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Her favourite fetish, my limit? - 10/8/2006 12:19:35 PM   
underlimited


Posts: 34
Joined: 9/8/2006
Status: offline 		i actually have two questions... hopefully You'll find them somehow related.

i have an online Mistress. Even though i hate online, i agreed because it's the only local opporunity i got in past 2 years. i am not sure if we are going to move onto r/t, and She seems hesitant to adress that question (though Her profile states She is seeking 'online and more'. i feel that if She keeps it only online i will eventually look elsewhere. How can i approach a question She seems to avoid? Do You also think that online can replace a real-time lifestyle?

And second, it also seems that Her favourite fetish is forced bisexuality. Even though i stated it simply as a 'limit' at the beginning of the discussion, She seems to be pushing further and further into it. i feel more and more uncomfortable, yet i don't want to make Her unhappy, especially if that's Her favourite fetish. What should i do?

i really like alot of things about Her, especially Her sense of humor and sense of love as well as being demanding. if it only wasn't just ONLINE and if there was no forced bisexuality, i'd say i found a perfect Mistress. But these two issues seem to really make me uncomfortable.... especially since She wants me to get with another guy, while She will instruct us through ONLINE. Could She be fake? How can i know who i'm pleasing if it's always going to be online?

Anyhow....basically, do You think (if You were in my place) should i stick to it and see what happens, is it not worth it, or maybe You have any other ideas? So just write what You would do. :)
Thanks :)

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RE: Her favourite fetish, my limit? - 10/8/2006 12:23:54 PM   
Jasmyn


Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		To clarify ... online is online only or you've spoken to her on the phone as well?

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quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.


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RE: Her favourite fetish, my limit? - 10/8/2006 12:40:14 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline 		How exactly is she going to force you to suck another man's cock online? Computer going to send off rays to burn you if you don't pick up another man and bring him home to do on camera?

No online relationships aren't like real life relationships!   If you're happy playing online with whomever this is, that is all that matters.  If you are considering submitting to anything and everything your future domina wishes, that is for you to square away with your comfort and conscience.   I would never force a man who hates doing another man to do one.   Your limits should always be respected and adhered to until such time as you two have discossed disposing of any specific limit.

You will need to do the hard work of finding a woman who can respect you and with whom you have similar kinks...  Or you could stay online, and avoid real living all together as it is considerably less work and potentially less painful.  

Editted to add that I agree with the others who think it is most probably a man behind the computer dominating you online.   M

< Message edited by BlkTallFullfig -- 10/8/2006 1:31:52 PM >

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""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

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RE: Her favourite fetish, my limit? - 10/8/2006 12:40:36 PM   
maitreDuAcier


Posts: 5
Joined: 8/22/2006
Status: offline 		Limits should be sacrosanct.  Do limits change over time?  Yes, but during a scene, or even while in my presence I never let a submissive of mine remove a limit, nor would I indicate my wish for them to.  Can we discuss it outside the scene?  Yes, because these limits can give insights to the submissive.  Generally when I first become involved I tell my sub to go off, take a few days, think inward and draw up a list of limits.  Over time and with trust some may be removed, but others are "hard limits" and they exsist for good reason.  It is my job as a conscientious Dominate to keep those limits during our time together, as a sub can quite often wish to please and remove limits. I cannot allow that.
I'm sorry to say, it seems to me that you and your Mis may be incompatable.  If pain were a hard limit for a sub I couldn't really get involved with them.  I've been involved with subs who started out not realizing that they wanted or needed the pain, but they also didn''t have pain as a limit.
It all boils down to: can you each obtain the exchange you need from the relationship?

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RE: Her favourite fetish, my limit? - 10/8/2006 12:49:55 PM   
valeca


Posts: 403
Joined: 1/9/2006
Status: offline 		I'm not a Domme, but I hope you'll appreciate the input nonetheless.  The first question that came to mind was 'How long have y'all been together?'  Are we talking a matter of years, months, weeks, days?

quote:

ORIGINAL: underlimited
She seems hesitant to adress that question (though Her profile states She is seeking 'online and more'. i feel that if She keeps it only online i will eventually look elsewhere. How can i approach a question She seems to avoid?[


It would raise some concerns for me if a question I was asking was repeatedly going unanswered ...especially if I felt it was going unanswered due to avoidance.  There would be some serious thinking going on in my head about whether or not avoidance was a habit of her's, and if she really listened to what I said.

quote:

Do You also think that online can replace a real-time lifestyle?

