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RE: What is considered "outside" BDSM? - 10/11/2006 2:29:03 AM

gypsylee

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aine

Puke drinking.....now that is something I've NEVER heard in correlation to BDSM. And I hope I never do. That just fucking squicks me out. That and the fact that I've spent the last day puking my guts out kinda puts the idea of puking WAY down on the list of fun activities. Let alone drinking it. I'm with ya there that it's gross, but again it's NOT a BDSM activity by definition. I've seen vids of guys drinking it for money at parties. A BDSM party perhaps? Nope, just your average frat function.

heh. i was just gonna say. puke drinking falls more under the realm of University students. particularly Engineering ones.

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RE: What is considered "outside" BDSM? - 10/11/2006 3:35:46 AM

gypsylee

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiteRadiance

...I know I am in a minority here, but I must wonder if BDSM is about bonding of the dominant to the submissive, or a "lifestyle" that houses and validates abusers and deviants, and gives them affirmation and acceptance no matter what they may do.

...Does anyone besides me feel that this type of total acceptance and all-inclusion lures predators to the lifestyle?

interestingly enough, the two D/s relationships i've been/am in, originated online. neither was on a BDSM related site. both men lived interstate and i took big risks in meeting them. the first i ended up marrying and having a child with. and we are still friends. the second i am living with now. these are the only relationships i've had that started online.

i have found myself in more than my fair share of abusive relationships. i am naturally submissive and sadly i have allowed various men to take advantage of this. but these tend to have been the relationships i just sort of fell into rather than men i have actively pursued.

i also spend a lot of time online on a "vanilla" site, where i am forever getting abusive/degrading messages and responses to my blog. outside the net, i've encountered "predators" in the form of employers, estate agents, mechanics, taxi drivers etc etc. whereas the people here, and i will single out the Doms because they are the most relevant to this question, have been mostly courteous and respectful towards me.

so i totally agree with Iskander's view re this whole thing being seen as some kind of "sacred" lifestyle which needs to be protected from "predators". to me BDSM is about "the bonding of the Dominant to the submissive" as you put it. end of story.

edited to add: i've always had a bit of a problem referring to BDSM as "the lifestyle". i mean, i've got a lifestyle whether i'm into D/s or not. and i bet it's a hell of a lot different to the lifestyles of others here.

so from now on i refuse to call it that!

< Message edited by gypsylee -- 10/11/2006 3:53:56 AM >

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RE: What is considered "outside" BDSM? - 10/11/2006 3:52:06 AM

darkinshadows

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You are entitled to your opinion, and fortunately it is only an opinion and you in no way 'police' BDSM.

Wearing a diaper is no different to another person who wears rubber, or a habit. You don't like it, walk away - your blessed with that ability. No one said it doesn't happen - and I am bloody glad it does.

Now forcing someone to do things your way and humiliating them or their practices against their will, which is exactly what you wish to do and ARE doing here on this public forum, is a no-no.

Look up the word consent and find out what it means - then come back when you have something more constructive to say.

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RE: What is considered "outside" BDSM? - 10/11/2006 4:08:25 AM

Iskander

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Amen to that! darkinshadows...
Bloody well said...

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RE: What is considered "outside" BDSM? - 10/11/2006 4:59:21 AM

LadyEllen

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Given whats been said then, its all the victim's fault, if he/she falls prey to some head case who happens to charm him/her sufficiently that no mental health issues in the predator are suspected?

So its the victim's fault, if she is raped. Its the victim's fault, if he is killed. We can also assume that serial killers' victims, had it coming. Because it is the character defect/ mental instability / lack of judgement on the victim's part, which renders them vulnerable?

When I say predator, I mean the sort of person who will act quite normally to acquire a victim, but whose motivations are less than normal, and whose execution of those motives is criminal. The same way that a paedo can be a respected member of the community such that parents have no issue in allowing their children to be with him.

Now, if someone is a repeat victim - then yes, we have to look at that person and ask questions. But anyone can fall victim a first time, through no fault of their own. To suggest that a one time victim is somehow responsible for the crime of some headcase is stupid, and lacks any understanding of the kind of headcases that are out there.

E

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RE: What is considered "outside" BDSM? - 10/11/2006 5:02:01 AM

Tikkiee

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I was in no way trying to indicate a one time victim LadyEllen. I have been on that end of the spectrum. My argument fell along the sides of those who continue to let it happen time and time again.

