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RE: The right thing - 10/4/2006 5:51:53 AM

Nikolette

Posts: 488
Joined: 10/2/2004
Status: offline

Rumtiger-

Message me on the other side if you would like to some suggestions about what to do about this if you think she could be in an abusive situation.

A quick suggestion is this: IF she is being abused this person is already doing as much as he can to invalidate her and totally consume her has his own. Don't add to it by making her feel stupid. "He's an asshole" Why would anyone be with someone they thought to be a total ass? That is inadvertantly a very very invalidating statement. And it caused JUST what ~HE~ wanted to happen. She jumped to his defense. Now she has justified his behavior not only to you, but WAY more importantly... to Herself. Number one rule for me in dealing with someone who is possibly being abused- NEVER EVER set them up for an opportunity to defend their abuser's actions to themselves. Instead find ways for her to come to her OWN conclusions about the actions.

Additionally your more important message to her needs to be this: "I respect you, I care about you, and you are really important to me. I am concerned about some things I have been noticing (don't get specific or she'll defend them), but I trust your judgement. Please know though that at ANY time you can come to me for ANY thing." - and mean it. The reason why THIS of all things is so important to tell her is because this is the OPPOSITE of what she'd be getting from him, and MOST people. Most people are going to have invalidating reactions that aren't helpful, they are in fact condesending, smug, and often manipulative. Those people she won't go to in a time of need, or enlightenment in her situation- it will cost too much, she won't feel safe, and she will know that they don't understand her, or her situation.

What you would ideally be setting up is a situation where you are involved in her life, and avaliable and safe to her.

If she talks to you about issues she is having that are clearly abusive your message should be strong, simple, and consistant:

NO ONE DESERVES TO BE TREATED LIKE THAT. THERE IS ~NOTHING~ YOU CAN DO TO ~MAKE~ SOMEONE TREAT YOU LIKE THAT.

_____________________________

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." ---Mahatma Gandhi

(in reply to Rumtiger)

Post #: 61

RE: The right thing - 10/4/2006 5:53:35 AM

Nikolette

Posts: 488
Joined: 10/2/2004
Status: offline

Additionally if you are concerned about her... its important to make sure you don't totally alienate this person. If you make him force her to choose the relationship or the friendship- you probably won't like the results. You don't have to kiss his ass, but do your best to be calm, reasonable, polite, and connect with him JUST enough for him to not feel threatened by your position in her life.

_____________________________

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." ---Mahatma Gandhi

(in reply to Nikolette)

Post #: 62

RE: The right thing - 10/4/2006 7:50:53 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rumtiger
So...is it right that I told him to fuck off and eat my shit?

Right? Perhaps? The best way to go about it? Probably not.

quote:

Or should I have dropped him then and there? Still a possibility next time I see him outside.

If your friend is truly interested in him, this will probably have a negative affect on that relationships. So, what's more important, your anger or your freindship?

quote:

Who the fuck does this guy think he is to say this shit to me, I dont think many male doms are like this right?

Abusive people will commonly make the slave give up friends and family. Insecure people will commonly make the slave give up friends of oppostive sex. I've only run into a few Male Doms who are abusive. They usually don't last long in the community because other behaviors get them banned from groups. I've run into lots of people, male and female, who are insecure, including me at times.

In the end, it's up to your friend if she wants to pursue a relationship with this man. You can offer your opinion, point out thing and such, but she's the one who ultimately decides.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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Ms Relationship Books
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BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to Rumtiger)

Post #: 63

RE: The right thing - 10/4/2006 7:55:16 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sab

Are there female Dom's?

Stating the obvious:
Yes, there are. Female Tops and Masters, too.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to Sab)

Post #: 64

RE: The right thing - 10/4/2006 11:07:51 AM

Sab

Posts: 325
Joined: 5/2/2006
From: Canada
Status: offline

No, me? Oh well. :( Adding a little light jestery to an inflammable situation seems to have gone amiss, but no matter.

Rum,

Looking at the situation now, now you have talked to the girl, you could look in a different light. If, and I mean a big if, the girl could, and probably is fixated with the guy - and as that is probably the case there isn't jack shit you can do about it barring waiting for the aftermath if their relationship fails. If you are as close to her as you say - be a good friend and keep a distance where you can be supportive yet seem to do his bidding - that will work wonders for her and his (apparant) low self-esteem.

