RE: Iraq: For Solutions only

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juliaoceania -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/1/2006 5:18:07 PM)
Level, It seemed to me that he was calling anyone that brings up the problems in Iraq to be "blamers and whiners"... it did not seem to be a genuine call for ideas to me.. nor a very productive way to induce sane reasonable and productive ideas... He says it was, well I will give him the benefit of the doubt, but words color a person's view on a debate topic... It is putting those who do not agree with you on the defensive before they even post one word on the topic.. so there is more than a little chatisement to go around

LadyMorgynn -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/1/2006 5:21:21 PM)
No, Julia, he was referring to posts made on a different thread entirely. But it was not a good way to introduce a thread he purports to want to be a serious discussion, you are right.

sissifytoserve -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/1/2006 5:22:20 PM)
Ah hell.... People who have been against this war from the BEGINNING have been called every name in the book. Why all of a sudden are these people being ask to be treated with kid-gloves? Its THEIR mess. Let THEM fix it. ...oh...and by the way US GOV.Leave me alone!@ and stay the hell out of my Phone calls, financial records and keep your GRUBBY MITS off of my SACRED Constitution!!!

LadyMorgynn -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/1/2006 5:29:36 PM)
Yeah, no joke. I've been called a traitor, a Benedict Arnold, a towel-head, ignorant, and those are just the nice ones. I've also had death threats. quote: ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve Ah hell.... People who have been against this war from the BEGINNING have been called every name in the book. ...oh...and by the way US GOV.Leave me alone!@ and stay the hell out of my Phone calls, financial records and keep your GRUBBY MITS off of my SACRED Constitution!!! AMEN!!!!

WyrdRich -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/1/2006 5:34:06 PM)
Julia, LadyMorgynn, Yes, I absolutely DID take a confrontational tone in the OP. No apology for doing so. I count four threads on the first page of the forum devoted to useless attacks on where we are and how we got here. Sometimes you can reasonably call a spade a spade and be heard. Other times you need to raise your voice a bit and call it a fucking shovel to get anyone's attention. My suggestion was to force a little free expression on the warring factions. Nobody likes it and that is fine, I'm accustomed to be being a weird voice in the wilderness. Who else has an idea that might be worth a shot?

mnottertail -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/1/2006 5:39:15 PM)
Hop a plane and walk away immediately.Release Saddam and reinstall him and his government, apologize for blowing the shit out of houses and civilians, never look back.... And NEVER ever do this stupid shit again (this is the hard and contoversial portion) and never play politics with another countries infrastructure for no reason. Ron

WyrdRich -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/1/2006 5:41:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn Yeah, no joke. I've been called a traitor, a Benedict Arnold, a towel-head, ignorant, and those are just the nice ones. I've also had death threats. I've said some nasty things about the intelligence of presenting a divided front before the war ever started but as for the right of those opposed to express their opinion, I'll defend that with a lot better than a pitchfork. I want to find something that the country as a whole can get behind.

gooddogbenji -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/1/2006 5:41:36 PM)
I think we have heard a few now. Get out now, try the idiots, change the political landscape in America, all of those may not be 100% fully written out, but workable starting points. Yours, benji

bills944 -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/1/2006 5:43:32 PM)
JUST LEAVE PERIOD.................. THAT'S IT! IF NECESSARY, GO BACK, OTHERWISE STAY OUT, LET THEM FIGURE THEIR COUNTRY OUT FOR THEMSELVES. THEY DON'T WANT US THERE FOR ANY REASON. "If 99% of people don"t like Saddam 97% Don't want the Americans" THAT'S WHAT AN IRAQI TOLD ME, HE WORKS AT A 7/11 SHELL PUMPING GAS. DON'T GO BACK BECAUSE OF A CIVIL WAR. THAT'S NONE OF OUR BUSINESS. ONLY STAY NEARBY, LIKE IN KUWAIT, TO KILL AL QAEDA TYPE TERRORISTS.

LadyMorgynn -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/1/2006 5:43:32 PM)
I'll be really, really honest. I DON'T KNOW. I see huge problems everywhere, every possible solution brings with it a whole 'nother set of problems. I would LOVE to hear some thoughtful debate on these possible realistic solutions and how their accompanying drawbacks could be handled in a way acceptable to the Iraqi's and with the best chance of our leaving that country in a stable and peaceful condition upon our withdrawal. Believe me, and you already know I am not shy, if I had such a solution I would be shouting it from the rooftops! quote: ORIGINAL: WyrdRich Julia, LadyMorgynn, Yes, I absolutely DID take a confrontational tone in the OP. No apology for doing so. I count four threads on the first page of the forum devoted to useless attacks on where we are and how we got here. Sometimes you can reasonably call a spade a spade and be heard. Other times you need to raise your voice a bit and call it a fucking shovel to get anyone's attention. My suggestion was to force a little free expression on the warring factions. Nobody likes it and that is fine, I'm accustomed to be being a weird voice in the wilderness. Who else has an idea that might be worth a shot?