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RE: What is considered "outside" BDSM? - 10/11/2006 7:59:34 AM

Iskander

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
Given whats been said then, its all the victim's fault, if he/she falls prey to some head case who happens to charm him/her sufficiently that no mental health issues in the predator are suspected?

So its the victim's fault, if she is raped. Its the victim's fault, if he is killed. We can also assume that serial killers' victims, had it coming. Because it is the character defect/ mental instability / lack of judgement on the victim's part, which renders them vulnerable?

I've never said, and never will say it's the victims fault...
What I am saying is that I *will not* take responsibility for everyone... Joining some angry mob to chase down abusive predators online is futile, could lead to wrongful persecutions due to biased accusations and more importantly can lead to a false sense of security.. So someone feeling safe, gets in trouble and comes back here and blames the mob for not doing a good job... Fuk that!!!

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RE: What is considered "outside" BDSM? - 10/11/2006 8:02:33 AM

amlonging

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What I REALLY detest- is the fact that in this "lifestyle"-and particularly on these boards-people defend the toothless, dirty, drug addicted, idiot losers, the shit-rollers, puke-drinkers, diaper-wearers, or those who expect their subs to shit in front of people of suck off xxx.. all of this is acceptable behavior! So these folk- who are moral degenerates, IMO~~ are accepted as "normal and good" in these groups and circles. This all-inclusive attitude will be the downfall of the "lifestyle". I do not go to parties to watch someone take a dump. I am not a Mistress to mentally warp my sub. To say it isn't done- and cannot be done, is incorrect.

You are putting al hell of a lot of energy into something that seems to be comsuming you and you hae absoultely no control over. Speak privately to one person at a time. The old China wall was not built in a day, but brick by brick. I am not callous to your concern but I can do nothing about it, just like no other poster can do nothing about it. Ifeel the anger, but it is wasted energy. Take that energy, determination and use it wisely to help just one !

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RE: What is considered "outside" BDSM? - 10/11/2006 10:03:55 AM

becca333

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiteRadiance

I am not overly concerned about potential abuse to submissives who lay themselves in the hands of whomever happens to come along. I lack sympathy for those who continue to make poor choices.

What I REALLY detest- is the fact that in this "lifestyle"-and particularly on these boards-people defend the toothless, dirty, drug addicted, idiot losers, the shit-rollers, puke-drinkers, diaper-wearers, or those who expect their subs to shit in front of people of suck off xxx.. all of this is acceptable behavior! So these folk- who are moral degenerates, IMO~~ are accepted as "normal and good" in these groups and circles. This all-inclusive attitude will be the downfall of the "lifestyle". I do not go to parties to watch someone take a dump. I am not a Mistress to mentally warp my sub. To say it isn't done- and cannot be done, is incorrect.

Why do you think there are dungeon monitors at play parties, people??

I would sincerely LOVE to see a group of KINKY AS HELL people who had some sort of idea what discrimination is- and that it CAN actually be a GOOD thing. Yes- an elite group of kinky people.. LMAO.

(hearing it now- "who's to say what is elite?" "who would determine which activity would be acceptable or not?")

Three people with some sense would sit down and figure it out. ;)

Thank you all for your input. :)

I'll bet you felt a whole lot better once you vented that lot!

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RE: What is considered "outside" BDSM? - 10/11/2006 10:05:28 AM

becca333

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iskander

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiteRadiance
What I REALLY detest- is the fact that in this "lifestyle"-and particularly on these boards-people defend the toothless, dirty, drug addicted, idiot losers, the shit-rollers, puke-drinkers, diaper-wearers, or those who expect their subs to shit in front of people of suck off xxx.. all of this is acceptable behavior! So these folk- who are moral degenerates, IMO~~ are accepted as "normal and good" in these groups and circles. This all-inclusive attitude will be the downfall of the "lifestyle". I do not go to parties to watch someone take a dump. I am not a Mistress to mentally warp my sub. To say it isn't done- and cannot be done, is incorrect.

Did someone take a dump in your coffee? Geez...
I watched 'The notorious Betty Page" last night, interestingly in the court scene they were saying the exact same things about her pretty tame bondage shoots as you are spouting now...

Who gives a shit if someone wants to wear diapers etc?! Get off your high horse, morals are totally subjective..
If someone takes a dump at a party they leave it there, why do you insist on taking it home and rubbing our noses in it?

