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RE: Censorship - 1/22/2005 12:56:38 PM   
harmony3709


Posts: 292
Joined: 11/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jillwfsub4blkdom

harmony,
Dang get out of my head and you said that so much better than me lol.

jill



LMAO -- a psychic subbie......

harmony

(in reply to jillwfsub4blkdom)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Censorship - 1/22/2005 1:06:58 PM   
LdyAuburn


Posts: 179
Joined: 5/9/2004
Status: offline 		Jules, if I can add my regret at your lurking and not posting as well. I have not been posting for that long but have read, laughed, grumbled, disagree, gone Ahhh excatly etc at your postings. (Please note definitely not at the same posting )

I am sure at some stage (maybe a rite of passage here) to have a post pulled because it is contra to the rules. For example in my employment I work to an agreement. Which thousands of others work to in the same organisation. Some managers use the agreement to the nth degree, some dont. Definitely not saying that is what happened here (not quite sure except threads have been pulled and people are objecting)
What I am saying is I work for them so it is their rules.
For me the forums are an exchange of ideas and sometimes just idle banter. At least if i get cranky I get to kick the person who sits at my feet in the evenings. Pity him cause I get grumpy lots

Regards to all

< Message edited by LdyAuburn -- 1/22/2005 1:07:54 PM >

(in reply to harmony3709)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Censorship - 1/22/2005 1:10:29 PM   
EStrict


Posts: 729
Joined: 1/11/2004
Status: offline
quote:

there's a difference between saying -- I don't agree with what you have to say and I don't agree with your right to open a topic for discussion


So does that mean you believe the site has not *right* to consider certain things off limits for the sake of legal issues which THEY are the ones who will be held accountable? Censorship sucks, but to me what sucks more is people believing they are above rules. Yes, America allows free speech. They also allow you to bear arms. Go buy a gun and see how long it takes to *legally* get one and the restrictions on what you can *legally* buy.

This site post its guidelines in EVERY section. There are moderators who are always willing to help. The rules are vague in places and subjective in others, but I see that more to ALLOW iffy things. Plus, of course, the very simple fact that logically if you cannot discuss/do a specific thing because of legalities, even them explicitly explaining them would be breaking them, wouldn't it? I mean the people who get sites like this closed down when they cross certain lines aren't going to say *oh, they weren't REALLY breaking it there, they are just explaining what people can't do/say*...

_____________________________

Sandy

Don't take life too seriously, no one gets out alive anyway...

(in reply to harmony3709)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Censorship - 1/22/2005 1:42:19 PM   
harmony3709


Posts: 292
Joined: 11/15/2004
Status: offline 		My point about the right to post or not was strictly intended toward members -- NOT moderators. I am sorry if I was unclear in that, but again, my objection was that at times someone would post a question or a comment and then the replies by other posters would basically state that the question should not have been asked in the first place and any discussion should not take place. The censorship in this case that I am referring to came from members who apparently felt THEY had the right to say what was discussed and what was not.

In no way did I mean to imply that the moderators do not have the right to pull threads or decide what was or is inappropriate. It is their site first and foremost and quite frankly, I would prefer that there are mods keeping tabs on what is going on and being posted for many reasons, and am glad they are giving their time to do just that.

harmony

(in reply to EStrict)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Censorship - 1/22/2005 1:59:41 PM   
EStrict


Posts: 729
Joined: 1/11/2004
Status: offline 		ahhh,, sorry about the misunderstanding. I agree with you, if it is not against TOS, it is not up to anyone to tell someone their post is something that shouldn't be asked. If it is against TOS, it still isn't, the moderators will take care of it.



_____________________________

Sandy

Don't take life too seriously, no one gets out alive anyway...

(in reply to harmony3709)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Censorship - 1/22/2005 8:36:33 PM   
ShadeDiva


Posts: 1005
Joined: 3/31/2004
From: Sacramento, California
Status: offline 		Read the thread and I'll say this:

Jules I am of the community - and so to be acurrate I'd ppint out - some folks backed nella, and others, like me, pointed out nella's misconceptions, which could be interpreted I suppose as backing you. *smile*

In my mind, I was being nuetral but the facts simply laid in your favor on that issue.