Rule -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/1/2006 6:07:34 PM)
The best solution is to pull out immediately. If anything unpleasant happens afterwards in Iraq it is the responsibility of the Iraqi people alone. It is not going to happen, though. The conquest of Afghanistan and Iraq and undoubtedly after them Iran, and the devastation of the islamic religion was decided on by the powers that be in the 1970s, possibly immediately after the oil crisis. Ever since those countries have been weakened and softened up in preparation for the invasion and conquest. If the US troops pull out, it will be only to attack another islamic country, most probably Iran. That will not liberate Iraq from foreign troops, though. Other countries will send troops to "keep order" in Iraq. Perhaps most of them will be Japanese, as that country appears to have been given permission to start preparing their military for deployment abroad.

caitlyn -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/1/2006 6:08:00 PM)
It seems like a problem we at least partially if not totally created. It also seems illogical to just leave a void. Like him or not, Saddam did represent stability of a kind. An American/British funded peace keeping force would be an option. I think the first choice would be a coalition of Arab states. There is potential that a more moderate administration could accomplish this. Next choice would be the United Nations. Probably a big "fat chance" on that one. A NATO coalition would be the last and worst option, and a very hard sell to both sides. Oil companies, who seem to have reeped great profits over this, should pay to rebuild Iraq's oil industry, ensuring at least a little cash flow. Iran must be warned in no uncertain terms that poking their nose into Iraqi affairs, would be considered an act of war. I have no idea if these are good ideas.

juliaoceania -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/1/2006 6:11:12 PM)
One realistic solution is involve Iraqis that are educated and skilled to rebuild their country and not to deny them the jobs that they are qualified for because they were Baathists when Saddam was running things. Instead of hiring outsiders to rebuild Iraq, let Iraqis do so.. but that would not make Kellog Root and Brown happy, nor Halliburton either.. and it is all about them isn't it? Another thing, stop this lame brained idea that we can build permanent military bases in Iraq and use it as a launching pad to control the region.. it is not workable and this idea should be abandoned altogether

juliaoceania -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/1/2006 6:17:49 PM)
It seems a lot of republicans agree with me... whatcha know...smiles... I just dug this up after my last post Congress Heads Off Permanent Iraq Bases From ReutersSeptember 30, 2006 WASHINGTON — Congress on Friday moved to block the Bush administration from building permanent U.S. military bases in Iraq or controlling the country's oil sector, as it approved $70 billion for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Democrats and many Republicans say the Iraqi insurgency has been fueled by perceptions that the United States has ambitions for a permanent presence in the country. The administration has downplayed prospects for permanent bases in Iraq, but lawmakers have called on President Bush to make a definitive statement that the U.S. has no such plans. U.S. officials have predicted a lengthy American military presence in Iraq. The restrictions were included in a record-high $447-billion military funding bill. The Senate unanimously passed the bill, sending it to Bush for his signature. The House passed it earlier in the week, 394-22. http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-bases30sep30,0,712014.story?coll=la-home-world

caitlyn -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/1/2006 6:18:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Another thing, stop this lame brained idea that we can build permanent military bases in Iraq and use it as a launching pad to control the region.. it is not workable and this idea should be abandoned altogether Unfortunately, I think this is absolutely the intended mission. From a position of honor and what is the right thing to do, I'm completely against it. From a cold hearted, we don't give a fuck about what anyone thinks, I believe the United States has the military might to pull it off. It's going to come down to an election battle between those that support what is right and honorable, and those that are cold hearted.

juliaoceania -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/1/2006 6:20:52 PM)
quote: From a cold hearted, we don't give a fuck about what anyone thinks, I believe the United States has the military might to pull it off. Well I think you are wrong, we do not have the will of the American people behind such an endeavor, and we do not have the manpower for it either. That is the cold hard facts of the matter.

caitlyn -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/1/2006 6:23:11 PM)
I hope you are right.

juliaoceania -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/1/2006 6:24:19 PM)
Me too Caitlyn...btw, I have been thinking of you and yours... hang tight, things often look darkest before the light shines in.

WyrdRich -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/1/2006 6:27:38 PM)
See? We get the flames out of the way on the first page and some good ideas start sprouting in the fertilizer. Excellent suggestion about ending any employment discrimination against former Baathist's. Screw Halliburton. How do we discourage the Death Cult from gaining too much influence without alienating the far larger 'regular' Muslims (more than they already are. We are getting our asses kicked in the propaganda war.)

LadyMorgynn -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/1/2006 6:28:54 PM)
Agreed. I think the entire country should have risen up to STOP this invasion before it happened. quote: ORIGINAL: WyrdRich I've said some nasty things about the intelligence of presenting a divided front before the war ever started

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