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The Lying Submissive - 10/8/2006 7:07:43 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

I have been talking to my Daddy about the issue of lying. We all know how important submissives find honesty in a dominant, and I have heard some reference to dominants finding their submissive lying to them to be completely unacceptable to the point of releasing a submissive for this infraction. The type of lying I am speaking of is the kind that a submissive might to do other people, either for self aggrandizement, or to be vindictive, or to keep themselves from being inconvenienced by others.

If you are a dominant would you keep a submissive that had lied to others? Would it depend on what these lies were? Would you demand your submissive come clean publicly if they lied, or would you cover up for them so you would not lose face?

As a submissive would you expect to be kept by your dominant if you had been dishonest with others? Would you want your dominant to cover for you if you had lied?

Personally I would expect to be dumped for this behavior, but at the very least I would expect to own my behavior… in talking about this I was wondering if anyone had faced this issue or knew what they would do concerning this issue.

Thanks for your ideas and input

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 10/8/2006 7:09:01 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

Post #: 1

RE: The Lying Submissive - 10/8/2006 7:18:56 PM

DiurnalVampire

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
If you are a dominant would you keep a submissive that had lied to others? Would it depend on what these lies were? Would you demand your submissive come clean publicly if they lied, or would you cover up for them so you would not lose face?

I HAVE dismissed submissives for things like this. When I was living back in NY, I had a femsub who had a nasty habit of making up stories to tell her other subbie friends about things we did or didnt do. She was trying to be impressive, but it gave me one hel of a reputation within our small group of lifestyle friends. I would never have known about how she acted, until someone came up to me at a bar we frequented. He was a Dom who had chatted with me several times before and he wanted to know if I could teach him a few things. Obviously, I had aquired an amazing skill with a single tail whip, tie the most amazing secure knots that can easily secure someone suspended so that I can whip them, and I had the setup in my home to do extensive work on.
She went home alone that night, after a very interesting and very loud confrontation in the ladies room. She had several other interesting fantasies that she had discussed as "ours" when in reality I hadnt even heard of several of them. It was completely unacceptable.

The ONLY acceptable lie I can see would be one to cover our choice of lifestyle from a vanilla. I can cope with that, when its necessary. However, short of that, if you are willing to lie to others, what prevents you from eventualy lying to me?

My opinion at least.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 2

RE: The Lying Submissive - 10/8/2006 7:21:43 PM

WetHotGoddess

Posts: 128
Joined: 5/18/2006
Status: offline

My subs are not given leniency to lie to me or to others. I do not make excuses and I do not accept excuses. Unless the lie is one that is made to keep from hurting someone, I find it very destructive. Allowing a lie (or covering one up) sets a precedent and once it is set, it can't be undone. I have released a sub for less and would do so again. Why should I put up withANYTHING less than the best behaviour?

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Your opinion is very important to us. Please hold for the next available representative.

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(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 3

RE: The Lying Submissive - 10/8/2006 7:23:22 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

That must have been extremely embarassing, and I cannot imagine how it would feel to be put in that predicament...

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)

Post #: 4

RE: The Lying Submissive - 10/8/2006 7:31:36 PM

DiurnalVampire

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

It was. She was a horror story, and has been in and out of my ife since, trying to repent. It did teach me, though, that if you allow a sub to get away with something once, they (like a child) will try it again. And some personalities find it necessary to tel stories, and as they grow, they get grander.
I kow better now, if I see any indication of that sort of behavior they are usually gone quickly.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 5

RE: The Lying Submissive - 10/8/2006 7:38:34 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

Well I try extremely hard to be an honest person, and I take it very seriously. I can say no one is perfect and there are no absolutes... of course I have been tempted to tell my son for example "Tell so and so I am not at home", but he pointed out to me a long time ago "You are asking me to lie".. Oh horrors! I could not do that, could I? I learned to be a better example. I do not think that all lies are irredeemable and submissives can be taught that those lies are unacceptable. But then there are fantastical lies, like the ones you mentioned, how does a dominant fix that?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)

Post #: 6

RE: The Lying Submissive - 10/8/2006 8:01:16 PM

MasterC46910

Posts: 108
Joined: 4/17/2006
Status: offline

One thing I demand is complete honesty to me. I am also known for my honesty. As my sub/slave she represents me. So honesty as well as integrity, humor, humility, and grace is important.

