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RE: Sick of PC - 10/7/2006 1:11:41 AM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		I dont know.  Unless the comment is pointed at you, I tend to go by what my mom taught me years ago.  "If you have nothing nice to say, dont say anything at all."

The ridiculous PC notions are making sure that every statement that comes out of your mouth doesnt offend SOMEONE.  Make sure you use the proper terms every diffrent group of people have adotpted for themselves and make sure you dont imply any sort of prejudice or preference for aything bcasue someone might not like it.

If I think someone will be majorly affronted, wierded out or grossed out by what I like, I keep it to myself.  Easier that way.  But maybe thats just me.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Sick of PC - 10/7/2006 1:12:17 AM   
Iskander


Posts: 264
Joined: 9/26/2006
Status: offline 		I actually agree with you becca, PC can kill the art of conversation...
Heck I've seen it kill many a good thread when the topic was put aside to discuss how the topic should be discussed...

Too many people think that 'the shoe' fits thus feel thay have to defend their right to wear it...
I don't care what shoes people wear, I don't care if people think I'm an idiot for wearing no shoes coz I could step in glass or wotnot... But guess what, they are my feet..

Anyway, in RL when someone aproaches me with "I totally respect your right to do this but....", I think 'oh no, here we go..' and tune out... Too often it's used as an excuse to enforce some narrowminded view point... If you totally respect someones opinion then there is NO but!!

Iskander...


(in reply to becca333)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Sick of PC - 10/7/2006 1:22:47 AM   
becca333


Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline 		Iskander, you are wise and knowledgeable, and I totally respect your right to express your views - no buts!

(in reply to Iskander)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Sick of PC - 10/7/2006 2:10:50 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		You can be polite to people without being "Politically Correct" about it.
Besides the last time I checked it's not a crime to "offend" people.

(in reply to becca333)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Sick of PC - 10/7/2006 3:12:49 AM   
Phoenixandnika


Posts: 748
Joined: 4/22/2005
From: Aberdeen Maryland
Status: offline 		Assertiveness is being able to stand up for YOURSELF, voicing YOUR opinions and feelings and making sure your peers consider them.

It is not the same as aggressiveness. You can be assertive and vocal without being forceful or rude. Instead, it is stating your opinion and or feelings.
 
Assertion is a skill that is learned it is not naturally ingrained. It is a way of communicating and behaving with others. Being assertive makes ME feel confident and aware of MY feelings, MY views, and MYSELF.
 
I also believe that being assertive allows others within a forum such as this the opportunity to read MY views, opinions, and feelings on various topics.
 
I learned that often times in being assertive it is not what you say but how you say it that often makes people take offense.
 
Examples:
 
Scat play is sick.
I think scat play is sick.
 
Knife play is extremely erotic.
I think knife play is extremely erotic.
 
In the first example of both, the statements are general. While in the second statements I own my feelings and opinions.
 
I do not believe that simply because I am assertive and make MY opinions and feelings known that I am obligated to justify them ANYONE.
 
Aggression is expressing your feelings, needs, rights, and opinions without respect for other's feelings, needs, rights, and opinions.
 
I don't mind being "PC" however I do mind when people expect me to be passive. I do take offense to the thought that if my opinions and feelings are not the same as the masses or YOURS that I should keep them to myself. In my opinion the point of these forums is to allow EVERYONE to be assertive in expressing themselves, their views, their opinions, their feelings on various issues or aspects of the alternative lifestyle(s) we are part of.
 
So ask yourself this, when posting. Do I own my feelings and opinions in an assertive manner? Or am I expressing my opinions and feelings in an aggressive manner? Is my aim to win or try to force others to accept and perhaps even change their opinions and feelings to match mine or am I simply expressing and owning MY feelings and opinions?
 
If you were simply expressing your feelings and opinions in an assertive manner, I would welcome a debate with you any day. If you’re being aggressive or simply not owning YOUR feelings and opinions I will probably simply not reply to you. Life is far to short and I refuse to get into a pissing contest in this virtual world or any world over MY right to MY feelings and opinions. After all they are just that MINE.


< Message edited by Phoenixandnika -- 10/7/2006 3:15:04 AM >

_____________________________

"Life is neither a bed of roses nor a carpet of thorns, it's just what you make of it."



(in reply to becca333)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Sick of PC - 10/7/2006 3:15:24 AM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		It can be tricky to not impose our own values on our friends too.
One lovely woman I know told me that her breasts were implants.
I could not tell and had no idea.  I don't like the idea of plastic
surgery unless there is some sort of compelling reason; birth
defect, scar or injury, etc.  And I don't like the social pressure
for all women to comform to certain standards of beauty.
 
But hey, they are HER BREASTS, not mine.  She is happy
and healthy without any side effects.  So I refrained from
stating my own point of view and simply told her that
she looked wonderful.  


