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Intimacy - 4/24/2004 2:26:10 PM   
Voltare


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Earlier, I made a short comment on the posting where the couple was frustrated that 3 years, and $6,000 later, they were fed up with the frustrations involved with finding a slave. Since then, I have given thought to my own time and effort invested, as well as the lessons I have learned. These are only my thoughts, and they are appropriate for my situation - I welcome others thoughts, contributions, or criticisms, as we all have different needs in our lives. Three years ago, after my last 'vanilla' relationship ended, I figured it was time to turn my focus more towards a Dominant/submissive style relationship. The irony it seems, is that I have almost come full circle, for reasons that will come clear shortly. As a quick means of illustrating my perspective, I am a twenty seven years old, single, straight male dominant and have enjoyed BDSM now for six years.

When asked, I have never been able to adequately answer the question of why I feel a need for a D/s relationship to others. I usually respond along the lines of desiring a relationship that is structured, where the roles are clearly defined, in spite of the fact that one hardly requires the title of Master or slave to understand their roles in a relationship so long as there is communication. Structure, I believe, comes from mutual expectations and agreement of expectations. If I prefer to do all of the cooking, cleaning, tending of children, like to be spanked, enjoy kneeling for my lover, and enjoy being led on a leash, and yet I like the term 'Master' and my lover/partner/girlfriend/etc is agreeable, then there is hardly any convention that says I cannot be 'Master.' So then, if structure in a relationship stems from an agreement between two people on what is necessary, then D/s would not be necessary.

I usually also say that D/s is appealing because of the degree of intimacy is greater. In order to own a woman, I must know her better then she knows herself, and that such intimacy is not only unusual in ordinary relationships, but indeed seems to be discouraged by our society. Men and women have fought the gender wars since time infinate, and it seems the only winners of these wars, are the couples who, in spite of this battleground, seem to manage to come together to achieve a sense of unity that defies this war. Such romantic visions rarely seem to involve a collar and leash, and in my own experiences there is as great a chance in lacking intimacy in the D/s realm, as there are in the 'vanilla' world.

When pressed, my last resort in justifying my D/s interests seems to be the strongest - that such a relationship simply 'feels right.' I cannot define the who, what, why, or reason to this feeling, but can only acknowlege it exists. Perhaps in part, it is because in my own nature, I enjoy the ability to control and manipulate the world around me. Everything that I create is the result of manipulation and control of the world around me - my writing, for example, is simply manipulation of words. In the music I play, it is notes, rhythms, chords that I am manipulating. This isnt to say I desire a battery operated woman with gears and buttons to push, but rather I enjoy the sense of security that comes with knowing however I wish to touch her, speak to her, hold her, or whatever escapades we engage in, she is a willing and eager companion. In freeing her responsibility to moral expectations, conciously, I am free from the guilt associated with taking a woman from the prim and proper 'real' world, and taking her on a journey with me of the self-discovery that reveals infinate beauty and utter decadence, where fire and ice mingle without losing their forms, where the only reason and right is what she and I share. For me, evocation of such powerful emotions reveals the very essence of what life is made of. In the scope of such a journy, handcuffs, rope, and floggers are no more important to the D/s relationship then a television, pair of bicycles, or a stereo are important to a vanilla relationships.

The real beauty in D/s, or any other relationship is not the extremes of physical, mental, or emotional testing, nor does it come from the breaking of taboos. D/s is beautiful, not because it is D/s, but because it is a relationship - and relationships have the capacity for infinate beauty. Finding the perfect person isnt a matter of their collar size, but in experiencing life. It doesnt take a pair of handcuffs to do this - it simply takes another person. A journey that may start off with a mutual interest in shibari rope bondage will not end there, but ends in the middle of the night, in the space between waking and dreaming, when communication, patience, and hard work have achieved intimacy. As someone who was looking for that intimacy in a computer for those same three years, I can assure most reading this, that the best place to find others is not in a box, but in your real lives.

Stephan


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"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche
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RE: Intimacy - 4/24/2004 7:13:33 PM   
topcat


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From: Tidewater, VA
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quote:

I usually also say that D/s is appealing because of the degree of intimacy is greater.


