RE: confused

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LadyHugs -> RE: confused (10/7/2006 4:32:05 AM)
Dear sweetnurseBBW, Ladies and Gentlemen; On adding what sweetnurseBBW said; it is also a duty of a dominant not to put a slave and or submissive into a position, where disobedience is the result. Putting all the future possibilities on the table, is only fair. Not allowing boundaries large enough to allow change, as to put a slave into a position as to make them feel cornered and disobey is not my personal choice of domination. Obedience should come from wanting to please, not fearing the consequences if they don't obey but, hurt themselves non-consensually, such as doing something against their sexual nature. Personally--I hope to never put a slave in a no-win case scenerio. Respectfully submitted for consideration, Lady Hugs

Mavis -> RE: confused (10/7/2006 4:47:18 AM)
The more i read this thread, the more i am getting personally Phreeked. i'm doubting my own ability to judge motives! i'm wondering, if the few times i have played triads, is it possible i was not anything more than a walking, talking sex toy / gift for the ladies partner? i thought the women i was with were enjoying what i was enjoying, an attraction, a good time, some intimacy that was motivated by genuine interest. Now i'm shocked at how many of the women i think of as with good character that would have been willing to use me, or any other consenting woman as a pawn in their points game with their man. Geez, if i am going to be used as a peice of meat.. at least let me in on the game so i can get a humiliation kink out of the deal. Do we REALLY have to go thru the feminist movement again to cover the ladies side of the equation? March on DC, carry signs that say "Bisexual women are not inanimate objects", stage sit-ins, burn our corsets? WTF? It should never have to be said that "useing live humans as sex toys without their knowledge is a hard limit".. Dogs get that much respect. How women can use each other this way is ... shameful. just shameful.

pinkee -> RE: confused (10/7/2006 6:27:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mavis The more i read this thread, the more i am getting personally Phreeked. i'm doubting my own ability to judge motives! i'm wondering, if the few times i have played triads, is it possible i was not anything more than a walking, talking sex toy / gift for the ladies partner? i thought the women i was with were enjoying what i was enjoying, an attraction, a good time, some intimacy that was motivated by genuine interest. Now i'm shocked at how many of the women i think of as with good character that would have been willing to use me, or any other consenting woman as a pawn in their points game with their man. Geez, if i am going to be used as a peice of meat.. at least let me in on the game so i can get a humiliation kink out of the deal. Do we REALLY have to go thru the feminist movement again to cover the ladies side of the equation? March on DC, carry signs that say "Bisexual women are not inanimate objects", stage sit-ins, burn our corsets? WTF? It should never have to be said that "useing live humans as sex toys without their knowledge is a hard limit".. Dogs get that much respect. How women can use each other this way is ... shameful. just shameful. It does seem as if this is a common Male fantasy.....watching or participating in a 3some with two women, who also pleasure one another. IME, there is no concurrent fantasy running rampant through women (straight, gay or bi) to sleep with two Men at the same time. Some female members have stated in posts that gay male porn is a huge turn-on for them, but i still think the ratio of Men to women who desire a 3some with two members of the opposite sex is prolly slanted on the side of Men. Given that premise, it seems to me some Men may be behaving rather selfishly and carelessly when "arranging" a 3some scene. IMHO, a Dom is never careless or selfish to this degree. And having said that, IMHO, i tend to look askance at Men who proclaim They would "force" Their subby or slave into a 3some, regardless of the feelings of either woman. pinkee

KnightofMists -> RE: confused (10/7/2006 6:33:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mavis The more i read this thread, the more i am getting personally Phreeked. i'm doubting my own ability to judge motives! i'm wondering, if the few times i have played triads, is it possible i was not anything more than a walking, talking sex toy / gift for the ladies partner? i thought the women i was with were enjoying what i was enjoying, an attraction, a good time, some intimacy that was motivated by genuine interest. How is it being "Used" if you enjoyed the experience?