 

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to becca333)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Sick of PC - 10/7/2006 5:06:16 AM   
pinkee


Posts: 487
Status: offline 		<am confused>.  Isn't "PC" the acronymn for "politcal correctness"?  i don't see the connection between that vague-as-hell term and what's been posted thus far.  It seems to me, the OP is basically saying W/we are negligent in beginning O/our posts with the acronym "IMHO".  Crickey; isn't it obvious to A/all that a post contains a certain member's personal opinion?
 
Now a word on political correctness.  i am on record here and throughout my life as becoming beligerent over speech which is hateful, discriminatory, bigoted, etc., etc. etc.  However, in this country, W/we have passed a lot of silly laws that turn every workplace into a verbal/activity minefield, and give every disgruntled employee a claim of some sort against the employer. 
 
One example is the "hostile workplace" branch of the sexual harrassment laws and cases.  Crickey, when i was a young woman, i believed that no job should be foreclosed to A/anyone capable of performing it.  i myself became an attorney in the 80's, as the "only men should be lawyers" school of thought was flickering out.  However, i also believed, as a young woman and now, that the entire worplace/workforce does not have to march to the drum beat of the most sensitive soul employed.  If Y/you decide to take up being an electrician -- more power to Y/you -- but to then turn around and whine that some construction workers have rough edges seems ridiculous to me.
 
pinkee

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Sick of PC - 10/7/2006 5:12:17 AM   
ShiftedJewel


Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: becca333

Me?  I'm not bent out of shape.  I'm the one over here banging my head against a brick wall.

*sigh*

Oh, and I totally respect your right to say that.  But.


~~walks in quietly and places a pillow between her and the brick wall, pats her on the shoulder and whispers... I understand.

Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to becca333)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Sick of PC - 10/7/2006 5:35:23 AM   
twicehappy


Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		Here is a link to pages of debate on PC and how it affects our ability to communicate effectly.
 
 
http://www.collarchat.com/m_418190/mpage_1/key_political%2Ccorrectness/tm.htm

 
I agree, it does tie ones hands and more and more you notice posters making sure to write "in my opinion" or"i apologize if you are offended " etc in their posts hoping to avoid being flamed for being brash enough to have an opinion or being labled a "one true wayer". 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

"Except for a few of the totally weird ones"?  Either you respect everyone or you don't.  You can't have it both ways.


Point made LAM, tolerance should include all no matter the kink unless it involves non consensual partners. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

You can be polite to people without being "Politically Correct" about it.
Besides the last time I checked it's not a crime to "offend" people.


Popeye, i did not think it used to be either but after living in a flame proof suit behind a firewall with the local fire department at hand every time i post i believe someone passed a law otherwise, at least here on collarme at any rate.

< Message edited by twicehappy -- 10/7/2006 5:44:06 AM >

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to becca333)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Sick of PC - 10/7/2006 5:52:51 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		*laughs* i've thought about doing a cut n paste disclaimer on my posts... "opinions expressed are not those of this station, it's owners or manangement, void where prohibited, no one under 18, check the laws in your state, all parties agree that disputes will be settled by arbitration, not responsible for errors in typography, typesetting or spelling" 

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to twicehappy)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Sick of PC - 10/7/2006 5:57:59 AM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		Mostly, the regular readers here know W/we can assume gender and roles used in examples are (insert Y/yours here___  )

i think the main reason W/we clarify isn't for those who really know this already, it's for the new folks who aren't really sure.   Witness the umpteen posts asking the definitions of sub vs slave..  partly that's because of the times people see posts that say "a sub might wear a pink bra"  and they wonder, does that mean a slave does too?  or  what if the sub is a male?  or does sub MEAN female? 

W/we know a sub is a sammich, and even if that sammich is a male, yeah, he might wear a pink bra...  but that's a time in grade issue, W/we've learned that because at some point, we asked "So what exactly is the diff tween a sub and a slave?"

So while it's not needed every single post, it's nice to see the diclaimers peppered throught the messages, that yes,  this same topic crosses roles and genders, and flavors of kinks, and definitions aren't set in stone, etc.    Sure it gets tedious to keep having the re-state the obvious, but remember, it's not all that obvious to newer readers. 

i'd say that disclaimer service is posted enough by the majority, that it needen't be carried by all posters at all times.  If you're not in the "educate the masses" mood when you post, don't bother with the disclamers, sooner or later the reader will figure out where you're coming from.

(in reply to twicehappy)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Sick of PC - 10/7/2006 6:23:24 AM   
twicehappy


Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis

If you're not in the "educate the masses" mood when you post, don't bother with the disclamers, sooner or later the reader will figure out where you're coming from.


For some that may be true yet for the most part i find it is a select few of the regular posters who tend to fire up the torches when these disclaimers are neglected.

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to Mavis)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Sick of PC - 10/7/2006 6:33:06 AM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis

If you're not in the "educate the masses" mood when you post, don't bother with the disclamers, sooner or later the reader will figure out where you're coming from.


For some that may be true yet for the most part i find it is a select few of the regular posters who tend to fire up the torches when these disclaimers are neglected.