Don't leave, don't be less blunt. Screw em if they get bent out of shape because they are blinded by their own baggage - it happens. Why allow them to affect you, or how you conduct yourself? Yanno?

As for IYM, when he first got here I enjoyed his posts - and he was pretty on the dot most of the time. But I have to say I agree with Gloria. He was getting really erratic - and very over the top, and it wasn't meshing with the same person I'd seen him as when he got here. I think in one post I finally had to point out he was doing the very exact thing he was sitting there repeatedly moaning about all over the place, so was thus being the very thing he was complaining about.

He seemed to get more and more hostile and ranty, whereas before he seemed to be on an even keel. I dunno, he merely seemed to be different to me, and like he was blowing off a large load of steam, and on several ocassions, he was totally canceling out his own posts with his own words, and seemed to be bordering at times here and there on being slightly irrational.

To leave is indeed their choice. Frankly, I can't concieve of being pissed off about a post getting pulled in the least - what a waste of energy that seems like. And to be honest - and I mean just non-pc, coldhearted, nonemotional honest - his posts in this thread had the same exact tone of all the posts he mocked so gleefully about oh how did that go ... "being whiny assed babies that need to be run off if they cant take CM and handle it like adults" or something along those lines.

At least they seem a hell of a lot similiar to me. The sword cuts both ways.

It's not my site, and it's a free site. If they pull something of mine <shrug> so be it. If I choose to donate to it, it makes me NO BETTER and NO LESS than those that don't. And I am glad to see, that CM doesn't base it's post pulling by who has paid, for then, IMO, *that* would be censorship in the form of favoritism. I expect the mods to do the best they can and yeah to fuck up from time to time. It happens.

As I've said in many of my sites - "the rules are by far, more for me and my mods than they are for the members" and that I suspect is true here.

Rules help us draw those lines that we have to draw. They make deciding what is okay and what is not okay easier. If a ruile is laid down and enforced no matter who they are, you are on a good site.

I wish they hadn't left - I found value in both their posts, but he was indeed acting out of character at least to me, and it seems he has some perosnal demaons to handle right now. More power and peace to them both and may they one day be back.

Just what it seemed like from the sidelines where my chair is parked at anyway, for what little my take is worth, lol.

~ShadeDiva

_____________________________

~ShadeDiva
My projects of love:
theFetishForums
HumanFauna
Kinked
DommeWorld

(in reply to EStrict)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Censorship - 1/22/2005 11:09:14 PM   
ModeratorOne


Posts: 935
Status: offline 		Just a quick note here

quote:

Because I did not know how to reach you directly, I sent my email to your support@collarme address.


[email protected] does not work and has not for a long time now. The only way to send site support is to go through the actual button on the site. You have messaged me through the site before and I have responded. I find it surprising that you would try and "reach me" through the support system which I may not even see. Especially since ModThree was contacted through the site.

To Harmony,
quote:

"but the fact that it seemed to be that what was being discussed was whether the topic should have been posted at all or whether that topic should be discussed. I think there's a difference between saying -- I don't agree with what you have to say and I don't agree with your right to open a topic for discussion. "


We have certain guidelines in place and they are there for specific reasons and we attempt to adhere to them as best we can. We do not pull posts due to personal agendas nor is it our desire to censor anyone or stifle discussions. When we pull a post it is usually because there was a violation of our TOS or guidelines typically dealing with organizational or legal issues.

The thread was pulled because it was in violation of our guidelines and if anyone wishes to discuss the specifics of it, you may message me privately and I would be happy to discuss it with you.

Thank you,

ModOne

(in reply to ShadeDiva)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Censorship - 1/23/2005 4:40:49 AM   
harmony3709


Posts: 292
Joined: 11/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: harmony3709

My point about the right to post or not was strictly intended toward members -- NOT moderators. I am sorry if I was unclear in that, but again, my objection was that at times someone would post a question or a comment and then the replies by other posters would basically state that the question should not have been asked in the first place and any discussion should not take place. The censorship in this case that I am referring to came from members who apparently felt THEY had the right to say what was discussed and what was not.