Other than that you could do as I did when I was your age - kick the living shit out of him. :)

_____________________________

God blessed it and it brought me to her.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 65

RE: The right thing - 10/4/2006 11:43:40 AM

Rumtiger

Posts: 2634
Joined: 3/4/2006
From: Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

If being confrontational and angry is your usual state of mind, he may have decided that she needs calmer people around her. I don't know you nor what you are usually like. I am curious as to why, assuming you were a close friend, she hadn't tried to get the two of you together beforehand to insure that you became his friend as well as hers.

However, I suggest you rein in your temper and ask your friend politely why she's been banned from communicating with you. Hopefully she will be permitted to answer.

You've posted pretty late, please read all thats happened so far to this point.

_____________________________

Fuck the Pandas!
-Moi

Mmm, I love me some kickboxers, you know why? Cause ya'll cant take a punch!
- Quentin Tarantino.

If they cant take a joke, fuck em.
-Tucker Max

(in reply to Celeste43)

Post #: 66

RE: The right thing - 10/4/2006 2:29:13 PM

teamnoir

Posts: 226
Joined: 4/5/2005
From: San Francisco Bay Area California
Status: offline

IMO, the d/s is irrelevant here. He's being an idiot. Dropping him would be even worse.

(in reply to Rumtiger)

Post #: 67

RE: The right thing - 10/4/2006 2:41:18 PM

Rumtiger

Posts: 2634
Joined: 3/4/2006
From: Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: teamnoir

IMO, the d/s is irrelevant here. He's being an idiot. Dropping him would be even worse.

Woulda felt great though.

And no, dont any of you try telling me otherwise with that "oh you'd only make yourself feel worse" stuff. Maybe in regards to my friend, but to him? nope, woulda been sweet.

_____________________________

Fuck the Pandas!
-Moi

Mmm, I love me some kickboxers, you know why? Cause ya'll cant take a punch!
- Quentin Tarantino.

If they cant take a joke, fuck em.
-Tucker Max

(in reply to teamnoir)

Post #: 68

RE: The right thing - 10/7/2006 1:24:02 PM

charmedlife412

Posts: 6
Joined: 9/15/2006
Status: offline

Rumtiger, honey I feel your pain on this one. I have a friend who is married to a complete dick. I despise him with all my being. He threw a plate against the wall and almost hit my one-year old godson with it. She showed up at my job while we were closing up. I DID take the violent route. And I drove 3 hours and showed up on his doorstep one night and clocked him in the nose. I proceeded to tell him that if he ever did physical harm to her or my godson, that I wouldn't just deck him. I'd kill him. IF he has been abusive since then, she hasn't told me. But she's finally ready to leave him. It just took her over 2 years to figure it out. I'm the only friend she has left. He ran all the rest of them off. Moved her to NY from GA and away from all of her family. I'm the only one who didn't back down. I love this girl like a sister. I would do anything in the world for her.

So in your situation, I give this advice. DON'T give up on her. Stick around, do some digging, make sure she really is okay. This guy she's with doesn't sound like the safest person for her to be with. He seems shady. And when most people seem shady, they are. If he is abusive towards her, take the gentle route, help her realize first that it's not right in any way. If that doesn't work, the only thing I can tell you is stick around. Try to protect her as best you can. She may be just that scared of him. Be patient with her.

(in reply to Rumtiger)

Post #: 69

RE: The right thing - 10/7/2006 1:51:33 PM

thisishis

Posts: 278
Joined: 5/11/2006
From: Southeastern MA
Status: offline

EDITED TO ADD:
Didn't realize that Rum has finally managed to talk it out with his friend.
Ignore the portion of my reply below, (or please apply it to Rum's initial post of this thread, as it was intended). -thanks.
At this point i'd say, to Rum: Master or Dom or just boyfriend, you should be glad you kept your cool rather than dropping the guy. Better chance that way, that you'll not be the one looking like an ass in the end.
-----------------------------------
Based on your original post, you refer to the guy as 'her master'.
While you state that she's known you for years, and him for only months, many will agree that regardless of how long either is known, a master is understood to be of a higher priority than a subbie friend (regardless of that subbie being male or female). You call him a dom, yet you first refer to him as a master ..... i don't know what you define a master as and to me it denotes ownership (for one thing). Point being, by your description it sounds like he is more than just a dom to her and more than just a boyfriend.

There's only one side of three offered here.
It seems you can only be certain of your part of the story and not her's nor his. They are in a relationship. As with any relationship, unless they have offered an explaination to you of the dynamics and agreements between them regarding all of the details of that relationship ...... you shouldn't assume anything.
She may know that he has expressed that he wishes for you to sever any contact with her. Maybe she doesn't. Seems you don't know. For all you know, she may concider herself to be his property .... aka his slave. She may have agreed to his wishes. Maybe not, though. Seems you do not know.

