RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 (Full Version)

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herfacechair -> RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 (10/8/2006 8:25:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve



American citizens HAVE already been charged under the Patriot act remember or put on NO-FLY lists if they are considered "subversives".




You approve of this?


Yes, see red section of the comment.

quote:

quote:

herfacechair: Thank god that they are keeping tabs on home grown or home based terrorists.


Depends on who defines what a "terrorist" is.

According to the Patriot act...just about any American citizen can be singled out if you meet the governmeents VAGUE description of a "terrorist".

Secretly arrested

Secretly detained

Secretly executed.

Thats right

Probably over in Bushs Overseas CIA torture facilities.


The actual definition of an unlawful enemy combatant. 

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2006/10/01/18317060.php

`(1) UNLAWFUL ENEMY COMBATANT- (A) The term `unlawful enemy combatant' means--

`(i) a person who has engaged in hostilities or who has purposefully and materially supported hostilities against the United States or its co-belligerents who is not a lawful enemy combatant (including a person who is part of the Taliban, al Qaeda, or associated forces); or

`(ii) a person who, before, on, or after the date of the enactment of the Military Commissions Act of 2006, has been determined to be an unlawful enemy combatant by a Combatant Status Review Tribunal or another competent tribunal established under the authority of the President or the Secretary of Defense.


Nope, not vague at all.  Also, according to the Patriot Act, these guys would not be "secretly arrested".  Even if a warrant will come after the fact, other people are being notified of the process. 




sissifytoserve -> RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 (10/8/2006 8:29:09 PM)

CIA 'used German base' to hold 9-11 suspect

London Telegraph / Philip Sherwell | October 8 2006

The CIA used a military base in Germany to interrogate the man accused of masterminding the September 11 terrorist attacks and a fellow al-Qaeda leader, according to testimony from terrorism suspects.

The claims, reported by British lawyers of two detainees at Guantanamo Bay, are the latest twist in the controversy over allegations that the CIA held alleged terrorist operatives in clandestine jails on European soil as part of its so-called "extraordinary renditions" programme.

The two men each said independently that they were told during their own interrogations that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Tawfiq bin Attash had been held and questioned on military bases in Germany.

The European parliament, and several governments, have investigated reports, which first emerged last year, that the CIA had held suspects at secret prisons in eastern Europe and used other European countries to transfer prisoners. But there has been no confirmation of the claims.


"The CIA used a military base in Germany to interrogate" AKA TORTURE

Nah...but secret CIA torture facilities don't exist according to FOX.




sissifytoserve -> RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 (10/8/2006 8:33:25 PM)

Bush, once again, claims to be above the law
October 8, 2006 5:37 AM | Bush Leagues | 4 Comments

By LESLIE MILLER

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/content/2006/10/bush_once_again.html


President Bush, again defying Congress, says he has the power to edit the Homeland Security Department's reports about whether it obeys privacy rules while handling background checks, ID cards and watchlists.

In the law Bush signed Wednesday, Congress stated no one but the privacy officer could alter, delay or prohibit the mandatory annual report on Homeland Security department activities that affect privacy, including complaints.

**

AH yes...altering and forging legal documents are now OK!!!




herfacechair -> RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 (10/8/2006 8:34:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

CIA 'used German base' to hold 9-11 suspect

London Telegraph / Philip Sherwell | October 8 2006

The CIA used a military base in Germany to interrogate the man accused of masterminding the September 11 terrorist attacks and a fellow al-Qaeda leader, according to testimony from terrorism suspects.

The claims, reported by British lawyers of two detainees at Guantanamo Bay, are the latest twist in the controversy over allegations that the CIA held alleged terrorist operatives in clandestine jails on European soil as part of its so-called "extraordinary renditions" programme.

The two men each said independently that they were told during their own interrogations that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Tawfiq bin Attash had been held and questioned on military bases in Germany.


"The CIA used a military base in Germany to interrogate" AKA TORTURE

Nah...but secret CIA torture facilities don't exist according to FOX.


Interrogate does not mean torture.  Interrogate is asking questions.  Torture is inflicting pain.  The article did not say, "torture and interrogate".  It just said, "interrogate. 

Again, you are pulling things out of thin air. 

Also, FOX reported that we were bringing terrorists to bases in Europe.  If that helps get more information that could help us in the war on terrorism, I have no problem with that.