In no way did I mean to imply that the moderators do not have the right to pull threads or decide what was or is inappropriate. It is their site first and foremost and quite frankly, I would prefer that there are mods keeping tabs on what is going on and being posted for many reasons, and am glad they are giving their time to do just that.
harmony



I can only repeat what I said above........and again apologize if I was confusing in anyway.

harmony

< Message edited by harmony3709 -- 1/23/2005 4:41:59 AM >

(in reply to harmony3709)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Censorship - 1/23/2005 7:10:48 AM   
MizSuz


Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

We don't see all that happens. We have our own lives. Sometimes we don't read the board in its entirety. We miss posts.


Boy is that an understatement. I don't read all the threads, often simply because the topic doesn't interest me. I haven't a CLUE what the upset is here, this is my first clue and I'm in the dark. It's ok, I don't really need to have specifics to see that there is some upset about the way moderation occurs here.

I'm sorry to see some of the more active and long time users back off, but I can relate to waking up to realize that I'm taking something WAY too seriously and need to create some distance - either to cool my jets or to get some perspective or just to get away from what I've come to realize is smegma.

I hope those that have chosen to back away will reconsider in time. I know that I wouldn't fault anyone for going away for a time and then returning to 'test the waters' again.

When I owned my studio I had a taste of what, I think, the owners of this site have to deal with. It was incumbent upon me to decide to what degree I censored the activities that took place in my studio. I had to try to make it an enjoyable & safe experience for everyone while making sure that nobody put me at a higher legal risk than I wished to take on (and it was definitely MY risk to take on). Often that's a razor's edge to walk; and no matter how benevolent, a dictator must still be a dictator. This site is a dictatorship, not a democracy, and in the final analysis it is the dictator who gets to decide (kinda like D/s).

I suppose I could always open my own message board and be the dictator there, but I don't want that kind of work or expense. So, I agree to the dictatorship here much the same as those who came to my studio agreed to my dictatorship there.

When I stop agreeing to said dictatorship I will stop posting (as has been done here by others). Again, I do hope that in time they will reconsider. I don't have to agree with someone to value their perspective. I have a shining example of that in the Health & Safety board with beth. We disagree on the final choice, but I am impressed by how she arrived at her own choice and looked forward to her input on the topic; as well as enjoyed being able to share my own experience. I enjoyed the debate and the opportunity it created for me to examine my own truths. Even in disagreement there was opportunity for me so it 'added value.'

I hope the dissenters get what they need.



_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to sub4hire)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Censorship - 1/23/2005 7:17:10 AM   
liljoy


Posts: 577
Joined: 3/25/2004
Status: offline 		i find it sad that the people whose posts i'e come to enjoy the most are hardly posting anymore.
we have had a sudden influx of new people and many of them seem angry or just out to be disruptive.

If all the people interested in really having discussions back away, what does that accomplish? Doesn't it gie the angry disruptive people just what they seem to want? They seem to want to turn CM into some kind of petty little play ground where they have free rein to flame and whateer else they have on thier agenda.

i for one would HATE to see that happen because this was the first place i'd found that wasn't like that

lil_joy

(in reply to harmony3709)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Censorship - 1/23/2005 8:21:13 AM   
MrThorns


Posts: 919
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline 		Well this is certainly something I've been beating my head against a wall about for some time. I agree that rules need to be enforced to maintain some form of order, but I disagree with the inconsistenies in how those rules are enforced, I disagree with the removal of an entire thread, which punishes all posters instead of those that had committed the infractions, and I disagree with the additional cynical comments made from certain moderators...specifically mod3..when they close down a thread.

Now to present a problem without providing possible solutions doesn't solve anything. I would propose that Collarme finds itself 8-10 more moderators to help monitor the boards. Sometimes threads are closed quickly because its easier to close the thread and reveiw it later, than to let it get out of control while the mod is busy with the many other things that must be reviewed. More mods mean more time availanle to review and assess. If there were more moderators, time could be used to sift through the threads and remove only the posts that violate the TOS. More mods could allow a more detailed review by multiple mods to determine if a thread has turned into flaming personal attacks, or if it is simple a heated debate in which people feel strongly about their position and argue in support of their convictions.

