RE: confused

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raiken -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 11:52:23 AM)
Fast Reply: quote: ORIGINAL: unknowndesires hello to A/all...as i am new here i have alot of questions that need to be answered but will start with just one... if you knew from the start your sub/slave was straight...would you try to change her or force her to be with another woman? i work on the premise that when i enter into a relationship, that the fulfillment will be mutually exchanged. If you feel that this will be lopsided..time to rethink your descisions. In all fairness though...sometimes what we think are limits in the beginning, may not be so once we gain new perspectives and experiences. Limits change, desires change...being open to having new experiences is not such a bad thing. However, if after you try to break or stretch a hard limit and still find nothing fulfilling in it, then it is time to reevaluate your relationship. Demanding someone to do what goes against their grain and internal wiring, is not often a productive or fulfilling experience and can lead to bitterness and resentment down the road. Changing ones orientation has to come from within, no one else can force it or make it so, no one else can plant that type of desire in another being, no one has that type of godly power, it has to be a personal descision as i see it. However, if you are ordered to just play with someone from time to time, and it was discussed ahead of time...then yes, you obey that directive. Playing with another woman has little to do with changing an orientation, it ihas everything to do with obedience, which is the dynamic you willingly entered into. If on the other hand, this was not discussed prior to the relatoinship, then you have some options....either try it for the first time and allow yourself the experience, in making a sincere attempt to obey and please the dominant, or, if you can't bring yourself to try it now, perhaps ask if you could have some time to think about it and have another try when you may be more open. Just a few thoughts and ideas...that may or may not have been posted already...i am always late on stuff. *grin

sweetnurseBBW -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 11:53:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fckmeimirish understand that almost all slaves and subs, either conciously or subconciously, test thier Dom's/Master's strength of conviction and self-control on a periodic basis by breaking a rule or omitting a duty, simply because they must feel that strength in order to feel their respective submission. Shawn Thats a pretty general statement. Doing as stated is really being a brat. I dont feel the need to break a rule to feel submissive. I know who has the authority in our relationship that is a boundary never crossed. Obedience is expected as a slave to be defiant to feel submissive is just silly. I get my strength from serving and pleasing my Master.

fckmeimirish -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 12:17:06 PM)
Firstly, any woman trying to convince me that she hasn't one bit of brat in her is really working her way uphill (chuckles). That was a very general statement that covers not only slaves and subs, but also most vanilla women too. A woman has to repect you to be attracted to you, right? You're a woman, you know that. To respect you, she must test you in some way, and you must pass those tests. Once you pass those big initial tests ... then, in order for her to respect you ... she has to see that you are going to stay on top of your game at all times by throwing out an occassional pop quiz. Sometimes I'm not sure you all even realize that you're doing it ... its intrisic to your natures ... or at least that's my opinion. It doesn't necessarily have to be an ommited duty or anthing so overt ... but you do it in some way or another I'm certain. I bet your Master would have a great big chuckle with me telling me about your cute little method of testing him ... and I say that with confidence because of how highly you speak of Him ... He must recognize the test because He is clearly ace-ing it. With all that said, though, I agree its bratty when done to any repetitive degree ... I have just come to expect that from the feminine creatures I love so well ... and I have learned over the years that making a science out of knowing how to pass the tests makes them fewer ... and makes women wildly attracted to you at the same time.

LaTigresse -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 12:33:36 PM)
Juuuuuuussst remember that not all "feminine creatures" care to be called girls. I assume not all male creatures wish to be called boys, non?

sweetnurseBBW -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 12:36:39 PM)
That is definatley your opinion but I dont share that.

pinkee -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 12:47:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Celeste43 I always think this is an example of utter rudeness. If he decided to bring another woman in and demanded I act in a sexual manner with her, I might submit but I would not enjoy myself, I would find what I was doing offensive, she would know immediately that I found her distasteful and unpleasant. So how could this theoretical other woman enjoy the encounter when she knew that I found sex with her to be the most disgusting thing possible? I also would not enjoy myself and would make it clear that her touching me made my skin creep. What kind of enjoyment would there be for anyone in a situation where I was obviously unhappy if not actively vomiting? When a dom/me says he/she is going to do this, despite the feelings of their sub I always wonder if they bother to explain to the third ahead of time how the sub feels about it. Because it is rude to the third to spring this on them. Assuming you haven't been allowed to meet the third and explain this to them yourself that you hate the idea of this and that you find the idea of sex with them to be so unpleasant. The other thing is that by crossing someone's moral boundaries you risk the relationship. Trust will be broken. Personally I think it's important to have this discussion early and to set your boundaries clearly. i could not agree more. This is a HARD limit for me, and i would immediately leave any "Dom" who failed to respect ANY hard limit of mine. i also agree it is terribly unfair to the other woman. pinkee

fckmeimirish -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 1:05:56 PM)
I hope that by my saying that I love you feminine creatures you understand that the term "girls" was not used in any way to imply disrespect ... still though ... I do find myself correcting a woman when she calls me a boy ... so I guess I can't be a hypocrite about it. I edited it to better reflect that.