Stop talking about 'the lifestyle' as if it's something special and sacred... There is no one 'lifestyle'.. mine is not the same as yours, or anyone elses.. and you know what... if there was a downfall of this so called 'lifestyle', I would still continue to do what I do.. Just like some people collect butterflies, some collect nazi memorabilia and others collect snowglobes, but none of them collect because others do or don't...

I think you should just be more careful who you hang out with...

Iskander...

Once the discussion gets to snowglobes, you KNOW it's hit rock bottom.

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RE: What is considered "outside" BDSM? - 10/11/2006 10:08:12 AM

Tikkiee

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quote:

I've never said, and never will say it's the victims fault...

I believe that this was more aimed at me Iskander, from my statement here:

quote:

However, when someone does the same thing over and over and over again; to me that says that it is not the predators fault; its the victims fault. Maybe harsh thinking, but there it is.

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RE: What is considered "outside" BDSM? - 10/11/2006 10:22:34 AM

Iskander

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Ahh... That damn fast reply would be better if it didn't use the last posters name...

Iskander...

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RE: What is considered "outside" BDSM? - 10/11/2006 10:26:04 AM

Tikkiee

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LOL I really need to learn to elaborate more. What I meant was that LadyEllen's comment, I think it was more aimed at me because of that statement that I made.

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RE: What is considered "outside" BDSM? - 10/11/2006 12:07:50 PM

CreativeDominant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiteRadiance

I am not overly concerned about potential abuse to submissives who lay themselves in the hands of whomever happens to come along. I lack sympathy for those who continue to make poor choices.

What I REALLY detest- is the fact that in this "lifestyle"-and particularly on these boards-people defend the toothless, dirty, drug addicted, idiot losers, the shit-rollers, puke-drinkers, diaper-wearers, or those who expect their subs to shit in front of people of suck off xxx.. all of this is acceptable behavior! So these folk- who are moral degenerates, IMO~~ are accepted as "normal and good" in these groups and circles. This all-inclusive attitude will be the downfall of the "lifestyle". I do not go to parties to watch someone take a dump. I am not a Mistress to mentally warp my sub. To say it isn't done- and cannot be done, is incorrect.

Why do you think there are dungeon monitors at play parties, people??

Basically...to insure that the rules of the club are followed, to make sure that something within a scene is not being done due to coercion and that all things occurring in the scene are occurring with the consent of both parties. They are also there to handle problems occurring within the club that may occur with no relation to a scene. They are most assuredly NOT there to enforce their moral standards.
Again...you have the right to think whatever you want to about where YOUR limits are. You even have the right to think what you want about the practices of other people. It is NOT your right to stop it because you find it morally reprehensible.
Unless..........you think the pastor of the most fundamental church in town has the right to stop YOUR behavior because, in the eyes of many in the community in which you live, you would be considered morally reprehensible?

quote:

I would sincerely LOVE to see a group of KINKY AS HELL people who had some sort of idea what discrimination is- and that it CAN actually be a GOOD thing. Yes- an elite group of kinky people.. LMAO.

(hearing it now- "who's to say what is elite?" "who would determine which activity would be acceptable or not?")

Three people with some sense would sit down and figure it out. ;)

And who determines what constitutes "some sense" in these people? The fact that they agree with your outlook? What if they don't? Does that preclude them from having "some sense"? And if so, then basically what you are saying is that, as long as they think like you, then they are discriminating enough to determine the standards for the rest of us "moral reprobates".

Thank you all for your input. :)

Hey...you're truly welcome.

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RE: What is considered "outside" BDSM? - 10/11/2006 6:28:28 PM

WhiteRadiance

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CD- My question remains- is anything outside the spectrum?

I will defend any activity a seasoned/stable couple wants to engage in- in a safe and sane manner.. But not all who engage in, or read about this shit are safe nor sane. I think a bit of caution and discretion is a good thing. What I am referring to is not at all "policing".

I say what I think, and I know my opinions are not right for everyone. They are merley opinions.

Taking D/s and BDSM up a notch (keeping it pure) would improve it (to me). It seems to have morphed into an "Extreme Alternative Lifestyle".. that condones all behavior.  Especially in the public venue. What people do in the privacy of their homes is one thing.. but I honestly avoid certain groups and parties because (as I stated before) they are so desperate for people to come, they let anyone in. :)

I guess I am a snob. lol (But I am a kinky one so give me a break)

(I know I am not as eloquent as many of you and I seem to have trouble communicating my thoughts but hell, I try!)

edited to add: where did you get the idea I ever would try to stop a scene? LMAO

< Message edited by WhiteRadiance -- 10/11/2006 6:33:08 PM >

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RE: What is considered "outside" BDSM? - 10/11/2006 6:32:34 PM

justheather

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When my Daddy has me make naked snow angels in January, I consider it "outside" BDSM.