No.  But it can fulfill a need.

quote:

And second, it also seems that Her favourite fetish is forced bisexuality. Even though i stated it simply as a 'limit' at the beginning of the discussion, She seems to be pushing further and further into it. i feel more and more uncomfortable, yet i don't want to make Her unhappy, especially if that's Her favourite fetish. What should i do?

This is what prompted the 'How long have you been together' question.  Explain to her that you're uncomfortable...and increasingly so.  If she backs offand opens (what you feel to be) a real dialogue about the subject, perhaps she viewed a simple 'limit' as a soft limit and was pushing you on it.  If she doesn't, well...I'd  be leary myself.  Discussion of the two-way variety is the key.

quote:

Could She be fake? How can i know who i'm pleasing if it's always going to be online?

She could be.
And you can't until you meet face to face and get to really know each other through discussion.

The idea of getting a partner, especially one of the male persuassion when you're having difficulty with just the concept...simply to please someone you've never even had a cup of coffee with is a bit unhealthy to my way of thinking.






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~valeca, Owned and Operated by Loraith.

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RE: Her favourite fetish, my limit? - 10/8/2006 1:05:31 PM   
underlimited


Posts: 34
Joined: 9/8/2006
Status: offline 		Hmm... thanks for the insights.
i guess then the rule should be "if something doesn't seem right, then it proboably isn't right". Such as Her not willing to discuss certain things. i have not spoken to Her on the phone, but i talk on my mic to Her while She types. i asked Her if She has a mic, first time She said "she's not at home", then "roomate is with Her", and then "She's visiting Her family". Again, something doesn't feel right, or maybe i'm just paranoid.

One of You mentioned how long we've been talking. About a month to be exact. This is why i asked, maybe i should wait another month before jumping to conlcusions?

As for online, i don't like it. Especially for the reasons all of You are mentioning. It leaves alot of gaps and questions unanswered, especially if it's relationship type. i'd rather meet up with Her for a cup of coffee first.


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RE: Her favourite fetish, my limit? - 10/8/2006 1:07:33 PM   
Samwhiplash


Posts: 191
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline 		I just think that when someone elses ultimate is something that you will never agree on, and since it is an online thing only -- it might be more realistic to realise that you are just not compatible in that way and to move on.

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RE: Her favourite fetish, my limit? - 10/8/2006 1:08:40 PM   
Samwhiplash


Posts: 191
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline 		Would also like to add...... maybe you could compromise by being on the receiving end of some male-male oral -- would that be something you would consider?

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RE: Her favourite fetish, my limit? - 10/8/2006 1:12:47 PM   
Jasmyn


Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		Hate to say it but it could be a guy posing as a fem dom

_____________________________

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.


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RE: Her favourite fetish, my limit? - 10/8/2006 1:23:28 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline 		I would be hesitant to engage in acts of submission given by an online person even if they fell in my comfort zones without having a good enough feel for the person.

The question about the forced bisexuality also raises concerns.

The first question that comes to mind is how she is proceeding about the forced bisexuality issue. It is one thing to encourage one to expand limits. It is another to disregard the limits or manipulate one to surrender limits. I consider the latter to be a red flag, and one to damage trust.

If her attempt to expand this limit has been done in an acceptable manner, you might introspect whether this limit is indeed a limit. If it is, I think it is fair for you to expect that limit to be observed. If it is a limit you are willing to explore for the sake of another, you might ask yourself if this occasion merits this gesture or whether you might save it for a more promising relationship and a better person.

I think the idea of asking you to go against what you have presented as a limit through online instruction is a red flag. There can be emotional consequences to going beyond a limit and it seems she is either uninterested or unaware of the same. I don't have a good feel for whether your welfare matters to her or not.

I think the signs are not good. That her favorite fetish is your limit suggests incompatibility. Even if there were some other common areas of interest to allow interaction outside of the forced bisexuality, the information in your post raises question about trust and character.

I did choose to walk away from opportunities that seemed not right. I am glad I made that choice. More, better opportunities arose. I think you will find that exercising your power to walk away will help you feel more confident in your role.

