Apalled- A Vent (Full Version)

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boundfem -> Apalled- A Vent (10/9/2006 10:22:40 PM)

In the last few months, I went with my Mistress to a weekend play party at someone's house.. He is a Master who hosts weekend long play parties on a very regular basis.  He invites many in the lifestyle... Dommes, Doms, couples, single subs.  To me,  most of the people there were more of the type who play with anyone and everyone.. top one person while bottoming to another.  For many, it was one big swinger kinky party.  That is fine and to each their own, it just wasn't my particular thing nor my Mistress's.  The thing that was shocking to me was that the Master who ran these parties felt he had every right to put his hands on me - a very clearly owned slave.  There was NO question I belonged to my Mistress; when I spoke to the Master on the phone for directions and arrangements beforehand, I always introduced myself as Mistress X's slave.  There was no question from our behavior, I was Her slave.  NO question. 

When we arrived, he gave us a tour of his dungeon and house.  The first contact was done kind of slyly.  He asked (yes the first time he asked) my Mistress if he could borrow me to show her a flogger and he then told me to stick my hand out and struck my hand a few times.  I was quite shocked at his forwardness.  I have NEVER been in a situation where another Dom put their hands on another slave unless invited to do so by said slave's Owner.  It's just the way things have been in ANY situation I have been in.  The only time that this was not the case was at clubs where people who were completely clueless and completely inexperienced in the scene thought it was like "Oh you are a sub, Me Dom.. me Dominate. You slut."  But, this Master has been in the scene for over 20 years.

A few minutes later, he wanted to demonstrate a glass suction/cupping set (it was like cupping but instead of using fire, you use a valve that pulls all the air out of the cup).  He merely told me to stick out my hand!  Stepping over my Mistress's practically while my Mistress was sitting right there.  I was kneeling at the time.  I almost instinctively stuck out my hand, but then realized I was obeying a Dom who was not mine!  So I pulled my hand back and asked my Mistress if I should.. She politely said yes but I knew She was bothered as well.. She does not share Her slaves, it is completely not Her style.  But, this was this Master's house and it would have been awkward to do anything else.

So, he demonstrated two cups on me and that was it for the time being.

Later a couple of hours later, everyone was downstairs in his dungeon except for a few people in the living room/kitchen.  My Mistress sat down in a chair and I knelt  beside Her.  She decided to bite me on the back of the neck (a penchant of Hers)- twice.  The second time had me reduced to sobbing hysterics.  The people who were not in the dungeon gathered around to watch and compliment - all fine and good.  The Master then put his hands on the back of my neck and stroked my neck and hair.  Are you kidding me?????? To put your hands on an owned slave???   He did not even ask this time, but it would have been completely uncalled for even if he did ask.. asking itself would be inappropriate.  Aside from the fact that it was a very intense moment between my Mistress and myself.  If my Mistress wanted someone's hands on Her slave She'd decide and invite someone, but She doesn't and didn't.

Again, there was no way to say anything - it would have been incredibly uncomfortable and awkward for Her especially in front of other people gathered around (and I of course could not say anything myself with Her there, if I was by myself, maybe but it still would be awkward).  Believe me, both my body language and that of my Mistress's did not indicate that this was welcome.

Later on, my Mistress decided to play with me in the dungeon.  She had me strapped down completely and blindfolded.  She was talking with someone right by me and the Master came over and again put his hands on me, running his hands all over my back, through my hair and over my neck where She bit me.  He then KISSED MY NECK!  My Mistress came over and tried to subtly get his hands off of my by putting Her hands on me and subtly, subconsciously pushing his hand away, but the whole situation was freaking unbelieveable!

I have heard others in a sense whispering that they have had similar experiences with this Master both in his home and elsewhere... he can't keep his hands off of female subs it seems.  But, generally, he and his parties have a good reputation.  He even invited my Mistress and myself back but I doubt She is going for several reasons, but especially that.  She is afraid he will be touchy with Her as well. 

What does one do in that situation? We were there for two days and kind of trapped.  It was his house and his show, there was no way to say anything that would have not been incredibly awkward.  I also feel like I want to out him somewhere - like one other message board I read where he advertises his parties sometimes.

To me, like the #1 rule in the Scene at ANY public event is DO not put your hands on anyone who does not belong to you.  #2 do not interrupt someone else's scene.  Stand back politely and watch quietly.