Mavis -> RE: confused (10/7/2006 7:14:30 AM)
Well, i have calmed down some. To answer Your question KoM Sir, yes. If i may illustrate with a slightly different example.. Friends of O/ours, married for some 15 years, one of the fav stories now is how they met. It was a classic, two guys in a bar wagering over a girl. "50 bucks says you can't get in her pants tonight" Guy took the bet, got her dancing, got her interested, got in her pants, spent the 50 bucks on the flowers he brought her for the next date. She didn't find out about the bet won until 3 months before the wedding. They broke up for 6 weeks while she sorted out her feelings about it. Did she love the guy? yes. Did she sleep with him willingly because she was attracted to him? yes. Did she feel used? Of course. Used, foolish, taken, joked about, and forever she saw that friend as someone who never would take his buddies marriage seriously because he knew it all started on a 50 dollar bet. Still, she went on to marry and have a wonderful life, so the bet can be a joke now. But the feelings were quite real, and IMHO, quite valid. That's how i feel right now. Now, to muddy the waters a bit, i have played triad with a gal friend because she was bi, but her main interest was in providing a special experience for her man. i loved the feeling that we were giving him the holy grail, and helping her supply his fantasy did turn me on. i would do it again for those same reasons. It's fun to fulfil somebody's fantasy. But the diff was i knew that going in and made the choice with that info in hand.

amlonging -> RE: confused (10/7/2006 12:29:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: unknowndesires hello to A/all...as i am new here i have alot of questions that need to be answered but will start with just one... if you knew from the start your sub/slave was straight...would you try to change her or force her to be with another woman? Since I will not read all the posts in reply...someone has probably said this already ... "Changing" another human being is not your option but theirs. "Forcing" is your choice and dependent on the others' will to fully be "obedient" to your will. If I were that "other," I would wonder about the respect level and your intent from the very beginning. my 2 cents

Tikkiee -> RE: confused (10/7/2006 12:45:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mavis The more i read this thread, the more i am getting personally Phreeked. i'm doubting my own ability to judge motives! i'm wondering, if the few times i have played triads, is it possible i was not anything more than a walking, talking sex toy / gift for the ladies partner? i thought the women i was with were enjoying what i was enjoying, an attraction, a good time, some intimacy that was motivated by genuine interest. Now i'm shocked at how many of the women i think of as with good character that would have been willing to use me, or any other consenting woman as a pawn in their points game with their man. Geez, if i am going to be used as a peice of meat.. at least let me in on the game so i can get a humiliation kink out of the deal. Do we REALLY have to go thru the feminist movement again to cover the ladies side of the equation? March on DC, carry signs that say "Bisexual women are not inanimate objects", stage sit-ins, burn our corsets? WTF? It should never have to be said that "useing live humans as sex toys without their knowledge is a hard limit".. Dogs get that much respect. How women can use each other this way is ... shameful. just shameful. I am going to be completly and totally blunt here. I said earlier that I was not bisexual, I have absolutly no interest in women at all. I have tried it once, and the experience was a total disaster because I DID NOT ENJOY IT, even though I instigated it. The man I am with now, he knows this and has stated to me that he WILL NOT FORCE me to be with another woman because of this. Yet, as I let myself fall deeper and deeper under his control, I find myself thinking more and more of asking him if I can do this with a woman. Not becasue I WANT to, but because I KNOW how much it would please him if I asked. Now, I have even mentioned this to him. His response to me was 'maybe, but probably not'. Why? Becasue he still knows how much it disgusts me to do something like that. Yet, I am willing to. There is nothing shameful in that at all. If the other side of the coin was flipped and he asked his other girl to go down on me, even though he knows that it disgusts me, I am still going to allow it to happen. Not becasue I fear saying no to him. But because I know how much pleasure he gets from seeing me surrender to something like this. I don't look at it as giving or receiving pleasure from another girl; I look at it as his pleasure in the act is what allows me to find pleasure in submitting to such a thing. From either side of the coin.