If you think there is basis to continue to explore that relationship, you could respectfully and through compassionate communication state that online interaction is not consistent with your relationship goals; you have gone against that policy to accommodate her but would like to check in to make sure you are not wasting her time since you cannot do online indefinitely. You could say that you are interested to know what her reason is for wishing online play only to see if there are other ways that work for both people. For sake of emphasis or focus, I would send an email with only this topic and nothing else.

My two cents.

Cheers,

Sea


< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 10/8/2006 1:26:06 PM >

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RE: Her favourite fetish, my limit? - 10/8/2006 1:26:18 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Jasmyn - you beat me to it. Guys posing as girls goes on a lot it seems - and it pisses me off well and truly as it gives people in my position a bad name.

underlimited - get yourself a pay as you go mobile, give her the number and ask her to call you, anytime. She can withhold her number and (if it works on mobile?) use reverse charge calling. Tell her the PC is in for repairs, so you got the mobile so you can continue like that for a while. Its been a month now, so why would she not call you, with all the security measures you put in place for her - like she can withhold her number etc?

Its not foolproof, as a little training can feminise a voice satisfactorarily enough for most of the time. But look for clues in her speech patterns as well as to the identity of this person. Especially look for the voice intonation to go down at the end of a sentence and for a monotonal intonation - these are tell tale signs (but not foolproof, sadly) of a male speaker, even if he has trained the voice a little with the obvious things.

I hope I'm wrong, but it just seems to fit a pattern, what with the things youre being asked to do, and the unwillingness to do more than text only, online.

In any case, if youre not comfortable with anything, then dont do it.

E

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RE: Her favourite fetish, my limit? - 10/8/2006 1:36:50 PM   
underlimited


Posts: 34
Joined: 9/8/2006
Status: offline 		To answer one question at the time. :)
Would i be willing to be on the receiving end? Yes, only in the heat of the moment. (if She teased me and demanded that i cum into another sub's mouth, yes that's possible). Anything further would make me feel disturbed.

As Jasmyn said, she could be a male FemDom. i also realize that, and i guess the only way will be to try to talk to Her on the phone or meet for a coffee sometime soon.

And undergroundsea, thanks for the big advice. i actually found Your post quite useful. You seem to know this stuff :) You gave me courage to email Her, stating clearily my limits and why they are limits. i'll consider that as a first step. Next email, i will make sure i communicate to Her clearily my intentions, and if we are still not compatible, i will walk away.
We'll see what happens...
Thanks all.



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RE: Her favourite fetish, my limit? - 10/8/2006 1:39:04 PM   
MsKatHouston


Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline 		It seems there are a few red flags here.  Everyone has made some excellent points.  If I continually get excuses as to why someone cannot talk to me in person, much less meet I don't waste much more time with them. 

Regarding limits, I agree that pushing them via the Internet is not a good idea.  It may be her favorite activity but if she has no regard for your limits, is that something you really want.  I have no problem pushing them if you are in a r/t relationship with open honest discussion and someone who will be there for you if it all goes south...but pushing limits is something that takes time and trust.  Do you have either?

I would tread carefully here.

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

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RE: Her favourite fetish, my limit? - 10/8/2006 1:39:46 PM   
underlimited


Posts: 34
Joined: 9/8/2006
Status: offline 		Hi Lady Ellen,

wow, another great reply.....
Hmmm..... undergroundsea solved my problem regarding clear communication, but i also think i'll take Your advice to truly see if She is real.
i guess that pretty much solves all my problems.... unless there are EVEN better ideas :)

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RE: Her favourite fetish, my limit? - 10/8/2006 1:42:47 PM   
MsKatHouston


Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline 		another point...your potential incompatibilities does not seem to me to be the biggest issue here.  One thing at a time.  Is she real?  Is she going to be able to provide the type of relationship you need?  (r/t?)  If not, the other things are ssecondary.  If it does get to r/t and trust is established, then you can consider whether or not you are open to pushing some of your limits.  But just the fact that she has made multiple excuses for not even getting on the phone makes me suspicious that something is not quite right. 

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

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RE: Her favourite fetish, my limit? - 10/8/2006 1:50:34 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		I think everyone is giving you good suggestions, underlimited.

You have far more patience than I. I wouldn't do online only for two years.... damn, I wouldn't do it at all.

One thing I think wasn't said is that you and only you can define your limits but you might want to consider a range of limits. Soft limits are things you don't want to do now, or not with a particular partner, or wish you want to approach very cautiously. Hard limits are "NO" regardless of person, time, or situation.