If she told a small lie to save someones feeling, or to make the situation better, I would be Ok with it and probability be proud of her for easing the tension.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 7

RE: The Lying Submissive - 10/8/2006 8:08:32 PM

lauren0221

Posts: 681
Joined: 8/29/2006
Status: offline

For me it all depends on the extent of the dishonesty, and the motivation for it. Chronic lying about everything - not healthy or good. Polite lies to save someone's feelings are okay in my book. Lies that hurt someone - not okay. Not telling someone that the reason you rewrote their brochure because they write like a mentally-challenged orangutan - okay:)

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 8

RE: The Lying Submissive - 10/8/2006 8:20:22 PM

TxBlkMistress

Posts: 337
Joined: 8/21/2004
Status: offline

I know first hand about giving a liar chances. I'm talking a couple of years here. I'm one of those that like to save lost puppies...lol....and I really liked him. Among other problems with him, this guy lied to me from day one about everything from his age to whether he had kids or not to where he lives. When I finally found out I gave him a chance to confess all, and start over...all I got was even more lies....this guy still tries to contact me...and he thinks I'm the worst person in the world and was being a tease to him because I won't consider him again....now he's on collarme,he sends long rambling emails, I block but he just changes his nik and starts all over again...and though he doesn't mention me by name in his profiles, his "tirads" are directed at me.....I don't understand the mentality of these people.

< Message edited by TxBlkMistress -- 10/8/2006 8:23:09 PM >

_____________________________

Being Domme it is a way of life for me, not a kink, but it's not the only thing that defines me. Get to know me as person, you might like what you find.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 9

RE: The Lying Submissive - 10/8/2006 8:25:39 PM

DiurnalVampire

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

You cannot fix a chronic liar. Sugarcoating, in my opinion is not lying. Someone who eases tension by bending the truth is far different than someone who concocts stories for their own personal gain. Whether they are looking for admiration from other subs, trying to make themselves look better to friends, whatever it is...
I can happily allow my boy to protect feelings. I could never allow him to lie for his own reasons.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to TxBlkMistress)

Post #: 10

RE: The Lying Submissive - 10/8/2006 8:32:57 PM

sweetnurseBBW

Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

I think honesty is number one between a Dominant and a submissive. If I ever lied I would expect to be dimissed. I wouldn't expect my Master to cover for me either. Lying is just one of those intolerable things to me.

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Sir Pain's pain slut

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Post #: 11

RE: The Lying Submissive - 10/8/2006 8:34:40 PM

cellibrat

Posts: 12
Joined: 12/31/2005
Status: offline

i recently had the experience this summer of a poly with my then former (and now former again) and another girl. it seemed that this girl had been lying all the way around to us and to another Dom. she was under consideration by this Dom and lied to him about her whereabouts were that weekend by telling him that her FATHER had DIED. i knew the Dom and found out about this and brough it to my Dom's attention. He released her only to take her back with the stipulation that if she was caught lying again she would be released no holds bars. well, she was found to be lying again, and he released her from the poly. Then to take back up with her again.. sighs.. bad situation i feel, but from my experience, she will and has been continually lying to him. i wouldnt trust her as far as i could throw her. So, in this, yes he released her but kept taking her back.. seems like He was looking for a punishment (imho)

i would ask to be released from a Dom if i found out that he had been lying to me or to another about me.

just my two cents.

celli

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)

Post #: 12

RE: The Lying Submissive - 10/8/2006 8:38:21 PM

sweetnurseBBW

Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

Agree. Once a liar , always a liar. I have had some horrid expereinces with chronic liars and as a result it makes me more distrustring. Chronic liars are only out to get what they want, no matter who it hurts.

_____________________________

Sir Pain's pain slut

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)

Post #: 13

RE: The Lying Submissive - 10/8/2006 8:40:23 PM

becca333

Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline

I think it's the reason, not the act itself, that's important. And the rules that have been agreed on between the two of you.

Lying that's hurtful and destructive indicates a lot more, and deeper, problems.

And a sub who continually, deliberately disrespects her Dom by doing that doesn't deserve him.

(in reply to TxBlkMistress)

Post #: 14

RE: The Lying Submissive - 10/8/2006 8:44:37 PM

teamnoir

Posts: 226
Joined: 4/5/2005
From: San Francisco Bay Area California
Status: offline

Depends on the lie, the reasons behind it, and the social acceptance of the lie. "It was a lovely party" seems to be a socially acceptable lie, eg.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 15

RE: The Lying Submissive - 10/8/2006 9:04:28 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: becca333

I think it's the reason, not the act itself, that's important. And the rules that have been agreed on between the two of you.

