RE: Iraq: For Solutions only

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trannysub007 -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/1/2006 8:36:24 PM)
"He will not be president forever" juliaoceania, post #58 True, he won't. But he wants to be king. And you don't vote for kings. That's perfect for him. Well, either king or dictator. He's been practicing for years for both jobs. Sorry, Rich. i know this was supposed to be a serious thread. It's just that Dubya is such a ridiculous excuse for a person. Ooooh, how about instead of a public hanging of all those guys, they get orange jumpsuits and get put to work on constructing a 2000 mile long, 20 foot-high, elecrified, razor-wire double fence along the US-Mexican border? And their assets can be confiscated to actually fund the fence project. Certainly tax-payer money shouldn't be used.

juliaoceania -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/1/2006 8:36:59 PM)
People who seek out political discourse are not the average American voter, those people are much more moderate, and most of them do not like war, even though they want to support our troops by staying behind them.. they will still vote for peace... hopefully I do not know this, I am forever the optimist...smiles

WyrdRich -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/1/2006 8:39:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania He will not be president forever Unfortunately, someone like him will be President. Gloomy I know, but look at the mood, even on this message board. People just can't be civil. Right here on this board there is a segment that seems to think they can see into the heart and soul of anyone that doesn't agree with them. They exist on both sides. We aren't going to have an election based on issues. We aren't going to have an election based on civil debate. We are going to have an election based on shit talking, trashing others and calling people names. We are going to have an election where both sides call the other side stupid. We are going to have an election based on lies and innuendo. We will not be electing someone for which much can be said. We will be electing someone for which little can be objected. I fear you are likely right Caitlyn. Party candidates are selected by the base and I don't see any indications they will place the good of the country above their personal hatred and prejudice. We'll get 'turd sandwich vs. giant douche' all over again. McCain/Liebermann, anyone?

CrappyDom -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/1/2006 8:43:00 PM)
Rich, There were Democrats who voted to impeach Clinton and that was over a very minor issue. Bush wanted to obtain military bases in Iraq and manipulated the intelligence in such a way to manufacture the need to go to war. The Democrats don't even need a majority, just enough to force hearings, once that happens it is all downhill from there. The problem with ruling by force as Bush has done is the minute you lose control, everyone you have ever fucked with wants to grind their axe. Cheney browbeat the CIA, Rummy has destroyed the Army and many many careers, and they have all run roughshod over State. The witnesses will be comming out of the woodwork, because unlike the last Republican fuckup (Iran-Contra) this one isn't a grey area and Raygun was popular with the military, Bush isn't. There will be an avalanche of dirty laundry, enough that many Republicans (who just saw their huge lead destroyed by Bush) yanked out from under them. They will want to step up and fake being responsible and will vote with the Dems. Bush is going down and so is Cheney and the whole gang. It is going to be very very ugly and will do permanent harm to the Republican party as the shit is exposed. Once they are gone there is a chance we could fix Iraq but until they are gone, we couldn't even fix a single city.

WyrdRich -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/1/2006 8:43:07 PM)
No need to apologize Tranny, we have to vent the insanity somehow and I'm in no position to criticize an off topic bit of snide remark.

LadyMorgynn -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/1/2006 8:58:50 PM)
I wish I could believe that.... with all my heart I wish it. But... color me cynical. Ain't gonna happen. He's the front man for too many people with too much power and too much interest and too much invested in this war, and this agenda. They have this country in a vise grip, and one day we will wake up and find it is too late for us.

caitlyn -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/1/2006 9:00:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WyrdRich McCain/Liebermann, anyone? We should be so lucky.[;)] No, we will get a choice between people that are "out to get" the other side, and will use whatever tactic is at hand in order to get it. The winner will be the guy that does it best ... right around Christmas, we will get our new SlanderClause.

bills944 -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/1/2006 9:05:25 PM)
We can tell all the soldiers to just go to Canada and stay there until Bush is gone. http://edition.cnn.com/2006/US/10/01/wardeserter.ap/index.html Decorated Army deserter returns to U.S. 10/01/06 04:33 PM, EDT A decorated soldier who deserted from the U.S. Army to avoid a second tour of duty in Iraq has crossed back into the United States after fleeing to Canada almost two years ago.

KellyCat -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/1/2006 9:16:24 PM)
Well...I have an idea...It may not be one that most people want to realize, but in all liklyhood, we have lost the war in Iraq. Where to go from here? We should start by splitting Iraq into 3 smaller nations, or if we want to keep them as 1 nation, 3 major states (one for each major religious/ethnic group). Set up a IRAQI national company that is in charge of oil revenues, and gives a pay out to all Iraqi's, so the oil wealth is spread evenly between the entire community, as opposed to only the areas with high oil revenue. Next, rebuilding infastructure. We should contract out to middle-eastern companies (Iraqi prefered, but other groups as needed for similar religious areas...AKA, not Haliburton). This will reduce the tension of having American contracters there, and provide less targets for attacks, sense Im assuming that most Iraqi insergents want to kill the occupiers (US, et al), not so much the Joe Arab. Then, launch a congressional investigation into the miss-handling, war profettering, and abuse of power at the highest levels. This will help with rebuilding our alliences sense it shows that we goofed up, and we want to learn what went wrong, and where to go from here. Anyways...thats my 2-cents. -Kelly

LadyMorgynn -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/1/2006 9:17:31 PM)
I thought we had extradition with Canada? quote: ORIGINAL: bills944 We can tell all the soldiers to just go to Canada and stay there until Bush is gone.