LadyHugs -> RE: confused (10/7/2006 1:31:07 PM)
Dear Mavis, Ladies and Gentlemen; I am not sure if the question was directed towards me or not but, if put into a position of abuse, being taken advantage of or being forced sexually against a hard limit issue--I would not wish the women to be used in that manner period. Unfortunately, no matter if vanilla or not, we see instances of women manipulating other women as to get the attention of men and vice versa. Men run with fantasies of being in the 'production' 'producer' of live porn or kinky sex--the results can be most destructive. This is where, in my mind's eye I see--where it may be dangerous. Additionally to the thrusting of two women together, as exampled set forth by the Original Poster; there is nothing mentioned about sexual health. With as many diseases sexually transmitted and infections; having tests before hand and such. The question should be--is a few moments of sexual bliss worth the risk. Passing STD's and infections partner to partner; is rather difficult for me to justify for a sudden moment of poor judgment. Evvvvvvverybody should be tested. And, yet--you can be tested in the morning, the individual can be having sex with others and then that evening, join in with you--still is a potential to pick up something from that mid-day romp on the sheets. Everybody is entitled to respectful, responsible and safe 'sex.' Respectfully submitted for consideration, Lady Hugs

LadyHugs -> RE: confused (10/7/2006 1:36:34 PM)
Dear Mavis, Ladies and Gentlemen; Mavis, that is the point -- at least you knew the 'intent' of what and whys of the sexual interaction with another woman. No hidden agendas, no sneaking or trickery. If there is not hidden agenda, no trickey, no sneaking --it allowed both of you young lassies to make an adult, consensual and time to negotiate the nitty gritty of the intended sexual moments. Being informed--you went in with eyes wide open. The Original Poster, in my mind's eye wasn't afforded such luxury. It seemingly was thrusted on her like a Halloween's Trick and wasn't a treat. Respectfully submitted for consideration, Lady Hugs

Mavis -> RE: confused (10/7/2006 2:26:31 PM)
Tikkiee.. and others looking for advice in this matter, i'm sorry. i'm my haste to explain my personal feelings, i kind of expected the reader to devine my fuller meaning. As i mentioned in my last comment, being asked to help a friend fulfill her mans fantasy can be very hot in itself. The two of you planning a surprise can make it doubly hot for Him. i was trying to make the point that if someone persues this, just please make sure the 3rd knows the gig. If it weren't so damn illegal, i'd be a Professional Triad Fairy, it can be that much fun.. the act in and of itself isn't what i was ranting about, it was informed consent. LadyHugs, thank You for seeing thru my red eyes and steam to the point i was making.

aurora31 -> RE: confused (10/8/2006 2:24:57 AM)
pinkee...You might be suprised by just how mant women do fantasize about being with two men. But becuase it is viewed poorly by society in genral they don't voice it for fear of being judged. aurora

MistressMelissa -> RE: confused (10/8/2006 7:52:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: unknowndesires if you knew from the start your sub/slave was straight...would you try to change her or force her to be with another woman? Back to the original question. First, just because two people of the same sex, have sex, does not make them gay or bi. Unless there is an attraction it is simply an act. Second, it depends upon the original negotiations of the relationship which I suspect there was little to none. Third, there are some slaves/subs that would do things they disliked purely for the pleasure of their owner and they would find pleasure in being found pleasing. Man are they special. Four, as an owner it is my personal responsibility to ensure I ask nothing of those I own that would physically or mentally harm them. Five, you can't change someones sexual or gender identity. Six, if this is really what he wants and the girl is unwilling to provide it, then he should consider releasing her or she should beg release. Other than that we don't know enough details to say anything else. It's between the girl and her owner to communicate and negotiate. The rest of this thread is just personal bias placed upon a very vague question. Although I have enjoyed fckmeimirish's views and LadyHugs your elegant as always. Remember, only you have the power to be offened. Thank you,

agirl -> RE: confused (10/8/2006 8:00:37 AM)
I am in accord with your view here, fckmeimirish, This is because it resonates with my relationship. Testing boundaries tends to be seen as brattiness.....it isn't always and it doesn't have to done in some bratty way, either. I certainly pull on my leash and it's understood and responded to. He knows that there are times when it's good for me to feel that leash yanked and I am grateful that he yanks hard. I struggle for control sometimes and am given my head.....just enough for me to see JUST what it's like to have it........and, I don't like it and willingly hand him the end of my leash again. I do have to be reminded why I chose this, I do have to see that not only CAN he master me, but he WILL. That doesn't mean that I wander around behaving badly......but there are circumstances in life that throw me and that yank is reassuring. There are other times when I just tell him that I'm revolting. As for the sex with another female.....submitting requires me to do some things that I don't want to........I don't have to question the why's.......I chose his authority and that's what I got. agirl

