've DM'd for the largest group in the country on more than one occassion.
As well as many of the parties I've hosted.
Dominants are not the only ones qualified to be DM's...especially since I've mentored many dominants.
Why would you want a lesser knowing person being a DM over a scene you are in?

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 79

RE: DM'ing....for Master's only???? - 9/28/2006 6:44:30 PM

Aine

Posts: 820
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline

*giggles as she watches the panties (and tighty-whities) wad up in various pairs of proverbial pants*

_____________________________

Honey, you obviously missed the "want to be used as a toilet fetish" thread or "where do I get instructions on setting my sub on fire" thread. LOL

Thank you, DelRay for that one.

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 80

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