I can not believe someone in the scene for twenty plus years behaves this way with no regard for respect, ownership and just basic common courtesy!




Jasmyn -> RE: Apalled- A Vent (10/9/2006 10:29:13 PM)

You say "fuck off"




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Apalled- A Vent (10/9/2006 10:41:20 PM)

Your rules are generally correct, but as you said this was a very casual and swinger kinky play group- the rules were obviously relaxed and as host, its his rules that go.

I'm sorry you were made to feel uncomfortable and it was obviously the hosts wrongdoing to not inform you of the rules or to be so oblivious enough to keep doing things if you were so uncomfortable.  However, neither you nor your mistress seem to have ever at any point simply said "Please don't touch without explicit permission"  It's really not that awkward, and it makes the point clear and direct.

Rules for private events should not be automatically assumed to be the same as they are for general public.




SlaveAkasha -> RE: Apalled- A Vent (10/9/2006 10:55:45 PM)

I would have to say that some of the fault does fall on your Mistress.  Yes, it was his place, but you are her slave.  It's her place to step in, awkward or not, and put a stop to anything she feels is not appropriate for you to be exposed to.
 
When you are with her, you should always know that she will stand up and not allow anyone to put their hands on you that is not agreeable to your situation.
 
I will say that his manners left a lot to be desired, but his actions not being stopped wasn't exactly the most graceful act in town either.
 
Akasha




MagiksSlave -> RE: Apalled- A Vent (10/9/2006 11:09:54 PM)

Im honestly apalled that your Mistress did nothing to stop him.. Yes he was being incorect as far as most peoples M/s situations are but it was his house and beeing as neather of you said nothing to stop his behavior how mad can you really get at him, was he wrong in my opinion yes he should never touch anothers slave, but that is aparently not how he does things in his house. It was your Mistresses job to keep you safe from the behavior as well as your responsability to talk to your Mistress about her not defending you. The trueth of the matter is you are both adults slave or not and it is both of your responsabilities to say something if something you dont like is going on!!!

Magik's slave




susie -> RE: Apalled- A Vent (10/9/2006 11:50:48 PM)

I too am surprised that your Mistress said nothing to stop this. I understand it was in someone else's house but my Masters concern for my wellbeing would have far outweighed any misgivings he might have had at saying something to the host. Perhaps you should discuss this with your Mistress, it may be that she was not as unhappy with the situation as you seem to have been.




Mavis -> RE: Apalled- A Vent (10/10/2006 12:01:16 AM)

wow, what an experience!  Her decision was to use diplomacy..  i wouldn't like it, and it sounds as if you didn't like it much either, but you seem ok with the fact that She choose to handle it that way.  Well, good for you..  you didn't freek too badly, and left Her in charge and didn't embarrass Her by jumping up.   i'm not saying it would have been so bad if you HAD..  but just the fact that you didn't,  i'm sure She appreciates it.  (She prolly feels pretty bad about the whole thing too.  Must be very difficult for Her to be a dominant in a situation She felt She couldn't manage without seeming rude.)

just wanted to say, geez, rough, what a jerk he was!




MzMinx -> RE: Apalled- A Vent (10/10/2006 12:32:37 AM)

hmmmm there are many ways of saying no thank you, without being rude .. including asking him for a  moment alone, and requesting  him  not to do what ever ..  simply explaining such in a  calm quite manner isnt rude .. in fact its the opposite

there are no set rules in this lifetyle, although their are many commonly held beliefs and expectations,  but even in swingers events it is still consentual and walking into a premises does not imply you are avaliable to everyone there

Touching someone else without their (or their owners ) permission.... is frowned on pretty much in all places bdsm, swingers or other so even if no one wished to 'stop' him in the act .... not broaching it as an issue at some time over the two days seems to me quite strange

I am not certainly not  condoning what he did .... but speaking to him would not have been rude if done in the right manner ... in fact I wonder if he really knows he was being such a  jackass.. If everyone always stays silent when he oversteps a boundry,  then he might simply be selfish and unaware ...

I am sorry that you are  your Lady where made uncomfortable ....  but  it being a lifetyle event .. does not abdicate responsability for ensureing our own comfort ... or the comfort of those we have control over ... by the time it got  to the  play session .. He would have been told in a very calm but  very clear voice to take his hands off you .... I may not have shouted at him but it would not have remained subtle, if he had not stopped immediatly .... I would have already explained to him much earlier, that  you where off limits and he would understand exactly how annoyed I was with his lack of manners and understanding ...




