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herfacechair -> RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 (10/9/2006 11:58:24 AM)
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sissifytoserve: 10 key points of the Patriot Act every American concerned about their rights should know about.
Americans should be more concerned about the gloom and doom nay sayers misinterpreting the Patriot Act than they should be over the Patriot Act. A reading of the Patriot Act will show the reader that several laws that are already on the books are updated, and common sense is put into 21st century law enforcement.
Without these rules, our law enforcement would have its hands tied behind its back and be powerless in stopping a terror threat that they know about.
sissifytoserve: No. 1: The government can conduct "sneak and peek" searches in which agents enter your home or business and search your belongings without informing you until long after.
Complete myth. There is no mention of “home” in the Patriot Act with the exception of “Homeland Security”. Second, the closest item that comes to this…
http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.html
quote:
SEC. 213. AUTHORITY FOR DELAYING NOTICE OF THE EXECUTION OF A WARRANT.
Section 3103a of title 18, United States Code, is amended--
(1) by inserting `(a) IN GENERAL- ' before `In addition'; and
(2) by adding at the end the following:
`(b) DELAY- With respect to the issuance of any warrant or court order under this section, or any other rule of law, to search for and seize any property or material that constitutes evidence of a criminal offense in violation of the laws of the United States, any notice required, or that may be required, to be given may be delayed if--
`(1) the court finds reasonable cause to believe that providing immediate notification of the execution of the warrant may have an adverse result (as defined in section 2705);
`(2) the warrant prohibits the seizure of any tangible property, any wire or electronic communication (as defined in section 2510), or, except as expressly provided in chapter 121, any stored wire or electronic information, except where the court finds reasonable necessity for the seizure; and
`(3) the warrant provides for the giving of such notice within a reasonable period of its execution, which period may thereafter be extended by the court for good cause shown.'.
The court plays a large role here, and it is only applicable to situations where the culprits would be able to carry out their terrorist acts before a warrant can be issued and search can be conducted.
sissifytoserve: No. 2: Government agents can force libraries and bookstores to hand over the titles of books that you1ve purchased or borrowed and can demand the identity of anyone who has purchased or borrowed certain books. The government can also prosecute libraries and bookstores for informing you that the search occurred or even for informing you that an inquiry was made.
A search for the word “search” in the Patriot Act shows it being used in relation to terrorism. “No. 2” is applicable when it comes to the government’s search for terrorists. For example, if someone is reading books on how to build bombs, chemistry books, surveillance books, that someone should be checked to see if he is a terrorist - or someone involved in a legitimate activity like striving to become a cop. We would not know that for sure unless we double check on who is doing all of this reading. If the person reading all of these books is NOT a terrorist, then that person is safe from further examination. If that person IS a terrorist, then that person should be monitored continuously.
When it comes to these kinds of investigation, the government SHOULD have the right to prosecute anybody that violates its operations security - such as their operations to track down and apprehend terrorists. For example, if a librarian informs a book borrower that the government was asking about him, and he happens to be a terrorist with bad designs for us, that person would have an opportunity to go into hiding - or take another route to his plan. Either way, the progress that government gained on him would be lost.
sissifytoserve: According to ACLU staff attorney Jameel Jaffer, such "searches could extend to doctors offices, banks and other institutions which, like libraries, were previously off-limits under the law."
Again, we have one man’s OPINION of what this could do. The text of the Patriot Act does not support this clown’s opinion. Mention of search in the Patriot Act apply to terrorist activities, or activities related to terrorism. If you are a doctor and have absolutely nothing to do with terrorist activities, you have nothing to worry about.
sissifytoserve: Chris Finan, President of the American Booksellers group adds: "The refusal of the Justice Department to tell Congress how many times it has used its powers is even more unsettling because it naturally leads to the suspicion that it is using them a lot."
Again, we have another man’s OPINION and SPECULATION of what the Patriot Act could do. Unfortunately, I doubt that either Jaffer or Finan have read the Patriot Act itself.
The refusal of the Justice Department to tell Congress how many times it has used its powers could mean MANY things. In Finan’s opinion, it would lead to suspicion that it is using them a lot. Possible.
It also leads to MY suspicions that they don’t want to compromise any of their ongoing sensitive investigations of terrorist activity here in the United States.
sissifytoserve: No. 3: Federal agents are authorized to use hidden devices to trace the telephone calls or emails of people who are not even suspected of a crime. The FBI is also permitted to use its Magic Lantern technology to monitor everything you do on your computer--recording not just the websites you visit but EVERY SINGLE KEYSTROKE as well.