Lying that's hurtful and destructive indicates a lot more, and deeper, problems.

And a sub who continually, deliberately disrespects her Dom by doing that doesn't deserve him.

I completely agree with this.

It is not the lie that hurts the relationship. It is why the person needed to lie that does.

Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to becca333)

Post #: 16

RE: The Lying Submissive - 10/8/2006 9:25:53 PM

AbstractSavant

Posts: 149
Joined: 6/5/2005
Status: offline

Honesty should be the basis of any relationship...M/s, poly, vanilla and any other combo you can think of.

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 17

RE: The Lying Submissive - 10/8/2006 9:27:59 PM

spanklette

Posts: 882
Joined: 2/22/2005
Status: offline

As I've aged, I've had to learn the opposite. I've had to learn that there is a time to temper honesty with consideration of others. When I met Daddy, when asked for my opinion, I would preface with a question..."Do you want me to be honest or do you want me to make you feel good?" This was an easy way to tell myself that I wasn't hurting someone's feelings. And I was wrong. I can still be "brutally" honest at times, but those who know me well are careful when asking for opinions.

I dated a compulsive liar one time. Literally, he would lie just to lie. Sometimes it was harmless, and I found out much later that sometimes it wasn't. I've never understood what compels people to lie, but maybe that's naiveté on my part.

Certainly, I have uttered an untruth to make my life easier, but it has eaten me up every time. So, mostly I guess I don't understand how people live with themselves.

I think all of that ended up making sense.

Edited to add...Not only would I expect release from a Dom for lying, but from less intense relationships, as well. Lying is a purposeful thing that I wouldn't expect anyone to allow to permanently shape a relationship. Depending on the lie, one untruth can change the nature of an entire relationship. Leave me out of that, please.

< Message edited by spanklette -- 10/8/2006 10:03:38 PM >

_____________________________

~spanklette~

"The important thing is this: to be able at any moment to sacrifice what we are for what we could become. " Charles du Bois

"Please don't shout, can't you see I'm not listening." Billie Myers

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 18

RE: The Lying Submissive - 10/8/2006 9:51:33 PM

Emperor1956

Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline

While it sounds so Domly and such to say "no one who ever lies will serve Me" etc etc. I think that in fact people are rarely able to sustain this level of "integrity" (and I question whether it is in fact "integrity" at all -- I might argue that sometimes the absolute truth teller is in fact really not telling truth but intentionally hurting others).

There are many reasons that lies are acceptable in not only WIIWD but in our lives -- teamnoir mentions the most common, the "social" lie (or "little white lie") that smooths the wheels of social intercourse. Dinural mentions another area that most tolerate -- the lie to protect one's self and others from unwanted inquiries (Both are combined when a nosy coworker asks "What did you do this weekend"? and I reply "Oh, just hung out with the family and friends" rather than (A) "None of your goddamn business you nosy parker" or (B) "repeatedly spanked, flogged and paddled my darling little girl culminating in several acts of transgressive penetrative sex in various orifices resulting in several orgasms for each of us.")

Indeed, considering the number of people on CollarMe who are seeking relationships outside of their marriages, and who are concealing this, one might ask "would you accept a partner who DOESN'T lie?"

All that said, I would have serious problems with a submissive who repeatedly lied to third parties. I'd wonder why she did this, why she felt the need to keep it up, and ultimately it might affect our relationship even if I did not believe she was lying to Me.

E.

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 19

RE: The Lying Submissive - 10/8/2006 9:54:03 PM

diamonddreamlove

Posts: 770
Joined: 5/19/2006
Status: offline

Lying can become a bad habit if not stopped immediately. I have a teen son and he lies frequently and i was not the one that taught him to do it. It makes me sad and angry. So would i lie to my Dom. No freaking way for two reasons i am an honest person (basically except with vulture ex mother in law and that is fair since she never tells the whole story or the truth) and the other reason is i respect my Dom and wish with all my heart to please Him. I have learned that i would rather be beat for punishment than to see His expression when He has been disappointed in what i have done or said. Therefore i will avoid those pitfalls forever if possible. Lying is something i don't tolerate well from others and as such do not do to them. My Dom is the most important person in my life besides my child and i could not stand seeing His disappointment in me if i were to lie to Him. And i know that He would release me for doing so as i would expect Him to do. Also i consider omission to be lying and i would expect the same reaction from my Dom for that type of behavior.

_____________________________

"Many attempts to communicate are nullified by saying too much." Robert Greenleaf

(in reply to spanklette)

Post #: 20

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