There's my 2 cents.

~Thorns



_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to INSIDEYOURMIND)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Censorship - 1/23/2005 10:53:38 AM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline
quote:

Hiya Happy,
By the way, I totally enjoy your posts. You give it straight.

Thanks and ditto. You already know I'm one of your biggest fans.

quote:

I think the thing I find most discouraging is that "being blunt" is not PC on these boards.

I'm not sure that is the case. I suspect that it may just be a difference in style; for example, I was born with an impaired sense of subtlety so I can't get my ideas across except by being blunt, so I imagine there are folks who are similarly unable to be blunt. However, I also think a lot of folks don't have the nerve to speak their minds plainly because they worry others will think they're not nice; such folks could also misinterpret bluntness by others as rudeness. Personally, I find such hypersensitivity and taking offense where it isn't intended to be really annoying.

quote:

ultimately, the dynamics of any community is in the hands of the "majority". . . .and I think the majority has spoken.

Well, the majority has also spoken in last November's election, and though I'm tempted to move to Canada or even *gasp* France I'm gonna stick around anyway out of spite and because I think the majority got it wrong. And as a member of the blunt minority here I think it would be a very dull place if everyone were just holding hands and singing Kumbaya with he majority. Perhaps some lurker will step up now and try to help the minority to keep the majority on their toes, but for purely selfish reasons I'm sorry to see ya go.

< Message edited by happypervert -- 1/23/2005 10:55:33 AM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to GoddessJules)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Censorship - 1/23/2005 11:15:58 AM   
subchris04


Posts: 17
Joined: 12/12/2004
Status: offline 		I really don't like to see anyone leave. I liked reading what Insideyourmind and cynicent wrote. I like Jules opionios also even though I didnt always agree with them. The thing that is bothering me the most here is all the negitivity about the new people. It seems like people are bothered because new people are trying to post or may not know as much as they do. I haven't been here that long and I really try not to post too much about someone elses comments. I think the people that haven't been here long or the newer people to the lifestyle have just as much right to be here as people that have been here for a year or how ever long they have been here. I am new here and I try to post but sometimes I feel the new people are not welcome here
slave chris

(in reply to happypervert)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Censorship - 1/23/2005 11:33:23 AM   
sweetpleaser


Posts: 689
Joined: 8/5/2004
From: Florida
Status: offline 		Jules: I like your posts very much. I appreciate that you say things bluntly. I don't have that ability myself so I admire that you do. This site would be very boring if we all acted like we are in Pleasantville. So, jump right back in!!!!


PS: FYI everyone; I didn't have a problem contacting Mod3 when I needed to. She responded quickly. You only need to email the Mods directly.

_____________________________

~ann~

It's not the men in my life that count, it's the life in my men.--Mae West

(in reply to GoddessJules)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Censorship - 1/23/2005 11:36:18 AM   
sweetpleaser


Posts: 689
Joined: 8/5/2004
From: Florida
Status: offline 		chris: new people are welcome here. I think what others are trying to say is that there are so many new people which means more posts than before it is hard to monitor them all. It is great to have fresh input!

_____________________________

~ann~

It's not the men in my life that count, it's the life in my men.--Mae West

(in reply to subchris04)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Censorship - 1/23/2005 4:34:05 PM   
velvetvixen


Posts: 378
Joined: 1/19/2004
Status: offline 		"I can see you're having an episode, I'll come back later."

SpongeBob Squarepants is so wise.


(in reply to INSIDEYOURMIND)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Censorship - 1/23/2005 4:49:18 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

The thing that is bothering me the most here is all the negitivity about the new people. It seems like people are bothered because new people are trying to post or may not know as much as they do.


This has actually been happening here for about a year. The regulars have gotten tired of it..and left. Not all. A lot of them.
People start fighting...well it just isn't worth reading post after post of crap.