Dorsai -> RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 (10/8/2006 8:36:30 PM)

sorry, haven't been following this whole thread yet, but people . . .be very aware,  for the first time in american hisotry, we have a dictator,  one who goes to war where ever he pleases, under what ever pretext (see hitler in poland, france, chezchoslavakia, hunry, etc) and answers to no one.   if your a born again christian, as is george, and god tells you what to do, as he does george, then I'm sure you have no problem with any of this.  bill clinton did what any human would do, had sex,   george,  well, he has nearly negated all our forefothers fought for.   body count: george has doubled the american body count as compared to those killed in the WTC (most of whom were not american citizens).  and in a country that had nothing to do with terrorists.  check your facts on this.
   anyone here know of the chrystal night?  or brown shirts?




herfacechair -> RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 (10/8/2006 8:38:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

Bush, once again, claims to be above the law
October 8, 2006 5:37 AM | Bush Leagues | 4 Comments

By LESLIE MILLER

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/content/2006/10/bush_once_again.html


President Bush, again defying Congress, says he has the power to edit the Homeland Security Department's reports about whether it obeys privacy rules while handling background checks, ID cards and watchlists.

In the law Bush signed Wednesday, Congress stated no one but the privacy officer could alter, delay or prohibit the mandatory annual report on Homeland Security department activities that affect privacy, including complaints.

**

AH yes...altering and forging legal documents are now OK!!!


Did you bother reading the article?

"But Bush, in a signing statement attached to the agency's 2007 spending bill, said he will interpret that section 'in a manner consistent with the President's constitutional authority to supervise the unitary executive branch."

That is telling me that what he signed was open to interpretation.




sissifytoserve -> RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 (10/8/2006 8:38:57 PM)

Ive got two words for you when it comes to TORTURE.

GITMO

ABU Graib

You mean to tell me you ACTUALLY belive that this ISN'T GOING ON at SECRET CIA prisons too?

Man are you deluded and brainwashed.




Dorsai -> RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 (10/8/2006 8:39:22 PM)

p.s.  if you haven't really studied the patriot act,  then check history unter hitler in 1936 . . .he passed essentially the same law in germany then.   you can bet donald and dick learned from adolph,  they sure as hell aren't capable of formulating such original thinging on their own.




Dorsai -> RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 (10/8/2006 8:42:24 PM)

your definition of "interogate" and torture are apparently the same as george's,   of course the rest of the civilized world (all signortories of the geneva convention) have another interpretation




herfacechair -> RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 (10/8/2006 8:44:51 PM)

sissifytoserve: Ive got two words for you when it comes to TORTURE.  GITMO  ABU Graib

The torture that did take place was not sanctioned by the chain of command.  Those people were held accountable.  Applying the actions of a few malcontents to the entire military staff at those two locations is irresponsible at best, idiotic at worst.

sissifytoserve: You mean to tell me you ACTUALLY belive that this ISN'T GOING ON at SECRET CIA prisons too?

WHERE, in my posts, do I SPECIFICALLY state that torture is not going on?

You presented an article that talked about interrogation.  Interrogation deals with asking questions.  Torture deals with inflicting pain.  You are confusing the two.  Your report did not say "torture".

sissifytoserve: Man are you deluded and brainwashed.

Actually, if you pull your head out of your ass and remove your horse blinders, you will see that I am not the one that is deluded.  Or brainwashed. 

In fact, why don't you put that koolaid down while you are at it. [8|]






Dorsai -> RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 (10/8/2006 8:47:05 PM)

not sanctioned by the chain in command, you say?  LOL   and george isn't in the chain of comman,  or dick,  or donald?     and btw,  fox network is owned by the right wing churches,  who support the brownshits in control.  wake up!!  study your history.




herfacechair -> RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 (10/8/2006 8:47:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dorsai

p.s.  if you haven't really studied the patriot act,  then check history unter hitler in 1936 . . .he passed essentially the same law in germany then.   you can bet donald and dick learned from adolph,  they sure as hell aren't capable of formulating such original thinging on their own.


I've studied both.  No comparison at all.




herfacechair -> RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 (10/8/2006 8:48:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dorsai

your definition of "interogate" and torture are apparently the same as george's,   of course the rest of the civilized world (all signortories of the geneva convention) have another interpretation



Look it up.  Interrogate does not mean torture.  Interrogate simply means asking questions.  Torture is inflicting pain. 




Dorsai -> RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 (10/8/2006 8:52:33 PM)

so, let me check this out here?  we haven't violated the geneva convention . . .hasn't been stated that george wants to withdrawn from it,  no see no comparison with 1936 germany than now (well, it was safer there than it is now for americans)?    the fact we've held thousands of forgeigners on "suspecion" of vague acts, people who have never been in the U.S. much less comitted crimes here?   I have that all correct?




Dorsai -> RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 (10/8/2006 8:54:12 PM)

 . . . and let me see if I have this correct,  congress wanted to impeach clinton for a blow job,  while george has so far killed over 2000 americans in a war based on lies,  not to make another comparison to all of hitlers wars. . . .LOL




herfacechair -> RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 (10/8/2006 8:54:19 PM)

Dorsai: not sanctioned by the chain in command, you say?  LOL  

Laugh all you want.  What I say about my fellow service members is factual.

Dorsai: and george isn't in the chain of comman,  or dick,  or donald?    

They are not in the military.  Read the statement that I was rebutting.  GITMO, and ABU GHRAB (sp).  Both ran by a military staff.  It is fact that members of the military staff that engaged in either psychological or physical torture were held accountable.