In my opinion, it sounds like you are just feeling a bit hot headed because some guy pulled rank and pointed out to you exactly where you now stand with her.
'Dropping' the guy would be a foolish thing. For all you know, since you don't seem to know much about him, he may just kick your ass. Either way, it won't find you smelling too sweet in her opinion. It will certainly give him good reason to back his decision of wanting her to agree to stay away from her.

At most, i'd give her a phone call. If she says she did agree to his wishes, and his wish is that you step back and stay away etc ..... then that's what you should do.

< Message edited by thisishis -- 10/7/2006 2:09:25 PM >

_____________________________

Sincerely, his

How I'm kept busy these days: http://modelmayhem.com/member.php?id=368120

(in reply to Rumtiger)

Post #: 70

RE: The right thing - 10/7/2006 5:28:45 PM

Rumtiger

Posts: 2634
Joined: 3/4/2006
From: Vegas
Status: offline

Well sorry for using the wrong..term, at the begining then, I shoulda just said hes a dom and shes a sub, trust me hes not a master of anything.

As for knowing about him, I meant I dont want to know about the intamcy of thier relationship, if shes talking to me and she goes into something like

"Oh last night he tied me spread eagle and..."
"Chris I dont wanna fucking know"

Though I do have enough sense to ask about certian things (after all it's not like I exactly warmed to him throughout these months, so part of me kinda wants to know his capabilities) He dosent work out, he dosent do any type of MA, and the only thing close to being dangerous he did was a 4 year stint in the army as a 68J I believe.

...Thats a washing machine attendant.

...and he spent it all stateside and in Korea.

I think I'll be okay in a fight with him.

_____________________________

Fuck the Pandas!
-Moi

Mmm, I love me some kickboxers, you know why? Cause ya'll cant take a punch!
- Quentin Tarantino.

If they cant take a joke, fuck em.
-Tucker Max

(in reply to thisishis)

Post #: 71

RE: The right thing - 10/7/2006 9:27:11 PM

MistressTexas

Posts: 425
Joined: 5/30/2006
Status: offline

Oh Tiger darling.. You so need a hero cookie. Any new progress?

(in reply to Rumtiger)

Post #: 72

RE: The right thing - 10/7/2006 10:28:00 PM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rumtiger

And as for him telling her what to do...in this case I dont know if its the rule of a master telling a sub what to do...more like a dickhead boyfriend telling a girl whats what. Thats how it looks to me, but the circumstances kind of make things a little...blurred.

Noooooooooooo.......... actually it seems very normal to me. i have my Master tell me not to talk to certian ppl anymore. He's actually cut off quite a few people he deemed unacceptable to be in my life and generally screens any new friends i've made. He's also called up a few guys, i've hung out with and told them i wouldnt be seeing them anymore. Which is also in my best interest as well, as i have a big problem with guys trying to get into my pants and every now and then i misjudge a situation (or the truth of some ones friendship) and end up in a bad spot. IE bout 2 years ago, i had a male Friend who i hung out with alot who i thought was really really my friend - until i ended up drunk and passed out over at his house and woke up to them trying to molest me. All this AXEing out of ppl in my life has actually helped a great deal. I no longer end up in situations with guys going "why the hell do they think this is okay?" And old friends who really were just bringing drama and problems into my life and randomly treating me like shit are no longer around.

I have a much better group of friends NOW because MY Master has put forth effort into getting rid of the shit in my life. So no offense, but maybe that is what her Master is doing? Maybe he finds you unacceptable to be in her life and maybe you proved him right with your response?

(in reply to Rumtiger)

Post #: 73

RE: The right thing - 10/7/2006 10:38:17 PM

MistressTexas

Posts: 425
Joined: 5/30/2006
Status: offline

RiotGirl.. Please don't take this as judgemental, but your post scared the living hell out of me. Perhaps look it over as someone not in your situation would. Rumtiger has made it clear (over and over and over and over) that this guy is not his friends Master, nor does he appear to be much of a Master of anything. He happens to be of a dominant personality, and she happens to have a submissive personality. She is not collared to him. Let me repeat, he is not her owner.