Daddy4Princess4 -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 1:16:49 PM)
How does one consent to "forced bi"? This is one of those difficult situations, because almost by definition we try to push limits, as long as they are not "hard" ones. quote: ORIGINAL: Nikolette Nope. I absolutely would not, ever, force someone to do something sexual to another person unless they had consented to "forced bi". I believe that it would negatively affect them and their sexuality in the long term and I just wouldn't want to do that. It doesn't matter or not whether I "could" by our agreement of TPE. I DO enjoy testing some limits, hard or otherwise just for the sense of control and excitement-but this is simply one I wouldn't push. I know first hand how manipulating someone who is under your influence to do things sexually that they really really don't want to is unhealthy and damaging. I would also strongly question anyone's ethics who forced me to do something I believe would damage me if I explained it to them fully.

kyraofMists -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 2:12:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mavis quote: ORIGINAL: TxBadMan if I tell my slave to sleep with another women, she's going to without any questions being asked. i understand the right reserved to do that, in theory.. but in practice, would You REALLY subject the extra girl to this, assuming she isn't another of Your slaves? How would You go about convincing a 3rd party to join an unwilling partner? Your dynamic already has consent figured out, but to that extra girl... You're asking HER to participate sexually with at least one partner that hasn't consented to HER. I know this wasn't directed to me, but as a slave if I were given in this context you could not say that I am unwilling. When I entered into the relationship with my Lord, I basically said that I am willing do whatever he wanted me to do as long as it did not harm my well-being. When I entered the relationship, I knew that being given to others for sexual use was something that he wanted to do and would do with me. So the third party would not be having sex with someone unwilling. However they may be having sex with someone who does not get any sexual gratification out of the act. But there is a big difference between unwilling and not gratified. Knight's kyra

Mavis -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 2:39:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kyraofMists So the third party would not be having sex with someone unwilling. However they may be having sex with someone who does not get any sexual gratification out of the act. But there is a big difference between unwilling and not gratified. Knight's kyra kyra, you're exactly right. i guess because i am bi, my feeling is the 3rd... having sexual intimacies with someone who isn't attracted or even half-assed interested in me strikes the exact same chord as non-consent. i understand how my words could have been read as the 3rd didn't agree to obey / consent, but i meant, eager, sexually interested type of consenting. Which is why i mentioned the hiring of an outsider who wouldn't have the expectation of being attractive to all (or any) of the parties involved. i really think there is a slight bit of difference in the D/s M/s flavor and use of the word consent and the consenting of nillas uninvolved in our dynamics. Because all of my bisexual stuff goes on absent of D/s or M/s, i think in terms of "using" any time a partner would be less than thrilled, or involving someone for reasons less than relationship, attraction, or mutual satisfaction of some type.

ownedgirlie -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 2:48:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mavis quote: ORIGINAL: TxBadMan if I tell my slave to sleep with another women, she's going to without any questions being asked. i understand the right reserved to do that, in theory.. but in practice, would You REALLY subject the extra girl to this, assuming she isn't another of Your slaves? How would You go about convincing a 3rd party to join an unwilling partner? Your dynamic already has consent figured out, but to that extra girl... You're asking HER to participate sexually with at least one partner that hasn't consented to HER. (Ok, i also realise in practice, a hooker could be paid to be the 3rd, "convincing" someone to play against consent isn't the only way this can be worked.) In my case, Master has never made me do something he did not feel I was completely prepared to do. He gets no pleasure if I am doing something I'm ambivalent about, or turned off by, as he most enjoys seeing me lustful. However, I have come to really get off on his pleasure, so while something may not seem appealing to me on the outset, his pleasure or amusement by it lights my fire, and that's what makes it enjoyable for me. However, he prepares me for those things which are extreme for me, so when the time comes to act on it, I am willing and ready for it. I do not consider myself bi-sexual, but that would not deter me from playing with another female for him or with him. Many things I do for him are things I would not do on my own, but with him they are my pleasures. For me, it is the context of my relationship to him which makes things enjoyable. I realize this is not necessarily a shared view amongst posters, but it's my personal take on it.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 4:07:05 PM)
And also let me point out something that should be obvious but rarely ever seems to be. Just because a girl is bi, does NOT mean she's going to want to fuck any other female piece of human meat you put in front of her. Thus, you have the same "dilemma" of dealing with a straight female.

eyesopened -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 4:27:57 PM)
i had known a particular Dom for many years but had never played together. we found ourselves in a situation where we started seeing each other slightly more than casually but not collared or committed at all. One evening i was at His place when there was a knock on the door and a girl came in and was introduced to me as His slave. He directed her to perform sexual acts on me and told me He had invited her over for my "entertainment". i am straight, and submissive period. i tried to be with this girl who so very obviously hated what she was doing. i hated it too. HE was oblivous to how much she and i both hated it. i couldn't ask her for any service because i was still in shock that He'd arranged this "event" without mentioning it to me or to her. He wanted to "surprise" me with this "gift". By the time the girl started sobbing hysterically, He went to comfort her and i got dressed and went home and i never saw the guy again. That was 20 years ago and i remember it like it was yesterday and still wonder who had any real enjoyment that evening.