Tikkiee -> RE: confused (10/8/2006 9:01:39 AM)
quote: Tikkiee.. and others looking for advice in this matter, i'm sorry. i'm my haste to explain my personal feelings, i kind of expected the reader to devine my fuller meaning. I aplogize if my words were offensive in any way Mavis. Much like you, I was running on emotions when I wrote what I said and most probably did not convey my thoughts very well. I understand what you were saying and would like to add, that I agree totally. The second girl should always be aware of the feelings of ALL involved.

pinkee -> RE: confused (10/8/2006 11:56:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aurora31 pinkee...You might be suprised by just how mant women do fantasize about being with two men. But becuase it is viewed poorly by society in genral they don't voice it for fear of being judged. aurora Well, while i appreciate your opinion/factoid/belief, my opinion is based on: dishing the dirt with my girlfriends for some 40 years now; the fact that porn magazines for Men proliferate while i'm not even sure "Playgirl" is still in publication; my rather extensive reading of erotica written by women; etc., etc., etc. However, one reason i come to these boards is to learn. i have learnt from you today, and i thank you. pinkee

RiotGirl -> RE: confused (10/8/2006 4:18:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania This is a soft limit for me and I am not bisexual. I am not disgusted by it either, it does not go against my morals. I have a hard limit about sharing my Daddy with other women though. This was agreed upon before we started a dynamic. People should really think about what is outside of their limits before they engage in a dynamic with someone and it would avoid these situations... What if you are new to a D/s relationship and you really havent a clue completely what your limits are, because you havent been in a situation yet? Say you have yet to explore being with a woman.. and in the course of the relationship you explore it and find it distasteful. Then what? Are you held and bound by the agreements at the begining of the relationship? Do things change? Does the sub work on dealing with it as in the beginign of the relationship things were left wide open and she hadnt shut any doors? Sometimes things can not be discussed in the begining because one hasnt yet explored things.

IrishMist -> RE: confused (10/8/2006 4:25:11 PM)
quote: if you knew from the start your sub/slave was straight...would you try to change her or force her to be with another woman? Try to change her orientation? no Force? no encourage exploration? I would certainly hope so [:D]

fckmeimirish -> RE: confused (10/9/2006 10:50:50 AM)
Yet, as I let myself fall deeper and deeper under his control, I find myself thinking more and more of asking him if I can do this with a woman. Not becasue I WANT to, but because I KNOW how much it would please him if I asked. Now, I have even mentioned this to him. His response to me was 'maybe, but probably not'. Why? Becasue he still knows how much it disgusts me to do something like that. Yet, I am willing to. There is nothing shameful in that at all. If the other side of the coin was flipped and he asked his other girl to go down on me, even though he knows that it disgusts me, I am still going to allow it to happen. Not becasue I fear saying no to him. But because I know how much pleasure he gets from seeing me surrender to something like this. I don't look at it as giving or receiving pleasure from another girl; I look at it as his pleasure in the act is what allows me to find pleasure in submitting to such a thing. From either side of the coin. Tikkiee said this in her post ... and my take on this issue centers around what she has said. If she gets so much pleasure out of pleasing her master ... even though she is intrinsically ambivialent or even slightly revolted at the thought of what she's being asked to do ... isn't that part of what pleasures her about submitting to him? Isn't this demonstration of her devotion fulfilling to both her and her Dominant? While I cannot simply wave away any selfish agendas on my part in a FFM encounter ... I really wouldn't get off on it unless she did also, in some way shape or form ... even if her pleasure is derived from something other than the actual physical nature of the encounter.

makwa -> RE: confused (10/17/2006 11:49:58 AM)
i would like to think he wouldn't have me act sexually with another woman or man But i trust him with every part of my body and mind. if he ever told me to i would obey him.. because in the end i gave myself to him .

PONYSEEKER -> RE: confused (10/17/2006 11:54:45 AM)
If I knew the girl was not Bi then the only way I would make her be with another woman would be as an unexpected form of punishment / humiliation and I would definatly have to be really angry at her or something in order to force the issue.

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