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And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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RE: Her favourite fetish, my limit? - 10/8/2006 1:52:23 PM   
underlimited


Posts: 34
Joined: 9/8/2006
Status: offline 		MsKat.... i think You are right. Maybe i wasn't clear enough by what kind of limit it was. So i guess the problem there was not communicating clear enough. i wrote Her an email about it, and if it's going to an issue, we're not compatible.

Testing if She is real is a much harder thing to walk away from (since there is always the chance She is real if i walk away without knowing). But like most of You said, if it doesn't feel right..... then it's proboably best to walk away! *i'll try the phone thing first* :)

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RE: Her favourite fetish, my limit? - 10/8/2006 1:55:31 PM   
MsKatHouston


Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline 		You don't necessarily have to walk away...but if she can not even talk to you on the phone for legitimate reasons continually (and there are those) then how much time can she devote to you in person?

There are times I can not talk on the phone for various reasons...but when those occur, I can call back, make a time when it is more convenient, etc.  A slew of continual excuses brings up red flags for me

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

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RE: Her favourite fetish, my limit? - 10/8/2006 2:17:16 PM   
Nikolette


Posts: 488
Joined: 10/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: underlimited

Anything further would make me feel disturbed.



Tell her this. If she still pushes with it... I'd say that was enough of a problem to end things right there. DISTURBING someone isn't acceptable in my opinion. I just was saying a few days ago on another thread that the entire concept behind "forced" bi... is that the sub WANTS to do this, but doesn't identify as bisexual for whatever reason. What gets them off is the mental aspect of doing it for their Domme. Bottom line- they WANT to. ~YOU~ do not. To force YOU to is actually FORCING you - which in my opinion is very wrong and innappropriate and could cause serious psychological trauma to you. If she thinks its okay to get you to do something that would disturb you she clearly isn't a healthy person in her own right. No matter how real she could turn out to be that is a massive problem, and a red flag to take into account.

I personally LOVE forced bi. Its something that I inquire about at the begining and if its a hard limit- I don't push it. If its something they are open to, but turn out not to like it- I don't push it. Forcing another person (really forcing them, not playing on the concept, which they consent to) to do any sexual act is dangerous.

As a slave/submissive its YOUR job to clearly articulate your own desires and interests and levels of investment and submission in any relationship. Its YOUR job to outline your boundaries and then stick to your own comfort level. Its YOUR job to protect yourself and advocate for your own safety. Its more important to do what works for you, rather than to try to conform to what other people might feel like you "should" be doing as a submissive.

Too often I see submissive people unclear about their own rights as a human being. The entire foundation of BDSM in my opinion is consent. That is the only thing keeping it from drifting into an abusive (or at least unhealthy) relationship. If you start to compromise your consent, ethics, safety, or sense of identity you are putting yourself in a position of powerlessness that isn't healthy under any circumstances.

Its hard to find the line between what you are consenting to willingly, comfortably, and what you are doing out of obligation, or manipulation.

I would really recommend looking for another submissive male to befriend and get some mentoring from.

And remember, as I often say, communication about expectations, needs, and limits is a two way road. Don't feel shy or unsubmissive by clearly stating who YOU are, what YOU need, and what is unacceptable for YOU. Make boundaries for yourself, and hold people to them. This is the best way to find your own validation, and to lead you to authentic experiences with real people, who have the potiential to be healthy and well balanced, and can lead to the deeper relationship and exploration which you seem to desire.

I personally am thrilled that you are someone who is more interested in getting to know someone in person, than just living out your fantasy online. As hard as it will probably be- try not to get jaded by all your bad experiences!

_____________________________

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RE: Her favourite fetish, my limit? - 10/8/2006 2:41:36 PM   
underlimited


Posts: 34
Joined: 9/8/2006
Status: offline 		Thank You for a great advice. i started out the forum with alot of doubts, because i tend to value every opporunity, especially when not so many are given. Finding a local Domme who is also available and interested is especially hard, but that's how this lifestyle is. We have to look hard and give up on alot of opportunities (fake and real ones) to make ourselves happy.
Whatever happens next, i will not dispair. Compatibility is not always there and that's okay.

Her being some FemDom guy will make me very dissapointed, but i have to be prepared to face that as well. Thanks for the great tips on how to test it all out.



(in reply to Nikolette)
Profile   Post #: 20
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