LadyMorgynn -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/1/2006 9:18:43 PM)
I love it! This is the best I have heard yet! quote: ORIGINAL: KellyCat Well...I have an idea...It may not be one that most people want to realize, but in all liklyhood, we have lost the war in Iraq. Where to go from here? We should start by splitting Iraq into 3 smaller nations, or if we want to keep them as 1 nation, 3 major states (one for each major religious/ethnic group). Set up a IRAQI national company that is in charge of oil revenues, and gives a pay out to all Iraqi's, so the oil wealth is spread evenly between the entire community, as opposed to only the areas with high oil revenue. Next, rebuilding infastructure. We should contract out to middle-eastern companies (Iraqi prefered, but other groups as needed for similar religious areas...AKA, not Haliburton). This will reduce the tension of having American contracters there, and provide less targets for attacks, sense Im assuming that most Iraqi insergents want to kill the occupiers (US, et al), not so much the Joe Arab. Then, launch a congressional investigation into the miss-handling, war profettering, and abuse of power at the highest levels. This will help with rebuilding our alliences sense it shows that we goofed up, and we want to learn what went wrong, and where to go from here. Anyways...thats my 2-cents. -Kelly

Zensee -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/2/2006 12:25:07 AM)
Well Rich, opening a "constructive thread" with debasing remarks about everyone who dares to disagree with you is likely to be counterproductive. But if you meant to say something like "We all have divergent views on what got us into this mess - how about we see if we can gather some real and constructive strategies for getting out of it", I'd be happy to contribute. Don't abandon the area. Consolidate the front. Move all coalition and Nato forces into Afganistan, where this mess began. Remember Afganistan? (Canadians do. A canadian soldier is six times more likely to die there than a US soldier in Iraq.) Clean out the Talliban and all the other rats. Get Pakistan to behave but seal their border with Afganistan anyway. Turn Afganistan into a secular, democratic Moslem wonderland with highspeed internet, and satelite TV in every villiage, home, school - new infrastructure, medical facilities, roads, airports, tourist attractions. Anything to connect it to the rest of the world and the world to it. Carpet bomb it with chocolate! It will take two generations before any deep change in the psyche can hope to take root. No "Mission Accomplished" photo ops a few months in. Fix the root causes. Respect and empower the people. Encourage and educate strong individuals. This is what should have been done at the outset. Just hang out next door to Iraq. Marching up and down, accidentally crossing their borders on occasion. Keeping the air patrols up at all hours. Buzzing Madame Sadam's Palace. The usual stuff. Arming the Kurds. Forming a government in exile. Wait for the right time and work to make the time right. Regretably, Iraq will get even more bloody doing this now but staying there will only delay this now that GWB has let that cat out of the bag. KellyCat's ideas could integrate with these but would dilute the available forces. In anycase, making a stand with Afganistan is still viable and necessary. 0

FangsNfeet -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/2/2006 4:56:56 AM)
It's time to upgrade our technology. Remote controll robots and satelite lasers. To get our troops back home, I think we should also allow them to do there job without politics getting in the way. For some stupid historical reason, we can't shoot the temple. We can only train other Iraqis to go into the temple to fight there terrorist who shoot and kill our troups. Our troops can't fight back when the terreroist fight from inside a temple. That's bull shit to me.

