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RE: Reply to mons - sick practices - 10/5/2006 5:52:00 PM   
marieToo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

I share the OP's general thoughts....


But, I do consider a person as unhealthy when they knowing engage in activities that WILL and DOES cause HARM to their Well-Being. 


So, would you agree that it's ok for others to do this as well?

How can you agree with the OP, who is basically condeming any type of discrimination for any type of act,  and then state that its ok to consider something sick ("unhealthy" as you put it) if it meets your particular criteria?.  Dont we all have a set of criteria for something we consider sick?  Might those criteria vary from yours or susies, but still be valid to someone else?  

_____________________________

marie.


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RE: Reply to mons - sick practices - 10/5/2006 6:02:07 PM   
marieToo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


I guess the whole idea is that we come to sites like this to be more open about who we are, and yes, all of us are squicked out about something.. that is why sometimes it is not important that I think someone else's kink is not ok... I do not have to voice that opinion, I can keep it to myself, the world will not end.


But other opinions about other things you do voice, for your own reasons.  Shouldnt we all have that option, regardless of the topic?  Be it something barbaric, bdsm-related, political etc?

quote:

There are several kinks I do not get, have no interest in doing, and skip threads relating to them.. but that does not mean these people that enjoy it need me telling them they are "sick" when they talk about what they like...We already know some people think we are sick and deviant


Correct.  Im sure no one "needs" someone to call their kink sick, or to call their politics fucked up, or to argue Roe v Wade, or God vs No God. But we do it anyway, because it's a discussion board.  And people of varying opinions post here.  Should we only talk when we agree with something, like something and approve of it?   



_____________________________

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I give good agita.









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RE: Reply to mons - sick practices - 10/5/2006 6:09:00 PM   
Aine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

Should we only talk when we agree with something, like something and approve of it?   




Debate and an exchange of ideas is one thing.

Telling someone they are wrong is another.

(Which has nothing to do with the topic at hand so don't apply it there, people, I'm speaking in generalities)


_____________________________

Honey, you obviously missed the "want to be used as a toilet fetish" thread or "where do I get instructions on setting my sub on fire" thread. LOL

Thank you, DelRay for that one.

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RE: Reply to mons - sick practices - 10/5/2006 6:13:14 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		You are right, but just like I pointed out to someone an hour or so ago in the Off Topic forum... just because someone vocally tells you they do not like what you say does not mean your right to say it was infringed..

People can say "Your sick", but the backlash to that is there are a bunch of people to jump on them for expressing that opinion...why is one ok, but not the other?

I get jumped on for my opinions all the time, shit at this rate I half way expect it... people have the right to say "You sick bitch, you call your Dom "Daddy".. you are the reason all children get molested".. and then I can say... "You are an ignorant idiot who does not know your ass from a hole in the ground".. see how that works?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Reply to mons - sick practices - 10/5/2006 6:42:55 PM   
marieToo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

You are right, but just like I pointed out to someone an hour or so ago in the Off Topic forum... just because someone vocally tells you they do not like what you say does not mean your right to say it was infringed.

People can say "Your sick", but the backlash to that is there are a bunch of people to jump on them for expressing that opinion...why is one ok, but not the other?


The fact that there is a whole "backlash" when someone thinks something is gross or sick, is exactly my point.  Im talking about an observation that I have made here.  And Im asking why there is no tolerance for those who think something is sick or wrong.  But there is acceptance up the wazoo for those who want to come here and confess that they dream about gauging their subs eyes out as a symbolism of blind obedience.   I mean, while we're busy advocating the tolerance of laying in vomit, lets accept the intolerance of it too.  If Im free to say I like something without a thread getting named after me,  let someone else be free to say they dont like something without the fear of being attacked for it. 


quote:

I get jumped on for my opinions all the time, shit at this rate I half way expect it... people have the right to say "You sick bitch, you call your Dom "Daddy".. you are the reason all children get molested".. and then I can say... "You are an ignorant idiot who does not know your ass from a hole in the ground".. see how that works?


My point is about the free expression of opinion about a particular act without fear of personal attack;  be it negative OR positive opinions.  Im not talking about a tit for tat name-calling contest. Of course anybody has the right to name call.  Hell, we call the president an asshole.  My point is an examination of something that I find remarkable; the intolerance of intolerance.  I was hoping for some input or discussion of this phenomenon, that I may even be guilty of myself at times.  Apparently some will agree, some will disgree but no one wants to discuss the human nature of the action that Im pointing out. 