M. Voltare-

I often wonder, when I hear something like this said (or when I hear myself saying it), if it's actually a case of my being attracted to this stuff becuase I need more structure and security in a relationship before I can be deeply intimate.

Don't get me wrong- your explaination is valid and reasonable, and I read it with interest- I am going a little sideways here.

Do you think that maybe it's not that this stuff makes for a better relationship, but that those of us that are drawn to it need it to compensate for some lack in ourselves?

Stay Warm,
Lawrence

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-there is no remission without blood-

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RE: Intimacy - 4/25/2004 10:34:32 AM   
Voltare


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Lawrence,

I think you made a very good point. I know that when I am cooking, if there isn't enough basil in my pasta sauce one time, I use more the next. More importantly, I don't know that it is important to justify why we do what we do to anyone but ourselves. The fact that we take the time for introspection is what matters most - that we try to understand why we want what we want, but accepting that we won't always find the answer.

In the essay I was more or less saying that while I say D/s offers greater intimacy, the reality is that the intimacy is really not necessarily greater or lesser simply because the relationship is D/s oriented, but because the two people involved - in desiring such a relationship - do what is necessary to create this balance. That the expectation of greater intimacy is on both sides of the table, and by virtue of these mutual expectations, the intimacy occurs.

Maybe there will always be lacks or weaknesses in ourselves and in those around us - I don't think this makes us lacking per se, but rather human. We also have our strengths and virtues - but being patient, kind, or caring has never been seen as 'abnormal.' Being cranky, needing structure, or having ugly feet doesn't make us 'abnormal' but rather more normal.

Stephan


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"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

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RE: Intimacy - 4/25/2004 11:27:47 AM   
topcat


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quote:

I know that when I am cooking, if there isn't enough basil in my pasta sauce one time, I use more the next.


M. Stephan-

I usually use too much the next time <g>.

quote:

The fact that we take the time for introspection is what matters most -


Quite agreed. I think the thing that _really_ sets us apart from the vanilla world is that we spend time _studying_ our relationships, and put a bit more work into their mantaince. Aside from that, I think this stuff is a more primal mode of interaction, and that makes it for the most part a little more intensely intimate.

Stay warm,
Lawrence

< Message edited by topcat -- 4/25/2004 2:30:37 PM >


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-there is no remission without blood-

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RE: Intimacy - 4/25/2004 11:56:59 AM   
LadyBeckett


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It is that place, Stephan, where one can take the hand of another and say, "walk with me". The destination doesn't really matter. It's who you are with, and that interaction, that spiritual, emotional, unspoken connection that is made and maintained. That is Power!......ooooomph!! Intense and intentional!! (I say that a lot! lol)

When I think about being "intimate" with someone, I imagin touching them deep, and very internally, personally, with something very deep, internal and personal to me. Which takes communication, (which is something that is critically important to me) to a whole new level in the relationship. If you were to go up to any one of my submissives right now and say "Quick one word when I say Mistress..." and they will respond, "Communication", right then. Bam! Without hesitation.

Communicating is intimate on its own. We touch the minds of one another. Just imagin that! How many people literally caress our brain cells here every day. Oh it just makes me hummmmmm


_____________________________

Lady Beckett

_______________________________________________

"Submissive boys yearn to fall into their proper place, so the rest of their life will." ~ Lady Beckett

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RE: Intimacy - 4/26/2004 5:01:41 PM   
iwillserveu


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This may sound teacly or maybe like I'm trying to "work" Lady Beckett, but her comment rang true and the metaphor was useful. When I e-mailed her I was only attracted to her mildly as a someone who actually laughed at my jokes! (The way to aman heart is not through his somach but through his funnybone, {or his sternum}) OK, she politely tittered at what I thought were gut busters. (Hey, i'll take what I can get.)

Then we started on a mutual concern. Then I really cared and crossed from being a friendly guy to her dedicated submissive (cyber).

I can play with anyone, but I won't care about the journey only the destination. With her, although I LOVE the destination, the journey is the important thing.

As far back as Moses, the journey was more important than the destination.

Sorry, if it seems like I'm just kissing up to M'Lady.