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RE: What is considered "outside" BDSM? - 10/11/2006 7:23:35 PM

Aine

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If you want to get into semantics....since BDSM is defined by the people that are involved....pretty much anything is fair game. From what I'm sure most every sane and safe person here will agree upon as some of the most depraved things like that which is unable to be spoken here on CM, to things like perhaps, nekkid snow angels.

It's all personal perception.

But....BUT, I have to point out that people that involve themselves in activities much like those found in the "normal" realm of BDSM that don't consider themselves BDSM are as much at a risk, liability, and likelihood to do and find such things like those unmentionable on CM things as perfectly normal and acceptable.

It don't matter whether you are in the "Lifestyle" or not.

Throw that OUT the window.

Where is the line drawn in HUMANITY when people start thinking those unmentionable things are ok and acceptable?

Usually when they are VERY unstable. And I will repeat what others have said. It ain't just da lifestyle that attracts the goons and malicious and those that should probably either be in a sanitarium or jail, or otherwise unavailable to the general public. I who ya are, where ya came from, I think that mostly unknowingly, many of us have grown up near someone we may or may not have known that do do those unmentionable things.

With as long as this lifestyle has been around.....no, I do not think that it necessarily attracts an abnormal amount of shouldbeinjails.

They have been plentiful in every walk of life for all time. It ain't somethin new.

But if you want to talk on basic moral levels, I honestly believe that there are a few very specific things that should never enter into having a ratts ass to do with the Lifestyle.

I couldn't care less what people do, as long as it is consentual, and non-harming in a malicious way. Just because it squicks me don't mean shit to other people. And it shouldn't. So there's absolutely no reason for me to make laundry lists of things that squick me out other than for laugh factor.

I'm never going to call someone on something that I may not like unless they are trying to involve me in some way without my consent or after I've already specified that "it aint' my bag".

Doing so otherwise, is just rude. IMHO

< Message edited by Aine -- 10/11/2006 7:25:31 PM >

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RE: What is considered "outside" BDSM? - 10/11/2006 7:47:05 PM

LTRsubNW

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aine

Puke drinking.....now that is something I've NEVER heard in correlation to BDSM. And I hope I never do. That just fucking squicks me out. That and the fact that I've spent the last day puking my guts out kinda puts the idea of puking WAY down on the list of fun activities. Let alone drinking it. I'm with ya there that it's gross, but again it's NOT a BDSM activity by definition. I've seen vids of guys drinking it for money at parties. A BDSM party perhaps? Nope, just your average frat function.

Gut feel: Puke drinking falls under "HARD limits".

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RE: What is considered "outside" BDSM? - 10/11/2006 7:59:36 PM

LASub4Real

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tikkiee

Hmmm, well...I am of the firm mind that what others do is their business, not mine. What I may see as abuse, could just be play in the eyes of others. Who am I to say differently?

But what if you were walking down your street and you heard some terrible yelping, and when you looked, there was some guy snapping of a puppies legs with a bolt cutter one by one? Would you call the Humane Society or mind your own business?

What if you witnessed someone being molested? Would you calmly chalk it up to intergenerational kink? Or like most people, would you try and report it?

The problem is that everything is not relative... some things are, some things clearly aren't

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RE: What is considered "outside" BDSM? - 10/11/2006 11:52:28 PM

becca333

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LASub4Real

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tikkiee

Hmmm, well...I am of the firm mind that what others do is their business, not mine. What I may see as abuse, could just be play in the eyes of others. Who am I to say differently?

But what if you were walking down your street and you heard some terrible yelping, and when you looked, there was some guy snapping of a puppies legs with a bolt cutter one by one? Would you call the Humane Society or mind your own business?

What if you witnessed someone being molested? Would you calmly chalk it up to intergenerational kink? Or like most people, would you try and report it?

The problem is that everything is not relative... some things are, some things clearly aren't

I never have to make those decisions - in that sort of situation I've attacked before I realise it. So I suppose my standard for judging is, if my protective instincts kick in and I fly to the defence of the victim, then it's worth that action. And if I don't feel that urge for bloodlust, then it's not a serious case. Simple.

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