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 74

RE: The right thing - 10/7/2006 10:44:42 PM

Aine

Posts: 820
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline

As being one that came from pretty sheltered upbringing, I was definitely one that could be categorized as "naieve". I understand to a point about weeding out people that aren't good for you in the long run, but I believe that for the most part you have to do that for yourself. Having people close to you that are good for you to support you in your descisions is great. But if anyone at all tried to tell me who I could and could not versus who I should and should not talk to and see, I would get pissed. People can have their opinions and it's up to me to look at the situation from their side and decide for myself if it's something I need to fix.

But that's just me.

_____________________________

Honey, you obviously missed the "want to be used as a toilet fetish" thread or "where do I get instructions on setting my sub on fire" thread. LOL

Thank you, DelRay for that one.

(in reply to MistressTexas)

Post #: 75

RE: The right thing - 10/7/2006 10:51:28 PM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

Yeah, i just read the entire thread. Dur i dunno what the situation is. Wait and find out. I just dont think its a bad thing to cut negative influences out of ppl's lives... LOL

oh i knowsssssss i'm a really scarey person. i literally have grown men quake in fear when all 5 feet and 107 lbs of me comes walking towards them. Actually i know what your saying, especially after reading all the OTHER posts, but its not the case. i honestly have allowed alot of negative influences in my life and he has over time and as problems arrived gotten rid of the negative influences and while that sounds scary, i have kept all the GOOD influences. I actually have alot of male friends i stay in contact with.. cos their good ppl. Generally, cos of all the trouble i've had with guys, my Master prefers i dont make "new" male friends. Unless he meets them and realises they are A) good ppl and B) not trying to manipulate me to get into my pants. As terrible as it sounds, its happend alot in my life. And hell = ) Master has this friend who just adores and loves me and has a major crush on me... yet he's a good person so its all good.

so its not scarey at all. Arent you the one with all the conspiracy theories tonight? LOL

(in reply to MistressTexas)

Post #: 76

RE: The right thing - 10/7/2006 10:52:29 PM

MasterC46910

Posts: 108
Joined: 4/17/2006
Status: offline

We also need to understand we are only hearing one side of the story.

Rumtiger..You have made the statement this guy is out of shape and not trained in fighting. Why, as a trained martial artist, are you even considering fighting someone that has not physically threatened you? Was you not trained control of your emotions as well as your skills? The ability to do damage to others comes with certain responsibilities of restrain.

(in reply to MistressTexas)

Post #: 77

RE: The right thing - 10/7/2006 10:59:21 PM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aine

but I believe that for the most part you have to do that for yourself.

But that's just me.

Sometimes ppl just arent very adept at doing things that are good for themselves. Who here exercies every day? Eats all the nutrients they need every day? Drinks 8 glasses of water? Smokes? Drives fast? Wears their seat belt. Hell when he met me, i was still talking to and randomly hanging out with people who shoot up coke amoung other things. Hey - i figured if thats what they want to do, who am i to judge? Plus i had known them all for yeaaaaaaaars. But he decided me being an ex addict, it wasnt the best scene for me to be involved in. Plus i'm in a TPE relationship - with generally a whole lotta freedom. hehehehehehehhehehehe

whose to say the girl in question isnt the same? If we didnt have the "phone convo" we wouldnt know if she knew, if she was in a TPE relationship, if she was a poor decision maker, ect.

(in reply to Aine)

Post #: 78

RE: The right thing - 10/7/2006 11:01:54 PM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterC46910

We also need to understand we are only hearing one side of the story.

very true, he needs to get back on here and elaborate more. i wanna hear the rest!! Hey Rumtiger, any chance you have a "thing" for this girl. i've a male friend of 10 years now that i know loves me to death (and a major thing for me) HATES hearing about my men and infact refuses to remember thier names.. LOLOLOL You sound like you have a thing for her toooo. Course i could be wrong, im verra tired

(in reply to MasterC46910)

Post #: 79

RE: The right thing - 10/7/2006 11:03:16 PM

marieToo

Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterC46910

We also need to understand we are only hearing one side of the story.

Rumtiger..You have made the statement this guy is out of shape and not trained in fighting. Why, as a trained martial artist, are you even considering fighting someone that has not physically threatened you? Was you not trained control of your emotions as well as your skills? The ability to do damage to others comes with certain responsibilities of restrain.

I agree with this. Violence is not going to solve the problem. Kicking his ass isnt going to keep her from being with him. And it could end you up with assault charges.

And yes, you are correct, MasterC, in martial arts one of the first things they emphasize is to avoid the fight at all costs, except in self defense.

_____________________________

marie.

I give good agita.

(in reply to MasterC46910)

Post #: 80

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