_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









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RE: Reply to mons - sick practices - 10/5/2006 6:45:42 PM   
marieToo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

I would agree with the non-consentuality.  However, the fact that an act is illegal is irrelevent to the point.  Half of what goes on in wiitwd is illegal. 



I am aware of wiitwd practices frequently being illegal.  However, my objections to most of it stop at the idea of it being between consenting adults.


Sinergy


Understand. :)

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I give good agita.









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RE: Reply to mons - sick practices - 10/5/2006 6:58:06 PM   
FelinePersuasion


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Status: offline 		An animal will not do something it does not wish, you can't force it to lick or fuck something if it don't want to.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

and non-consensual for the animal or child.

Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy

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RE: Reply to mons - sick practices - 10/5/2006 6:58:22 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

The fact that there is a whole "backlash" when someone thinks something is gross or sick, is exactly my point.  Im talking about an observation that I have made here.  And Im asking why there is no tolerance for those who think something is sick or wrong.




Because it reeks of intolerance to tell someone they are "sick"? At least it comes off as insulting, denigrating, and judgmental at the very least... do you see my point?


quote:

 
But there is acceptance up the wazoo for those who want to come here and confess that they dream about gauging their subs eyes out as a symbolism of blind obedience.  


Point me to the thread where people stated this kink was ok with them. I know of someone who intentionally blinds submissives.. the BDSM community here warned me against him... so I would say in real life this is not true.

quote:

I mean, while we're busy advocating the tolerance of laying in vomit, lets accept the intolerance of it too.  If Im free to say I like something without a thread getting named after me,  let someone else be free to say they dont like something without the fear of being attacked for it. 



If we say intolerance is ok, then that gives us a right to be intolerant... perhaps I am running in circles here?...smiles

quote:

My point is about the free expression of opinion about a particular act without fear of personal attack


I see it as a personal attack when someone likens me with an accomplice to child molesting because of a word I call my Dom, which is "Daddy". I have been emailed this personal attack and had it leveled at me here on this board... soooo....if you are going to be rude and state things that you cannot back up (like calling a man daddy will turn him into a pedophile) I am going to be very militant of my attack of that opinion...

quote:

My point is an examination of something that I find remarkable; the intolerance of intolerance.  I was hoping for some input or discussion of this phenomenon, that I may even be guilty of myself at times.  Apparently some will agree, some will disgree but no one wants to discuss the human nature of the action that Im pointing out. 



Hate breeds hate, intolerance breeds intolerance... I have understood this for awhile... it is why I am intolerant of intolerance... and I am not perfect and I have been judgmental, and I know I have.. but to let people denigrate someone's harmless and victimless kink because it makes the person reading about it uncomfortable is not an acceptable way of stopping people from being intolerant.... just a few more words on the subject..Interesting line of discussion though Marie

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

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Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Reply to mons - sick practices - 10/5/2006 8:00:11 PM   
marieToo


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Julia:

I dont not think it reeks of intolerance to say that a particular act is sick or gross.  I think it takes balls to be in the minority and not be afraid to express your thoughts.   To go up to another person and call them a name, well, yeah, then I could understand "backlash", to some extent.  I would also agree that theres a productive way to express oneself and a non productive way.  Although around here, sometimes you're fucked even when you try to say something nicely.  
I think hindering the expression that we think something is gross, or wrong, or 'insane' puts a moratorium on alot of topics that could've been useful exchanges,  but that go unspoken because people are afraid to get jumped on by the masses.

I dont mean something like someone calling you and your Daddy child molesters.  I would be defending myself over that too. Or better yet, simply ignoring it.  But if someone said..."Ya know Julia....Its squicky to me that you call him Daddy, I dont understand it but I would like to".  Would you be able to discuss it without taking it personally?  So many here cannot do this.  The reaction even if asked nicely might go something like this.."Just because you think its squicky doesn't mean it really is, and just because you dont like it or understand it, doesnt means its sick".  blah blah blah.  Now if I don't tell you that I think its squicky, how can you understand where Im coming from when you want to help me understand its meaning ?  In other words, there has to be some expression of some level of negativity for a person to even get their feeling across in order to possibly get "unsquicked" about it.  (I am just using this as an example, because you cited this in your own post.) 