Again, this is a myth. The Patriot Act does not give the government cart blanche to search every single thing that we do. From reading the Patriot Act, especially on sections dealing with electronic surveillance, this is intended to track terrorist activities.
For example, if someone is calling other cell members, participating on Jihadist websites, making death to America letters on his computer, I sure as hell would want this clown monitored. Many of these guys were involved with money laundering, and running fake businesses as cover for their terrorist activities. I don’t know about you, but if a clown is doing these things, I would want them checked to make sure they are not involved with terrorist activities. If they are, they should be monitored and stopped before they decide to go ahead and light things up.
sissifytoserve: No. 4: Government agents are permitted to arrest and detain individuals "suspected" of terrorist activities and to hold them INDEFINITELY, WITHOUTCHARGE, and WITHOUT an ATTORNEY. (That could be you or me for sending or receiving this Email, by the way)
http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.html
quote:
SEC. 236A. (a) DETENTION OF TERRORIST ALIENS-
`(1) CUSTODY- The Attorney General shall take into custody any alien who is certified under paragraph (3).
`(2) RELEASE- Except as provided in paragraphs (5) and (6), the Attorney General shall maintain custody of such an alien until the alien is removed from the United States. Except as provided in paragraph (6), such custody shall be maintained irrespective of any relief from removal for which the alien may be eligible, or any relief from removal granted the alien, until the Attorney General determines that the alien is no longer an alien who may be certified under paragraph (3). If the alien is finally determined not to be removable, detention pursuant to this subsection shall terminate.
`(3) CERTIFICATION- The Attorney General may certify an alien under this paragraph if the Attorney General has reasonable grounds to believe that the alien--
`(A) is described in section 212(a)(3)(A)(i), 212(a)(3)(A)(iii), 212(a)(3)(B), 237(a)(4)(A)(i), 237(a)(4)(A)(iii), or 237(a)(4)(B); or
`(B) is engaged in any other activity that endangers the national security of the United States.
`(4) NONDELEGATION- The Attorney General may delegate the authority provided under paragraph (3) only to the Deputy Attorney General. The Deputy Attorney General may not delegate such authority.
`(5) COMMENCEMENT OF PROCEEDINGS- The Attorney General shall place an alien detained under paragraph (1) in removal proceedings, or shall charge the alien with a criminal offense, not later than 7 days after the commencement of such detention. If the requirement of the preceding sentence is not satisfied, the Attorney General shall release the alien.
`(6) LIMITATION ON INDEFINITE DETENTION- An alien detained solely under paragraph (1) who has not been removed under section 241(a)(1)(A), and whose removal is unlikely in the reasonably foreseeable future, may be detained for additional periods of up to six months only if the release of the alien will threaten the national security of the United States or the safety of the community or any person.
`(7) REVIEW OF CERTIFICATION- The Attorney General shall review the certification made under paragraph (3) every 6 months. If the Attorney General determines, in the Attorney General's discretion, that the certification should be revoked, the alien may be released on such conditions as the Attorney General deems appropriate, unless such release is otherwise prohibited by law. The alien may request each 6 months in writing that the Attorney General reconsider the certification and may submit documents or other evidence in support of that request.
As you can see, the Patriot Act does not reflect “No 4”.
sissifytoserve: No. 5: Federal agents are permitted to conduct full investigations of American citizens and permanent legal residents simply because they have participated in activities protected by the First Amendment, such as writing a letter to the editor or attending a peaceful rally.
ROTFLMFAO! Here, I will let the reader decide that one:
http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.html
quote:
SEC. 214. PEN REGISTER AND TRAP AND TRACE AUTHORITY UNDER FISA.
(a) APPLICATIONS AND ORDERS- Section 402 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1842) is amended--
(1) in subsection (a)(1), by striking `for any investigation to gather foreign intelligence information or information concerning international terrorism' and inserting `for any investigation to obtain foreign intelligence information not concerning a United States person or to protect against international terrorism or clandestine intelligence activities, provided that such investigation of a United States person is not conducted solely upon the basis of activities protected by the first amendment to the Constitution';
In other words, if you spend allot of time writing letters to the editor and attending peaceful rallies in support of our enemies, you CAN’T be the subject of an investigation. People doing what you imply here would be in VIOLATION of the Patriot Act.
Now, if you are carrying out those activities in conjunction with actual terrorist related activities, then you would be monitored. You just might bring their sights on other members of your cell at the peace rally.