Oh, i've been lucky then.  i post almost exclusively from the male Top/ Dom/ Master   with a female bottom/sub/slave  perspective, and i haven't yet been called to the carpet for assuming the gender of the roles...  nor ever barked at for forgetting to mention that yes, the pair could also be gay, or straight same sex, or a lesbian with a gay male sub.   i occasionally note that i am posting from my perspective only, and gender-correct the examples as needed, but i don't qualify all my posts to include that.   P/people here have been very tolerant of it so far.   

(in reply to twicehappy)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Sick of PC - 10/7/2006 6:55:48 AM   
becca333


Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel

quote:

ORIGINAL: becca333

Me?  I'm not bent out of shape.  I'm the one over here banging my head against a brick wall.

*sigh*

Oh, and I totally respect your right to say that.  But.


~~walks in quietly and places a pillow between her and the brick wall, pats her on the shoulder and whispers... I understand.

Jewel


Thank you! 

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Sick of PC - 10/7/2006 7:05:32 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		becca....I understand too....I made this post awhile back:

http://www.collarchat.com/m_82721/mpage_1/key_disclaimers/tm.htm

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to becca333)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Sick of PC - 10/7/2006 7:11:13 AM   
becca333


Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline 		I'm glad I'm not alone!  I definitely respect your right to agree with me.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Sick of PC - 10/7/2006 7:52:55 AM   
Sab


Posts: 325
Joined: 5/2/2006
From: Canada
Status: offline 		But ------ wasn't PC escribed to just to be MORE inclusive of all and NOT to exclude anyone due to thier gender, religion, sexual preference ad infinitum?

OK - As communisum won't work in a practical sense, neither will PC yet you will always get those who pound that drum until no one actually listens any more. It was a good idea, the emphasis on was - now, as it has been hijacked by a few recycled idiots who insist that the whole English language be changed to thier way of thinking. And yes, I once did try to get into the head of a PC'er - believe me, they were totally f*cked when faced with real life problems and not their percived ideologically f*cked up ones. Really - chop off that chickens head and watch it run - then you have a PC'er in reality! :D FUN!

We are people and we have opinions, what makes those opinions ours is that we have dealt with many things that have brought us to the said opinion - all we have to do is really accept that our opinion is wrong everytime, because, in reality, it is! It is only correct to us because it is pertanent TO us! A personal opinion is a fluid thing - once set in stone you stop growing.

P.S. You are all f*cking wrong and I am correct! :D  <-------- J/k btw for the PC'ers :P


_____________________________

God blessed it and it brought me to her.

(in reply to becca333)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Sick of PC - 10/7/2006 8:14:00 AM   
Amaros


Posts: 1363
Joined: 7/25/2005
Status: offline 		I thought she was tired of working her Pubococcygenus muscles - squeeze this lemon bitch, I'm thirsty!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

PC is really just about not saying the N word, and very little else, hardly objectionable to any rational person with the slightest vestige of moral integrity, but it's come to identify a whole range of things people find offensive, from the reasonable to the ridiculous.

Personally, I promote e-prime, an NLP thing I think - it arose from linguistics anyway - that simply involves avoiding all forms of the verb "to be" when referring to somebody: i.e., "you are a pervert", vs., "you resemble a pervert at this moment".

A subtle distinction, perhaps but a profound one - an attack on identity is a personal attack, whereas an act is just an act, that need not become politicized in order to express one's personal feelings concerning it.

(in reply to Sab)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Sick of PC - 10/7/2006 8:22:01 AM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear becca333,
 
{{{HUGSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS}} If wanted/needed.
 
Warm hugs,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to becca333)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Sick of PC - 10/7/2006 8:25:25 AM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: becca333

Surely a statement like "XXXX squicks me out" is going to be interpreted as a personal comment?


No, but saying "XXXXX is gross" might.  The example you have used makes it about you. The example I used (and is often the way opinions are stated) makes it about anyone who does it.



I understand what you're saying here, I really do.  When we rephrase it as "In my opinion xxx is gross"  or "xxx grosses me out", instead of "xxx is gross", it does sound a little less caustic.  But for heaven's sake, when someone says "ewww liver and onions is gross"  dont we already know that its the opinion of the person making the statement?  Words like "gross" "fun" "cool" "disgusting" are all adjectives that we use to describe something the way it seems to us.  It is impossible for anyone to state as fact that "liver and onions is gross", because the taste of liver and onions is subjective.  So as reasonably intelligent people we automatically know that when someone says "liver and onions is gross", they arent labeling liver and onions, but describing it, as it tastes to them. And I think what Becca is saying is that among reasonably intelligent people there should be no need to say.  "I have no problem with other people who eat liver and onions but I think its gross".   This is not to say that certain things should be put more politely to spare a person's feelings.  Its just to say that when someone states their opinion on something like whether or not xxx is cool or gross, it goes without saying that its merely their opinion....well, in my opinion anyway. lol

_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 40
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