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RE: Digging a hole - 9/30/2006 12:56:13 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		Like abytchgoddess, I am so rarely wrong that admitting it on the few occasions I am is easy...

O.K., now to get down to serious.  I find, especially since the break-up and upheaval in my life 7 - 8 yrs ago that I feel better when I apologize for being wrong.  I had never had too much of a problem with it but I did have a problem with explaining why I had been wrong.  Like Mavis...I wanted to show them all the reasons why I had done what I had done...maybe to lessen the fact that I was still guilty...take away some of the guilt, yanno?  Make myself less wrong...
The biggest help to me was a therapist who looked at me and asked:  "And after you've given all your explanations, how much of the initial hurt/pain/betrayal do you think you cleared away?  When you've done wrong and say "I'm sorry, but..." then that "but" is basically going to be an excuse for your wrongness, not a reason.  If you want to give a reason, then you say "I'm sorry....(reason inserted here)...but that does NOT excuse my poor behavior;  I was still wrong to act/say that."

So now, I apologize.  I (sometimes, though not always...some people don't want an explanation and that is their right) explain my behavior and again note where I was wrong. 

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Digging a hole - 9/30/2006 1:07:53 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy


How do you personally deal with being in the wrong?

Are you capable of envisioning a situation wherein you are
wrong?  Are you capable of being aware of and accepting that you made a mistake?

Sinergy


Yes, and yes. If you're a human, then you're going to be wrong at times, and I have ten billion times more respect for someone that can admit they're wrong than for someone that can't.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Digging a hole - 9/30/2006 1:39:40 PM   
jamesthehumanrug


Posts: 668
Joined: 10/21/2005
Status: offline 		dearest perverted creative dom,
?WHAAAAaaaaat????! ......

< Message edited by jamesthehumanrug -- 9/30/2006 1:40:28 PM >

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I REMAIN RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED
,LOVEles,
jamesthehumanrug

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Digging a hole - 9/30/2006 2:09:58 PM   
zumala


Posts: 1121
Joined: 6/16/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis

The hardest thing Master has me do is admit to fucking up without a follow-up excuse.  


Wasnt it Yoda who said "There is no try, only do or fail."


No.    Yoda actually said: "Do or do not.  There is no try."

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Digging a hole - 9/30/2006 2:23:23 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

How do you personally deal with being in the wrong?
Are you capable of envisioning a situation wherein you are
wrong?  Are you capable of being aware of and accepting that you made a mistake?
I am very comfortable with my fallibility.   I always try to make the best decision for me and mine, and my intent is certainly to be a positive influence/force in my relationships, but I have no problem in admitting when I am wrong, or apologizing if I need to.

I dated a boy with whom I've had this conversation, and we both agreed he would take the disciplinary action (something he enjoys, lol) even when I'm the one who's wrong, so it that works for me.   M

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a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Digging a hole - 9/30/2006 3:05:07 PM   
DivaDuchess


Posts: 402
Joined: 8/17/2006
Status: offline 		I admit when I am wrong.  It's the right thing to do ... no one is perfect.




_____________________________

Duchess

Courage is not the absence of Fear,
But rather the judgement that,
Something else is more important than Fear.

The Brave may not live forever,
But the Cautious do not live at all.

(in reply to wild1cfl)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Digging a hole - 9/30/2006 4:20:03 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline 		I have a hard time admitting I'm wrong.  I'm not as bad as I used to be, but its still a tough thing for me.    Do I get defensive and dig myself into a hole?  Nah, not so much any more.   Over time, I've learned not to defend an impossible position because it only makes things worse.  But, I can't just complacently admit I was wrong and move on.  I hate the burn that comes from knowing I was wrong, and it motivates me to work harder and do better the next time.

(in reply to DivaDuchess)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Digging a hole - 9/30/2006 4:49:02 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		In general i say im wrong and apologise. I do find it very hard to do though and certainly wouldnt have done it five years ago. Then i was never wrong.

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What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Digging a hole - 9/30/2006 4:50:58 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline

Lighten the hell up.
 



The Dude "You need to settle down, man."

Walter Sobchak "Im perfectly calm, Dude."

The Dude "Waving the fucking gun around?"

Walter "Calmer than you are."

The Dude "Just take it easy, Man."

Walter "Calmer than you are."

Kinda says it all in a twisted sort of way.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to LordODiscipline)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Digging a hole - 9/30/2006 5:28:45 PM   
LordODiscipline


Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

The Dude "You need to settle down, man."

Walter Sobchak "Im perfectly calm, Dude."

The Dude "Waving the fucking gun around?"

Walter "Calmer than you are."

The Dude "Just take it easy, Man."

Walter "Calmer than you are."

Kinda says it all in a twisted sort of way.
Sinergy


I think this is better twisted than knickers and perversly states it better -
 
"It is an important and popular fact that things arent always as they seem.
 