I do understand your meaning....Correct me if Im wrong, but I think what youre saying is basically, If you cant say something nice about someone, dont say anything at all.  But I dont think most sincere people  mean to denigrade a person in these instances that Ive witnessed here.  I honestly believe that some people see certain things as sick.  Why?  I Dont know...If you look at my post in response to Celeste, I even question myself  as to why I see some things as sick and others as ok. As I would see the hypothetical of consensual eye-gouging as sick.  lol. I probably wouldnt tell them its sick though, cuz Id be scared they were going to take my eyes next. That was a fictious example designed to make a point, btw.   Maybe I didnt word it right.  Anyway.... Its not that I want to call someone who eats shit a sick motherfucker.  But I would be lame and cowardly even, to sit here and pretend that I dont think its gross.  Isn't it better to say, "thats gross" than to go away mumbling under my breath "holy shit what a sick motherfucker that one is".  Maybe, in a forum that's specifically designed to talk about deviant acts, we can come to a better understanding of our own discriminations.  But if we go away quietly, cowaring in silence because we're scared of having half of the CM community gang up on us, well, theres something limiting and sad about that.  And I think thats the main undertow around here about everything, not just a particular kink. 

Though I would agree entirely with you that we dont need to be crass in our approach, but the same would apply for the responder.  A little sensitivity goes a long way, on both sides, I suppose. Thanks for indulging me.  No one else does. lol.  You put forth substantial 'arguments', Julia and I appreciate actually having to think, before responding because you make very good points.
 

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RE: Reply to mons - sick practices - 10/5/2006 8:46:44 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

..."Ya know Julia....Its squicky to me that you call him Daddy, I dont understand it but I would like to".  Would you be able to discuss it without taking it personally?


I have tried to explain it even to people who were hostile... they were resistent because.... well they were hostile

I have related that I am squicked by scat play, diapers, drinking urine, drinking blood, needle play does not thrill me either... period play squicks me.. and I get sick thinking about these things and I have not made a secret that I think it is somewhat gross... I have not been jumped on for this opinion. It is when you tell someone "you are sick"  That I think it is denigrating. I can understand some people might be thinking of their real father if they called someone "Daddy", and be squicked and sickened by it. I have never asked those people to justify their feelings and understand that is the way they feel.... but I do draw the line personally with saying "I think this behavior squicks me" ... to... ""people who do this are sick". One implies not liking a behavior, the other is denigrating a person... see my point?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Reply to mons - sick practices - 10/6/2006 3:04:51 AM   
mons


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Status: offline 		bita

you have so many thing going and to end you letter with what ever lol you 46 but you act 18 and there is nothing wrong with a young heart and spirit but you foolish to be angry at everyone who disagrees and you put this ina thread you can not fight you own battles you needed everyone to do it fro you shame on you bit i never will ever need anyone to fight my battles. choice your people you wish to run with

mons

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RE: Reply to mons - sick practices - 10/6/2006 4:05:10 AM   
mons


Posts: 2400
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Status: offline 		skander greetings
 
i always welcome help! i want to tell you i will do this i am such a wonderful speaker and i read so veru well! i did not take it wrong at all i always welcome help from the people here your a very smart person! i do have a very hard time with caps i find if i just type and then put the others thing in i am ok but the caps are so hard. you are more then welcome i hope my wririg is getting better i am a self taught woman and i understand what you mean writ way i talk someone had told me not to use the fancy print, it is much easy for them to read do you think it works? please let me know you kindness is wonderful. take care i hope i spelled you name correctly
 
mons thank you so

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RE: Reply to mons - sick practices - 10/6/2006 4:38:53 AM   
Aileen68


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It appears that unless one chooses to voice an opinion that is supportive of one's kink (not talking the illegal, tabboo ones here folks) they they are going to be crucified by words.  How ironic.  We all seem to forget that we are expressing personal opinions and not universal ideals that are set in stone.   I view it as, if Mons, or anyone, expresses that something is sick and that happens to be something that I like...well, that's probably a person that's not right for me.  Time saved. 
People take things too personally.  I read a lot that makes me go eeewww, that's sick.  I would like to think that I could express that feeling as openly as if I had thought...oh cool.  Obviously not.  Unfortunately, we are in an age of political correctness...true (or twue) opinions have to be altered to avoid those who are just not adult enough to get past what they view as personal criticism.

edited for spelling.