But doing those first amendment rights activities alone will NOT get you monitored or investigated.
sissifytoserve: No. 6: Law enforcement agents are permitted to listen in on discussions between prisoners and their attorneys, thus denying them their Constitutional right to confidential legal counsel.
A search of the Patriot Act does not support this point. It does mention people detained. But not their talking to their lawyers while being monitored. There are multiple reference of “attorneys for the government” and “attorney general”. But no mention of attorneys listening to their clients under law enforcement ears.
Mentions of monitoring don’t talk about law enforcement listening in on client attorney discussions either.
sissifytoserve: No. 7: Terrorism suspects may be tried in secret military tribunals where defendants have no right to a public trial, no right to trial by jury, no right to confront the evidence, and no right to appeal to an independent court. In short, the Constitution does not apply.
The Patriot Act does not mention Military Tribunals. It does cover civilian and law enforcement in terms of defending military installations. And it limits military support to certain emergencies.
Second, military tribunals have been used to try the enemy during wartime. The terrorists that are subject to military tribunals were captured in the battle field. We’ve utilized military tribunals during the Revolutionary War, Civil War, and World War II. General George Washington himself utilized military tribunals.
sissifytoserve: No. 8: The CIA is granted authority to spy on American citizens, a power that has previously been denied to this international espionage organization.
This is not supported by the Patriot Act. If the CIA does any monitoring, it is with foreign related threats.
sissifytoserve: No. 9: In addition to the Patriot Act, the Bush administration has given us Operations TIPS, a government program that encourages citizens to spy on each other and to report their neighbors activities to the authorities. It's EXACLTY the kind of thing for which we used to fault East Germany and the Soviet Union, and for which we currently fault Red China and North Korea. Fortunately, Operation TIPS (or AmeriSnitch, as it's known to its many detractors) seems to have been recalled to the factory--at least for now. (Incidentally, in a clever variation of "two-can-play-at-that-game”, Brad Templeton has set up a website at http://www.all-the-other-names-were-taken.com/tipstips.html where you can report people you suspect of being informants for Operation TIPS. It's an interesting and amusing site, well worth a look.)
He had good intentions with that program. The idea was that more terrorist activities could be unmasked if people reported suspicious terror related activities. Take the example of the Kurdistan region of Iraq. People over there are walking around freely without worry of terrorist violence. Why don’t terrorists thrive over there? One reason - citizens on the street and in their neighborhoods reported any terrorist and terrorist related activities to their police.
It was defeated by both Republicans and Democrats. This does not make George Bush a rising Hitler.
sissifytoserve: No. 10: In the wake of Operation TIPS came something even worse: Total Information Awareness. TIA is a program of the Defense Department that when fully operational will link commercial and government databases so that the DOD can immediately put its finger on any piece of information about you that it wants.
For the corporate types, Operation TIPS is our country’s ‘enemy surveillance’ equivalent of supply chain integration. Operation TIPS takes many of its different surveillance programs, and combines them into one operating system and infrastructure.
Search parameters would be entered and queries would be conducted based on these search parameters. If you are not involved with terrorist or other criminal activity, you have nothing to worry about.
sissifytoserve: New York Times columnist William Safire writes: "Every purchase you make with a credit card, every magazine subscription you buy and medical prescription you fill, every Web site you visit and e-mail you send or receive, every academic grade you receive, every bank deposit you make, every trip you book and every event you attend all these transactions and communications will go into what the Defense Department describes as a virtual, centralized grand database."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_Awareness_Office
quote:
IAO changed the name of the program to the Terrorism Information Awareness Program and emphasized that the program was not designed to compile dossiers on US citizens, but rather to research and develop the tools that would allow authorized agencies to gather information on terrorist networks.
sissifytoserve: And that's not all. Who did our president appoint to head the TIA? Who gets to be Big Brother himself? Why it's none other than John Poindexter, a man convicted in 1990 on five counts of lying to Congress, destroying official documents, and obstructing congressional inquiries into the Iran-contra affair. Another Hermann Goering, if there ever was one.
This is an one example - of the many in your and Dorsai’s posts - of inductive fallacy. It also shows a lack of understanding of WHY he was picked for the position. His past experience had him in charge of programs dealing with information systems.
Take a look at his resume:
http://www.computerbytesman.com/tia/poindexterbio.htm
So he screwed up in the past. He apparently learned from those mistakes and moved on. Now that we have a big project on our country’s hands that requires information system integration, this man’s experience comes in handy.
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