For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much-- the wheel, New York, wars and so on-- while all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.
 
But conversely the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man--for precisely the same reasons "
~Douglas Adams - Hitchikers Guide to the Universe (which may very well be universal - of all things)
 
Mucking about on line is a thing I do for fun - not for serious.
 
~J
 
PS: Thanks for all the fish
 
 

< Message edited by LordODiscipline -- 9/30/2006 5:29:13 PM >

_____________________________

"Anyone who thinks they're important is usually just a pompous moron who can't deal with his or her own pathetic insignificance and the fact that what they do is meaningless and inconsequential."
William Thomas

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Digging a hole - 9/30/2006 5:40:14 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		How you deal with being wrong depends entirely on the circumstances around it. 

Sometimes one is set up to fail purposefully by others, and in those instances when you know deep down what has occured but cannot "prove" it, it's very hard to take responsibility for it. 

If i, of my own volition, made a poor choice that has affected others i feel such remorse that i have no problem at all in profusely apologizing and asking if there is anything i can do to make up for it.

There are so many scenarios of "being wrong" but i think you understand what i mean - it's all in context how one will react.

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Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Digging a hole - 9/30/2006 5:58:45 PM   
KeirasSecret


Posts: 415
Joined: 8/17/2006
From: central NH
Status: offline 		I know a couple that have been married forever.  She tends to say whatever fool thing enters her head at a given time, no matter
how obnoxious or cruel this might be.  His half of the dysfunction is to wander around in her wake, explaining to the shattered remains of the people she has just insulted, attempting to explain that they misunderstood her and she is a wonderful person.

Hey!!  This sounds an awful lot like my parents.
I could'nt say about this woman but I know with my mother, there is a definate lack of emotional intelegance. She truly does not see when something she's said or done has offended or hurt someone else. No point in saying your wrong if you dont believe you are.
As for me, unless it is a topic I am very famaliar with, tend not to make flat out statements and will add that I could be wrong. Being able to see things from many sides helps as well. Also, I have a strong sence of what effects my words and actions will have on others.
I personally dont believe excusses and explanations are the same thing. I would not give an explanation expecting to be excused from punishment, but I would hope that in doing so I might learn what to different next time even if it's just a reminder such as "Your doing it again"

k

(in reply to wild1cfl)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Digging a hole - 9/30/2006 6:12:51 PM   
BetrayMySecrets


Posts: 5
Joined: 9/30/2006
Status: offline 		I find that I have no problem admitting that I am wrong when I've made a mistake, but I, like Mavis, tend to have a very difficult time just saying that I'm wrong without adding some idiotic excuse.  Unfortunately it is one of those things that I will have to continue working on for a long time.  Like LaTigresse, I too become furious with myself when I make a mistake, which likely goes back to the fact that I am a perfectionist.

_____________________________

~ Chris

(in reply to KeirasSecret)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Digging a hole - 10/1/2006 10:28:33 AM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		I’ve found the best leaders in the military, academia and business have been those who would readily admit their mistakes. Of course there is wisdom to being able to see your own mistakes early, admit and correct them. The best battalion commander I had in the military would often say he wasn’t smart and he wanted things explained things to him slowly. Of course he was brilliant, but that is the concept. Be modest and admit mistakes early. I try to emulate that leadership.

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You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Digging a hole - 10/1/2006 10:39:11 PM   
Owned1


Posts: 847
Joined: 7/6/2005
From: Toronto, Ontario
Status: offline 		If I am wrong I am the first to admit it, once I realize I am wrong.

Further to that I am also one who will try different ideas, some work some dont,  when one does not work I am also the first to say its not working we need to either change to the previous method or alter what we are doing now.

There are times when one does not know how something will work unless you try it.

Owned

_____________________________

~~in His Chains i am free~~

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Digging a hole - 10/2/2006 5:54:00 AM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline 		Me and Master where talking about this very thing last night.. A mutual Dom friend (the only other Dom Master trusts me with) of ours had jumped to some conclution based on secent hand information and thus assumed that I had done something I had not, In the prosses he hurt me very badly (beat me all day long and I wont shed a tear tell me you are dissapointed and I will sob for hours) anyway very shortly after this it came out that I held no foult in what had happend which I would have told him had he come to me with what had been brought to him befor lecturing me and assumeing I had done something wrong. Needless to say I was very hurt by all this!!! However this Dom never apologised or even acknolaged that he had made a mistake on this matter, which hurts even more. Anyway Master has had to deal with the fallout of this other Doms actions as the Dom has not adressed them and has left me very upset.. So when you dont take responsability for something you have done it can be very hurtful to the person you made the mistake too.

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to wild1cfl)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Digging a hole - 10/2/2006 7:59:25 AM   
raiken


Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

How you deal with being wrong depends entirely on the circumstances around it. 

Sometimes one is set up to fail purposefully by others, and in those instances when you know deep down what has occured but cannot "prove" it, it's very hard to take responsibility for it. 