(By the way, I think that emoticon means maybe I'm overthinking things, I could be wrong.)

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When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

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RE: Intimacy - 4/27/2004 9:43:08 PM   
Checkers


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From: Portland, Oregon
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quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat
Do you think that maybe it's not that this stuff makes for a better relationship, but that those of us that are drawn to it need it to compensate for some lack in ourselves?


Some of the questions raised on these boards are very thought provoking - I wish I were a bit better with words.
Still, I would like to work through a few thoughts~
As an aside, one thing that occurs to me is that there are some who would say that *everyone* seeks in a relationship something to compensate for a lack in themselves...that's one theory, anyway.
Personally, I was raised to believe that talk is cheap. Words are most pleasant, sometimes powerful, and very necessary, but ultimately meaningless in personal relationships without the actions that support them. There was a lot of alcoholism in the little burb where I was raised, and I think this might have played a role in forming my viewpoint. And then, there could be said to be a sort of omnipresent underlying hypocrisy to everyday american life...
But anyway.
In my relationship with my sub, seeing her devotion played out in deed, as well as in word, is very powerful to me.
It is like spelling something out in black and white to me!

Checkers

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RE: Intimacy - 4/28/2004 6:42:39 AM   
slaveofKat


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Ahh, the journey....At the turning out of the subdivision and getting on the onramp stage, D/s relationship and intimacy and emotions are important issues. Which has raised the question of whether one can have a slave and be in a loving romantic relationship at the same time? Which raises the question of What is the difference between a submissive and a slave? To my best knowledge, a submissive retains control over emotions and feelings, and the right to express them, and the right to control the amount and extent of their submissiveness, as opposed to a slave, who has no choice over any matters, including the right to express their opinion. Is there a category somewhere in the middle between the two, or do I have the wrong definitions? Can you have a loving relationship and intimacy with a true slave? We're struggling a little with defining exactly what our D/s relationship is and will become, we want to maintain all of our intimacy, but have slave behavior and absolute deferrence to Mistress's decisions about Everything. Is this possible?

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RE: Intimacy - 4/28/2004 2:25:47 PM   
MistressDREAD


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slave of Kat that issue has been discussed at lenth in
another area of the Boards, I cannot state off hand where
but know it is lenthy in definition.

Lady Beckett You ask My slaves what comes to mind
when the word Mistress is said and Iam about 99%
sure the next word would be Dread. LOL!

yes iwill servu most definatly kissing up!
why not try kissing down for a change huh? LOL!

Checkers I think Your words were just fine and rang true.

Why hello Voltare You been rather busy of late havent You?

topcat...............~ ahhhhh ~ He cooks italian Im in Lust!

Intimacy and Love are two different issues to Me. Intimacy to Me
comes from the time that I spend with each of My slaves and can
be sumthing as simple as learing each others body..... um like teaching
him how to suck My toes ~~smiles REAL big ~~ I love all of My posessions and show them such however Iam NOT inlove with them and
this does not make Our intimate times any * less *

(in reply to slaveofKat)
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RE: Intimacy - 4/28/2004 3:04:22 PM   
topcat


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From: Tidewater, VA
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quote:

He cooks italian Im in Lust!


M. Dread-

I do indeed- also continental, low french, a few danish dishes, middle easten and I am struggling with sushi. My damn sticky rice needs some work.

I do most of the cooking in my relationships, and whats more, in my kitchen, who cooks, cleans.

Stay warm,
Lawrence

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-there is no remission without blood-

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RE: Intimacy - 4/28/2004 3:47:26 PM   
goodwoman


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i have no idea what the answer is... but i have noticed something.. a characteristic that differs in some of the Dominants i've met (my personal experience is limited to male Dom/female sub relationships).


type 1
some of the male Dominants really LIKE & LOVE women, i can see it in His eyes, His smile, His touch.. This type of male Dominant seems to view taking a woman into subspace as both something He gives her and something He enjoys partially because the submissive enjoys it. His energy and joy in Dominating create such an amazing dance between the two. this type of Dominant man seems more comfortable with creating an intimate relationship.

type 2
another type of male Dominant seems somewhat emotionally and mentally distant -- i get the impression He is somewhat edgy around a woman if He lacks complete control -- for that reason i also think that even though He is very attracted to women, He doesn't want to really adore the woman who submits to Him. its almost as if He is uncomfortable around the same women he is attracted to! This type of Dominant man has a very strong "D" energy, but it isnt quite the same "dance" between the two. this type of Dominant man seems to prefer to know His submissive(s) intimately, but also seems to avoid His own intimate involvement.

i dont know any other way to explain it.