SirMoi -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 5:30:19 PM)
Hmmm...I've always been of the opinion that a Master's primary responsibilities are to cherish, protect, guide and respect his submissive or slave. It's an awesome responsibility that few fully appreciate. Having said that, you have posed a very good question. The answer will depend on what was revealed, discussed and negotiated at the beginning of the relationship. Did this particular girl indicate the she wanted her limits pushed? Did she put forward any 'hard limits'? Did she indicate a curiousity towards being with another woman? You have left much unsaid and undefined. If my girl was curious, I might push that limit, but I would also respect her wishes if she was absolutely against it. I do not believe in forcing her into something that would certainly affect her trust in me as her 'Protector'. I have contempt for the Dom who feels that his submissive must do what he says, no matter what, just because he's the Dom and feels it's his right to demand anything in spite of the potential for fallout or disaster. I would suggest that such a Dom should spend some time as a bottom! My 2 cents worth.

unknowndesires -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 5:37:04 PM)
thank you SirMoi for your response....and yes right from the very beginning i had told Him that i was not interested in other females.i have never even fantasied about it.i dont mind being pushed but in this area it was a definite no.thank you again for the response

TxBadMan -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 5:42:52 PM)
quote: but in practice, would You REALLY subject the extra girl to this, assuming she isn't another of Your slaves? How would You go about convincing a 3rd party to join an unwilling partner? Your dynamic already has consent figured out, but to that extra girl... You're asking HER to participate sexually with at least one partner that hasn't consented to HER. IN theory, since my girl actualy is bisexual...so in theory...if she was not: since I don't do casual play of any kind, and that includes sex for myself or her with others, any 3 rd party who joined Ally in such a activity would already know of her dislike for women. So, the answer to whether or not I would be forcing a 3rd party would not apply.

Tikkiee -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 7:56:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: unknowndesires hello to A/all...as i am new here i have alot of questions that need to be answered but will start with just one... if you knew from the start your sub/slave was straight...would you try to change her or force her to be with another woman? I was talking about this with the man that I am currently with. He's poly and knows that I am not bisexual. It was something that we used t actually discuss before we ever became involved with each other. Though he has made it very clear that it would be his decision if I were to ever have sexual relations with his other girl, he has also said that he would not force the issue with me. He told me once that it is sweeter when it's done willingly.

diamonddreamlove -> RE: confused (10/7/2006 12:33:02 AM)
Have been faced with this situation. Is very difficult to decide if the relationship is worth the energy and compromise of my value. I am not bi and neither is He. But i am His sub and although i am not collared right now i do obey Him. It is much easier for me to play with another woman if she is domme rather than another sub/slave. I suppose that is the power coming into play. Even tho I am not bi i still try to enjoy what i am doing to please Him. Sometimes that means taking a deep breath and obeying without question.

Nikolette -> RE: confused (10/7/2006 1:59:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Daddy4Princess4 How does one consent to "forced bi"? This is one of those difficult situations, because almost by definition we try to push limits, as long as they are not "hard" ones. By telling me that their natural sexuality isn't bisexual but that they are open to playing sexually with someone of the same gender as long as its initiated by me. This is what makes "forced" because they aren't actually bisexual and they only want to do those things at the request of their Dom/me. If they are not bisexual and say "I don't want to have anything to do with someone of my gender sexually." then that just simply does not happen. Basically its the same way anyone consents to anything "forced"- by clearly outlining what they will do in certain situations. Since I enjoy boy on boy/forced bi/willingly bi whatever its something that ~I~ make sure I inquire about, before getting into a long term relationship. The responsibility to communicate is a two way road.

LadyHugs -> RE: confused (10/7/2006 4:25:02 AM)
Dear unknowndesires, Ladies and Gentlemen; Only speaking for my personal style of dominance; I don't change people's sexual nature. I'm sure there might be curious moments of what it may be like but, that is not a set in stone sexuality shift. Submission does not mean abuse. To 'force' against one's will is abusive, that is not what modern BDSM, S&M, M/s and or D/s is all about. That is why there is a thing called negotiations. If you don't want to be part of a man's sexual fantasy by being in a sexual act with same sex or tri-sex with a woman and man--by all means make it a hard limit. Although I wouldn't mind seeing two men having sex with each other but, I wouldn't force them to do so. Most men who I've met will have that desire before I enter their lives. Respectfully submitted for consideration, Lady Hugs

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