If i, of my own volition, made a poor choice that has affected others i feel such remorse that i have no problem at all in profusely apologizing and asking if there is anything i can do to make up for it.

There are so many scenarios of "being wrong" but i think you understand what i mean - it's all in context how one will react.


You make an interesting point...being setup to purposely fail by others, has happened to me before, and no, i did not take the fall.  i could not, it went against my grain. 
 
There were some who said to simply end it and admit to it so that i can move on and forget it.  i could NEVER forget admitting to something i didn't say or do or wasn't guilty of.  So yes, you are correct in my book when you say it is all in the context.
 
Other than the above scenario, i am not one for drama, and if i screw up, i just say so. "OOPS!!! my bad", and if i can make it right, i will.   i also don't keep bringing up the past with each new disagreement or argument, better to forget those things except for learning the lessons those memories contain.

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Digging a hole - 10/2/2006 8:24:19 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

You make an interesting point...being setup to purposely fail by others, has happened to me before, and no, i did not take the fall.  i could not, it went against my grain.  
 

 
It depends on your view of failure as a learning experience or as a flaw within you. It is much less disheartening to admit when you are wrong if your entire ego is not wrapped up in it (I mean "you" as a universal, not you as a person...smiles). 

My mom says "If your not failing you are not doing anything" Even being set up to fail can be a learning process. I never forget something I got wrong, I often forget the things I did right.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to raiken)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Digging a hole - 10/2/2006 9:05:49 AM   
raiken


Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

You make an interesting point...being setup to purposely fail by others, has happened to me before, and no, i did not take the fall.  i could not, it went against my grain.  
 

 
It depends on your view of failure as a learning experience or as a flaw within you. It is much less disheartening to admit when you are wrong if your entire ego is not wrapped up in it (I mean "you" as a universal, not you as a person...smiles). 

My mom says "If your not failing you are not doing anything" Even being set up to fail can be a learning process. I never forget something I got wrong, I often forget the things I did right.


Good point.  i know i am not free of "flaws" lol.  However in the situation i mentioned, it was a matter of principle, not ego.   Thinking...To fail as in not pass, to fail as in let someone down, or fail the team, etc. Then there is to fail as in fail oneself, then the question becomes, failing to what expectations, and are they realistic expectations.  In this aspect i can see where ego would be a huge participant. i have often been my tougest critic and my most regimented arbiter.  Nuff said on here though...*grin (that was my ego speaking) LOL! Ya have a smart mom! *smile

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Digging a hole - 10/2/2006 10:18:16 AM   
HollyS


Posts: 230
Joined: 1/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I will hear an apology for a misdeed once.  If the person does the same thing again, I tell them that the most sincere form of apology for having done / not done something is to stop doing / not doing it.  Sorry is just a word.  Contrition is a behavior.


That last sentence I've quoted above is more crucial than almost anything in taking responsibility for what a person has done.  Awhile back, one of the most valuable things I learned from my trainer was the value of a proper apology.  When I've done something wrong -- even when I don't feel that I have but the other person has taken offense to something I've said or done -- an apology can be the surest way to defuse anger or frustration between people.  There are lots of ways to apologize (some short, some silent, some written, etc...) but when the offence is really big, there are four main parts that need to be stated:

1) Desire/intent to apologize
2) Honest statement of the offense and how you feel about it (shame and remorse)
3) A promise not to repeat the behaviour and what you'll do to make sure it doesn't happen again.
4) An offer to make amends for what you've done wrong

For example:
Julia, may I apologize for what happened yesterday? (the person may not be ready to hear your apology yet - asking this allows the other person the space to say "No.")
I'm so sorry for arguing with you about veganism yesterday. I shouldn't have imposed my own values on your decision.  It was rude and I'm so sorry. I'll make a point to be more open-minded and less judgemental in the future when we talk, especially about things where we disagree. How can I make it up to you?
Important points: 
  • If possible, always correct anything you have done or neglected to do immediately.
  • Never offer an excuse for what you've done; there may be reasons, but never excuses.
  • You must never imply that you're apologizing under threat or command, e.g. "I guess I ought to apologize." or "My Sir told me I had to apologize to you now."
  • Hold to your promise to not repeat the behavior again.  Any apology is worthless until you are again faced with the chance to make the same error or offence again and you don't do it.

Many people feel that apologies "cede ground" or otherwise put them in a "one-down" to the other person's "one-up" position.  It's my experience that this isn't true -- apologies can defuse tension and allow everyone to discuss the issues calmly rather than in the heat of emotional anger.   And yes, stopping the behaviour from happening again is the best way of demonstrating your committment to both the other person and yourself. 

Sometimes words can work wonders and are necessary...  but always remember what mom said about which "speaks" louder, actions or words.

~Holly



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I wish my lawn were emo, so it would cut itself.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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