LadyEllen -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/2/2006 5:52:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn I understand that. I DO. But... geez. Doesn't anyone here have ANY compassion for the victims in all this? Doesn't anyone grasp at all the consequences to human lives in the hundreds of thousands, in terms of death, sickness, starvation, on a pullout now? Where are all the bleeding hearts who went on and on against the sanctions on Iraq (I wasn't one of 'em), which caused far less suffering, btw, than our invasion. Geez, doesn't anyone CARE???? WE did this... AMERICA. It's OUR goverment, folks, like it or not. We can deny personal responsibility, but not collective responsibility. We can't just pull out and leave all those people to fend for themselves in the kind of turmoil that would erupt in the vacuum left. Yes, the war itself was a criminal act.... to just pull out now would be even more criminal... it would be an act of barbaric inhumanity unequaled in our country's history. quote: ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve oh Bull....if anyone is responsible...its the draft-dodging chickenhawks in the Whitehouse and all the Armchair quarterbacks screaming "rah-rah" when baghdad was getting "smart-bombed" (yeah right) and being turned into a radioactive DU wasteland. I sure-as-hell aint responsible for that. Hi Lady M & sissify & all - havent read the whole thread yet, so maybe someone else has brought this up later down. The fact is, we are now stuck in Iraq. If we pull out, dont expect any vacuum to last long, as the Iranians will move in damned quick and take control - after all, they already have their people on the ground and in the Iraqi government. If anyone thinks we're screwed now, just wait till the Greater Islamic Republic of Iran stretches from the Med to the Indian ocean, with control of huge oil reserves, the Suez canal, and possibly nuclear weapons. See how our Saudi and Pakistani friends deal with us with that sort of ally on their side rather than us, and such a revised alliance would be good for them both in terms of their own influence in the world and to quiet their own internal strife from Islamists. This scenario is exactly why Saddam was allowed to remain in power after Gulf War I. He might be a twisted fxxk, but he was also a wonderfully terrible buffer between the Islamists of the east and west of the region. I could see that in the 1990s - the soldier I discussed it with thought I must be MI6 or something just for that, which was cool, but way off! But the capability to see this scenario is nothing special - I'm sure thousands have seen it, and you can bet the Iranians have. This is why we have to stay, regardless of how many body bags come back, how many men and women are scarred or crippled, how much it costs and how long it takes. And thats to say nothing of the dead and injured Iraqis as a result of the war and then now the civil war there. Saddam was a monster, the sanctions hurt only his people but now they have a much worse situation on their hands. CD is right - the first step in any solution to this damned fine mess is to get rid of the idiots who started it, and bring in people who can produce a satisfactory settlement with the people who will take control once we move out - the Iranians. Dealing with the devil? Yes, but when one plays dice with the devil, the time comes to pay one's gambling debts to save one's soul from further torment, or in this case perhaps, to lessen the ongoing torment. Whats most annoying is that the idiots who started all this will be well cushioned by wealth and position from the reparations whilst ordinary people will be burying their sons and daughters, caring for their broken minds and bodies and paying the costs for this stupid and ridiculous blunder for years to come. And if there is to be a trial, then Mr Blair should also stand - who is the greater fool, the fool or the fool who follows him? I believe one of the charges at Nuremberg was waging an aggressive war. How they could defend themselves against this one I'd love to see. E

CrappyDom -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/2/2006 5:58:02 AM)
Anyone who still believes McCain is a moderate with integrity hasn't been paying attention. He has sold his soul to the relgious right and done whatever else he needed to do to appeal to the far right. Just watch him equivocate on any of the more serious talk shows or heck, just watch Colbert's roast at the White House press corp.

SayYesMistress -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/2/2006 10:04:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WyrdRich Apologists, Blamers, Pouters and Whiners; there are plenty of other threads for your useless and counterproductive input. This one is just for ideas about how we can safely get our guys the hell out of there. Translates to "My entire philosophy on the Iraq war has been wrong and I'm trying to recapture some dignity by blaming someone else".

FangsNfeet -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/2/2006 4:33:09 PM)
Hell, let's just NUKE 'EM. But I guess that's to easy.

Rule -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/2/2006 5:23:17 PM)
If I were the Iraqi people, I would make a deal with Iran and other islamic countries and offer any defecting soldier of the invading forces four wives and a job for all five of them and refuge and a new identity and citizenship and freedom of religion in Iran or any other islamic country, provided that they defect, surrender their weapons to the Iraqi, and do as much damage to the material and supplies of their own troops as possible before they defect.

LadyJulieAnn -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/2/2006 5:36:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zensee Well Rich, opening a "constructive thread" with debasing remarks about everyone who dares to disagree with you is likely to be counterproductive. But if you meant to say something like "We all have divergent views on what got us into this mess - how about we see if we can gather some real and constructive strategies for getting out of it", I'd be happy to contribute. Don't abandon the area. Consolidate the front. Move all coalition and Nato forces into Afganistan, where this mess began. Remember Afganistan? (Canadians do. A canadian soldier is six times more likely to die there than a US soldier in Iraq.) Clean out the Talliban and all the other rats. Get Pakistan to behave but seal their border with Afganistan anyway. Turn Afganistan into a secular, democratic Moslem wonderland with highspeed internet, and satelite TV in every villiage, home, school - new infrastructure, medical facilities, roads, airports, tourist attractions. Anything to connect it to the rest of the world and the world to it. Carpet bomb it with chocolate! It will take two generations before any deep change in the psyche can hope to take root. No "Mission Accomplished" photo ops a few months in. Fix the root causes. Respect and empower the people. Encourage and educate strong individuals. This is what should have been done at the outset. Just hang out next door to Iraq. Marching up and down, accidentally crossing their borders on occasion. Keeping the air patrols up at all hours. Buzzing Madame Sadam's Palace. The usual stuff. Arming the Kurds. Forming a government in exile. Wait for the right time and work to make the time right. Regretably, Iraq will get even more bloody doing this now but staying there will only delay this now that GWB has let that cat out of the bag. KellyCat's ideas could integrate with these but would dilute the available forces. In anycase, making a stand with Afganistan is still viable and necessary. 0 Wow. Solutions without using the words 'Republican" and "Democrat". Well done. [:)]

WyrdRich -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/2/2006 5:38:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet Hell, let's just NUKE 'EM. But I guess that's to easy. Oil under glass huh? Let's not bring out the biggest hammer in the toolbox just yet.

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