What I also see as the problem. The lack of patience. Those of us who have been around here forever. We see the post's. Respond. Same post again..and respond. Well, some get tired of saying the same thing over and over. Which is perfectly fine. If you're tired of it, don't respond simple as that. That's where Proud comes in. Now I'm not 100% sure what she does is a good thing. People seem to like talking instead of reading. Asking their own questions and being answered. I guess it just depends on what sort of person you are. If you like to read. Or you like to ask. Myself, where I love reading. I think I'd rather ask and be answered than read 7 post's.
Just the other day someone had asked a question. Someone answered with a one word answer. Well, ok. You clearly didn't want to answer at all so why bother to post one word?
Just ignore it all together. Move onto a thread you're interested in.
Anyway, I half way feel like I'm lecturing. Although I do see that as the biggest issue overall on the board's. It has been for a long time now. We need to just learn to be tolerant of the newer people on the boards and ignore the questions we don't want to answer for the tenth time.

(in reply to subchris04)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Censorship - 1/23/2005 5:21:53 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
If Inside and cynn have departed, then I do wish them blessings upon their journey... they brought interesting and thought provoking discussions to the forum.

I wish they had not left. I wish I could have had the oppotunity to say goodbye. But for now, I remain knowing that it was their choice to depart.

As for the thread that was pulled... I do not know which one for sure it was... but I do believe that my thought is correct and in a way, I can understand Insides feelings of disatisfaction and disappointment.

And I can understand the need for the Moderators to edit the forum as they see fit to protect such a place as this from the threat of being sued and pulled from the net. This is something I believe is non negotionable. We know that they have to protect this wonderful site.

I have always respected Insides views, even if they did not match my own at times. Master has always taught me that I can learn even from those that do not share my views. He is of course right.

I have seen posts stating that m'Lady Jules posts can be too strong and forward for some peoples palete. This, I truely feel from a personal view, is wrong as I adore Her straight forward no nonsense postings that give in to nothing... because She is a Woman Who knows exactly who and what she is. I learn so much from Her.

I have nothing but the greatest respect for cyn and her elloquent posings.

I love happys quick, quirky and unique wit and sarcasm.

The Great Merc and His beautiful beth always had something thought provoking to say, with clear and open ideas that may not be politically correct for some, but at least they are honest and true to themselves. Again, I learn through their words.

As for myself... I know that some think my posts longwinded... let alone hard to read because of the font.

If this is all so... then don't read them. Just look to something else if passing the time is all you require. A wonderful, peaceful Man once told me that everyone has something to say... few people listen...but it is the wise who hears.

But you know what? We are all individual. Some erk others... some make most swoon (sweeping bow to m'Lord Lawrence)... some do not have english as a first language and are getting by the best they can and are doing better then others could if they tried in another language...(hugz petra and nella). And then theres the beauty that everyone can turn to without fear... who serves selfless and I 'proudly' consider her friend.

Lawrence is correct... There are new people coming onto the site. They dont know how it works and are very defensive... they come from sites that havent a pinch of the feeling of 'family' that collarme does. They are used to back biting and threats that aren't dealt with... maybe they put up walls that need to come down slowly over time. The influx of people from sites that now demand payment (and we all know the ones)... is going to make this site feel bloated and stuffy for a while... but patience is a beautiful virtue to behold. We all need air at sometime so we can breath and feel fresh again.

Inhale, contemplate, meditate and embrace... we may not all agree but we can give it time and understand.

Peace and Love



_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to INSIDEYOURMIND)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Censorship - 1/23/2005 5:28:07 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
sweet chris...

We were all new at sometime... I havent been here as long as some of the others... it takes patience and time to find ones feet... everyone is welcome and everyone learns something every moment of every day... even the 'seasoned' regulars...

Those that are rude and offensive or refuse to learn... thats their choice and freedom... as long as you are true to yourself in your responses, and allow your freedom to express become evident.

hugs and love to you

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to subchris04)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Censorship - 1/23/2005 6:31:44 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

That's where Proud comes in. Now I'm not 100% sure what she does is a good thing. People seem to like talking instead of reading. Asking their own questions and being answered.


Most of the time when i post links to prior threads on a subject it's just to offer more information, not to stifle input on the new thread.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to sub4hire)
Profile   Post #: 60
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