Dorsai:   and btw,  fox network is owned by the right wing churches,  who support the brownshits in control.  wake up!!  study your history.

(1) I am a history buff.  I know my history.  (2) I've read the patriot act.  Comparing the NAZI's to the current admin in relation with the Patriot Act is comparing apples and oranges. 

Oh, judging by what I have highlighted in red, I am not the one that needs to "wake up" or "study my history".




sissifytoserve -> RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 (10/8/2006 8:55:51 PM)

Dorsai...great points.

Bush's legislation is almost an exact replica of Hitlers ENABLING ACT of 1933

http://www.furnitureforthepeople.com/actpat.htm




Dorsai -> RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 (10/8/2006 8:58:11 PM)

well, beg to pardon, but yes, despite not being military (contrary to georg's porported bio) they are in the chain of command,  notice you didn't mention the fact that george wants to withdraw from the geneva conventions.   hmmmmm    . .. .. . . .




sissifytoserve -> RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 (10/8/2006 8:58:48 PM)

10 key points of the Patriot Act every American concerned about their rights should know about.


No. 1: The government can conduct "sneak and peek" searches in which agents enter your home or business and search your belongings without informing you until long after.

No. 2: Government agents can force libraries and bookstores to hand over the titles of books that you1ve purchased or borrowed and can demand the identity of anyone who has purchased or borrowed certain books. The government can also prosecute libraries and bookstores for informing you that the search occurred or even for informing you that an inquiry was made. According to ACLU staff attorney Jameel Jaffer, such "searches could extend to doctors offices, banks and other institutions which, like libraries, were previously off-limits under the law." Chris Finan, President of the American Booksellers group adds: "The refusal of the Justice Department to tell Congress how many times it has used its powers is even more unsettling because it naturally leads to the suspicion that it is using them a lot."

No. 3: Federal agents are authorized to use hidden devices to trace the telephone calls or emails of people who are not even suspected of a crime. The FBI is also permitted to use its Magic Lantern technology to monitor everything you do on your computer--recording not just the websites you visit but EVERY SINGLE KEYSTROKE as well.

No. 4: Government agents are permitted to arrest and detain individuals "suspected" of terrorist activities and to hold them INDEFINITELY, WITHOUTCHARGE, and WITHOUT an ATTORNEY. (That could be you or me for sending or receiving this Email, by the way)

No. 5: Federal agents are permitted to conduct full investigations of American citizens and permanent legal residents simply because they have participated in activities protected by the First Amendment, such as writing a letter to the editor or attending a peaceful rally.

No. 6: Law enforcement agents are permitted to listen in on discussions between prisoners and their attorneys, thus denying them their Constitutional right to confidential legal counsel.

No. 7: Terrorism suspects may be tried in secret military tribunals where defendants have no right to a public trial, no right to trial by jury, no right to confront the evidence, and no right to appeal to an independent court. In short, the Constitution does not apply.

No. 8: The CIA is granted authority to spy on American citizens, a power that has previously been denied to this international espionage organization.

No. 9: In addition to the Patriot Act, the Bush administration has given us Operations TIPS, a government program that encourages citizens to spy on each other and to report their neighbors activities to the authorities. It's EXACLTY the kind of thing for which we used to fault East Germany and the Soviet Union, and for which we currently fault Red China and North Korea. Fortunately, Operation TIPS (or AmeriSnitch, as it's known to its many detractors) seems to have been recalled to the factory--at least for now. (Incidentally, in a clever variation of "two-can-play-at-that-game”, Brad Templeton has set up a website at http://www.all-the-other-names-were-taken.com/tipstips.html where you can report people you suspect of being informants for Operation TIPS. It's an interesting and amusing site, well worth a look.)

No. 10: In the wake of Operation TIPS came something even worse: Total Information Awareness. TIA is a program of the Defense Department that when fully operational will link commercial and government databases so that the DOD can immediately put its finger on any piece of information about you that it wants. New York Times columnist William Safire writes: "Every purchase you make with a credit card, every magazine subscription you buy and medical prescription you fill, every Web site you visit and e-mail you send or receive, every academic grade you receive, every bank deposit you make, every trip you book and every event you attend all these transactions and communications will go into what the Defense Department describes as a virtual, centralized grand database." And that's not all. Who did our president appoint to head the TIA? Who gets to be Big Brother himself? Why it's none other than John Poindexter, a man convicted in 1990 on five counts of lying to Congress, destroying official documents, and obstructing congressional inquiries into the Iran-contra affair. Another Hermann Goering, if there ever was one.




Dorsai -> RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 (10/8/2006 9:01:54 PM)

as per being in the military,  I didn't say they were, I said they were in the chain of comman,  which anyone knowledgable would know that the top three dogs there are the president, vice president and the secretary of defense, who are traditionally not military,  dumb ass




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