< Message edited by Aileen68 -- 10/6/2006 4:43:20 AM >

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RE: Reply to mons - sick practices - 10/6/2006 7:13:40 AM   
marieToo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I can understand some people might be thinking of their real father if they called someone "Daddy", and be squicked and sickened by it. I have never asked those people to justify their feelings and understand that is the way they feel.... but I do draw the line personally with saying "I think this behavior squicks me" ... to... ""people who do this are sick". One implies not liking a behavior, the other is denigrating a person... see my point?


Yes, I agree about wording things diplomatically,  to a point.  In other words, Im not going to say to some scat person..."you're sick, or you're one nasty motherfucker", but I would say "thats gross", without having to make sure I preface it with the words  "in my opinion".   As Aileen added, in so many words, people here are way too sensitive about those who may not approve of something they do.  And I see a trend here where people who feel negatively about something are expected to keep their mouths shut or they get the old standard "dont judge my kink" line. She actually made my point perfectly in one short post. lol.  (wish I knew how to do that).

For example.....If someone peers into the windows of my house and knocks on my door to tell me my taste in furniture is ugly, that would be out of line--Because they have no business looking into my house, knocking on my door and critisizing my taste.   But if I come out onto a public street where people are walking  by and say "hey I just furnished my house with yellow and orange furniture and it looks beautiful",  Someone might say "eww....thats an ugly color combination".   And if I cant deal with the possibility of that happening without gathering my neighbors and launching a 'backlash',  then maybe I ought not go around publically announcing my personal taste.  Thats all Im saying....If I can say its beautiful, you can say its ugly. Then I can say (as a secure person) why do you find it ugly?  And you might say because my old nasty step aunt used to furnish her house in orange and yellow.  And a conversation might ensue instead of a battle.  

< Message edited by marieToo -- 10/6/2006 7:14:30 AM >

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RE: Reply to mons - sick practices - 10/6/2006 8:41:40 AM   
pinkee


Posts: 487
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mons

greeting susei

you have it wrong i did not say all things people do are not sick i had one thing in mind it was the llifting th hood of a submissive clitors and putting hot hot sauce on it and closes it back if i made some enemy here then so be it i thoufth and still think that was horrible oh yes there are many thing i find not tasteful but i pick that on thing susuie and that was it i think as a season submissive you have been thougth this and enjoy it but susie i am speaking of very new submissive would you think it was ok just to do this i speaking of the very new and some are coming in at 18 which is just a baby, i did not want everyone to get mad it is my opinon and as a domme who has know many things i would never do this to many one who is new no never what the age i think after a time this area would become desnstive and have no feeling that again is my opinion .

there are many thing that are not right but who am i to say. but yesterday they found a dugeon in another part of northern ca. i see many of the new submissive looking for a thrill with a domme they are masichoist and they want the hole thing well this man kill one woman and two maybe missing. i wrote this for on reason you and i and all woman must be careful of whom we choose to go with it is sad that someone can pretend they are a dome and beat a woman to death this is what happen.

i would never tried to tell anyonr of you how to live your life but as someone who seen fakes and people who are not doms hurt others make me mad susie no you do not have to take what i say but i give advice your safe with your dom and i happy for you but 10 other may not be thank you for writing i gotten an insight on what you feel and i respect this so respect my vien point as well
take care susie

mons


Well, evidentially this subject needed more thought than i gave it in my post on the 1st thread.  i agree with mons in principle;  don't have enough medical knowledge to agree with her as to the specific practice of hot sauce on a clit.
 
What does bother me about this thread is that it seems to have begun as an attack -- or at least a spotlight -- on one poster's opinion.  i don't know whether the Op quoted mons' entire post or not; it still seems to me that putting a poster on the hot seat like this is undesirable.  Surely there are better ways to intiate dialogue.
 