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RE: Intimacy - 4/28/2004 8:09:45 PM   
MistressDREAD


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OooOOoHHhhhHHhhh
simply remember three
cups of water, pinch salt
one and a half cup of rice
wait for the water to boil
to add the rice and put
the rice into a bowl and
rince it off befor adding
to boiling water. This gets
rid of the stickies.......
once the rice comes to
a full boil either on a stove
or in a microwave remove
from heat and cover and let
set for 20 mins with out
opening the top, then
fork fluff and wa~laa~

(in reply to goodwoman)
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RE: Intimacy - 4/28/2004 8:14:05 PM   
MistressDREAD


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opsssss all most forgot
its the rolling and chilling
that forms the rice with
in your roll for slicing
with the sushi ~wink~
You know whats added
to the water splash to
make the rice become
sticky dont cha?? ~smiles~

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RE: Intimacy - 4/28/2004 8:15:27 PM   
MistressDREAD


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omg OMG!!!!
are WE getting
intimate here??
OOoooOOOhhHH!!!

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RE: Intimacy - 4/28/2004 8:22:26 PM   
MistressDREAD


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OK OK Ill tell Ya
My intimately special
recipe if Ya lick Ya lips.
3 tsp of rock sugga
a third cup of rice
wine vinegar heated
and folded lightly into
the rice use right away
to make your seaweed
sushi rolls, chill

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RE: Intimacy - 4/29/2004 3:46:37 PM   
topcat


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M. Dread-

quote:

rice wine vinegar heated


AHA! you heat it?

that might be the answer!

Ever make Monkfish sushi? It's all I have in the way of fish handy- I was going to make it 'francse, but I might try it sushi to see if the heated vinger does the trick....

Stay warm,
Lawrence

_____________________________

-there is no remission without blood-

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RE: Intimacy - 4/29/2004 4:12:57 PM   
topcat


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From: Tidewater, VA
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Midear Good'-

I'd have to say that I fall into the type 1 catagory- my work is very intimate, connective, and largely based on my drive to manipulate the inner by way of working the outer.

I do think that the reason that this stuff works so much better for me is that I feel a greater abilty to trust someone who surrenders to me in such a fashion.....

But it's a tough thing to put a point on...

Stay warm,
Lawrence

_____________________________

-there is no remission without blood-

(in reply to goodwoman)
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RE: Intimacy - 4/29/2004 4:14:36 PM   
topcat


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Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
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quote:

seeing her devotion played out in deed,


M. Checkers-

That's the sort of thing I was thinking of-

Excellent reply.

Stay warm,
Lawrence

_____________________________

-there is no remission without blood-

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RE: Intimacy - 4/29/2004 4:24:18 PM   
MistressDREAD


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well the livers of the monkfish yes its
really good when smoked first *hint*
for the sushi and dont forget the melted
sugar rock ~wink~
and then use the tail for Your francse
the rest of the fish is not edible oh yea
where I come from We call the fish sea
devil and eat all kinds of fish every day... ~smiles~

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RE: Intimacy - 5/3/2004 7:51:53 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

type 1
some of the male Dominants really LIKE & LOVE women, i can see it in His eyes, His smile, His touch.. This type of male Dominant seems to view taking a woman into subspace as both something He gives her and something He enjoys partially because the submissive enjoys it. His energy and joy in Dominating create such an amazing dance between the two. this type of Dominant man seems more comfortable with creating an intimate relationship.


This is the type of Dominant I have always strived to be. Playing with my submissive is fun and all, but cuddling with her as she shivers in aftercare and nestles her face into my chest is almost transcendant for me.

I once described the feelings I have in that moment as my DomSpace.

Sinergy

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"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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