Nonetheless, i have also read the Op's posts and find much to agree with there as well.  Maybe Celeste and mons are just talking past one another -- maybe it's a case of "reasonable people can disagree"; i'm not sure.  But they are both eloquent and persuasive.
 
pinkee

< Message edited by pinkee -- 10/6/2006 8:43:33 AM >

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RE: Reply to mons - sick practices - 10/6/2006 12:20:32 PM   
susie


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Joined: 11/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mons

greetings now that my post was hijack to a thread i am surpise at what bita felt that this need to be done.

now when i wrote that post  i was speaking of a man who wrote that to a person questio how can someone do torture more he worte and  i quote " lift up the hood of her clit and put hot sausce under it and then close it" i found this to be sick by the man i never said anyone sub was sick oh i think i did say it to bita she became very upset. i was not speaking of her, when i wrote this if you look back i never called anyone in this group sick i have been a domme for some years now i seen and heard many thing but not once have i call anyone is this group sick oh but i said some thing are sick not th people. bita has taken this to a new level why and what for i do not know, in this place i have found i can write withpout being attack by anyone until now. if i see something that i think is wrong i will say something that is my right i did not call bita sick i did say whom ever taught her that was sick this was to an answer from her to me now i am on a thread where many of the people now thnk i dislike them which is not true st all so al of you who wrote and said things such as who are you to judge me no folks i never would judge you i am a dominant women i alway havemy turn with a slave or submissivi so let this be the last i hoope all with read this and know a hijack thread is a chicken way of fighting a fight she could not fight alone

be well and know i meant one man statement not all of you who have more then kind to me
mons


mons

I must point out that it was me and not bita that posted this on this thread. As I said at the start what bothered me in what you wrote was the fact that you labelled someone as sick for taking part in a practice that you do not like. I totally defend your right to say that you do not like the practice that was being discussed or that that it sickened you. What I did not agree with was the fact that you called someone sick for doing this. In fact you emphasised the fact by saying they were a sick sick person and wrong.

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RE: Reply to mons - sick practices - 10/6/2006 12:32:51 PM   
BitaTruble


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From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mons

bita

you have so many thing going and to end you letter with what ever lol you 46 but you act 18 and there is nothing wrong with a young heart and spirit but you foolish to be angry at everyone who disagrees and you put this ina thread you can not fight you own battles you needed everyone to do it fro you shame on you bit i never will ever need anyone to fight my battles. choice your people you wish to run with

mons


Mons,

I did not start this thread.

I did not try to get someone else to fight my battle for me.

I did not even see your answer on the other thread because it got pulled before I could read your response.

I am not angry with you.

Your facts are wrong and you wrong me by continuing to insist upon things which are not true.

Go back to page one and read the opening post then go look at the name of the person who posted.

It wasn't me.

I don't know how I can make this any clearer.

If you refuse to see what is right in front of you, there is little I can do about it.

You think I act like I'm 18. I disagree. I have presented my argument on this issue without rancor or upset. You are projecting your own feelings and that is your choice.

I wish you well.

Celeste

_____________________________

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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to mons)
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RE: Reply to mons - sick practices - 10/6/2006 12:51:12 PM   
WhipTheHip


Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline 		I consider all bdsm activity sick.   I admit, I get turned on by
some sick things.  I consider anything any activity that
permanently scars the body as not particularly sane. 

_____________________________



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RE: Reply to mons - sick practices - 10/6/2006 1:00:11 PM   
ShiftedJewel


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Joined: 12/2/2004
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quote:



quote:
The fact that there is a whole "backlash" when someone thinks something is gross or sick, is exactly my point.  Im talking about an observation that I have made here.  And Im asking why there is no tolerance for those who think something is sick or wrong.



quote:

Because it reeks of intolerance to tell someone they are "sick"? At least it comes off as insulting, denigrating, and judgmental at the very least... do you see my point?



First... commenting that something someone does is sick, and that was what she was saying.... doesn't "reek" of intolerance...it's only their opinion. Notice she didn't say anything about calling someone sick... What reeks of intolerance is exactly the backlash she is referring to.

quote:

Hate breeds hate, intolerance breeds intolerance... I have understood this for awhile... it is why I am intolerant of intolerance...  


And you do it so well.

_____________________________

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RE: Reply to mons - sick practices - 10/6/2006 1:01:27 PM   
ownedgirlie


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< Message edited by ownedgirlie -- 10/6/2006 1:04:44 PM >

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