Kedicat -> RE: Apalled- A Vent (10/10/2006 12:40:41 AM)

It seems your Mistress was dominated to some extent. Maybe by her own manners. It was up to her to set the limits. Up to the other Dom to be more respectful. He tested her, and she failed in a way. It is a common dynamic in a gathering of dominants and subs. Words need not be spoken. Asking, permitting etc between Dominants can be known simply by eye contact, body language etc. The very things they should also know and use when dealing with subs.

There was testing going on.




KatyLied -> RE: Apalled- A Vent (10/10/2006 12:50:06 AM)

And many people in the lifestyle wonder why others are not eager to participate in munches, demos, dungeons, etc, it can be like an alternate, uncomfortable universe.




becca333 -> RE: Apalled- A Vent (10/10/2006 1:56:13 AM)

You Mistress should have spoken out, politely but firmly, from the beginning.  And you had every right to say something too, you're her slave, but to anyone else you're an independent human being.  He had no right to behave that way, but if he started and nobody said anything, he probably had no idea you didn't want his attention.

If you and your Mistress go to any other events, I'd suggest the two of you decide how you will both handle this situation.  If you give your trust to her, she should step forward to protect you.




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Apalled- A Vent (10/10/2006 1:57:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied
And many people in the lifestyle wonder why others are not eager to participate in munches, demos, dungeons, etc, it can be like an alternate, uncomfortable universe.

I don't wonder.  But I consider it just a part of adult human community interactions- same things happen in vanilla venues all the time.  We either learn to navigate them successfully or we stay home alone.  Both are perfectly legitimate choices for a person to make.




FelinePersuasion -> RE: Apalled- A Vent (10/10/2006 2:02:49 AM)

you both had a responciblity to leave if his behavior made you unhappy. personally after the touching you after a biting you guys should of left if you were that offended/. You can also say no to any request even if their hosting the party, yeah you might not be asked back but if he's that pushy who cares/




RiotGirl -> RE: Apalled- A Vent (10/10/2006 2:08:10 AM)

my Master would of simply looked and me and said "get in the car"  and i dunno if he would of had words.  We would of just simply left or i dunno.  Never been in a situation like that.. his presence can be abit intimidating i think.  Closets thing i can think of was when we were at a bar/club in Orlando and i was dancing on the bar and a bouncer told him he couldnt touch me.  He looked up at me and said "get down we're leaving"

So while there are many ways to say "stop" with out actually saying it, i'm suprised you 2 just didnt leave.  When it comes to being polite and well not awkward in a social setting where supposed protocols are set up - when things like that happen, why do you care?  If your Mistress had looked at him and said "hands off" and he got offended?  So what?  Do you plan on involving him in your life?  And if others have a problem with it.. who cares? 

i know a Dom, who when others would get too close to his bottom while they were playing in public scenes would literally whip them with like a warning strike.  And when the person got upset he would look at them and say "you shouldnt be close enough to where i can reach you"  He's got a point.. He has no problems telling others "back off my territory". 





becca333 -> RE: Apalled- A Vent (10/10/2006 2:20:40 AM)

If you're going to give total submission and trust to a Dom/me, then that person should make sure your limits are respected, and that you're protected in these situations.

Being a slave doesn't mean you have no rights.




Tobes -> RE: Apalled- A Vent (10/10/2006 2:46:32 AM)

Much of what I think on this has already been said, but I have two small points I'd like to address.

The first is that, while it's been obliquely alluded to by a few people, you've got a responsibility here, too, if you're uncomfortable.  The first time it happened, sure, I can see you deferring to your Mistress and letting her deal with the guy.  But she didn't, for whatever reason.  If you're still uncomfortable with what he's doing, tell your Mistress.  Don't just make it obvious with body language or facial expressions.  Use your voice, because until you do, she can only guess what's going through your head, just like you had to guess what she was thinking when it seemed clear that she didn't like his advances but said nothing to him.  Several posts in this thread have talked about it being her responsibility to protect you, and while that may or may not be the case (or even applicable), she'd probably be likelier to speak to him if she knows for certain how you feel.

The second is that I'm surprised so many posters are maligning this guy.  It seems to me that he's acting in keeping with whatever propriety he established at his little venue, and if no one tells him his actions are unwanted, how can he know if he's done something wrong?  I don't agree with his actions, but it's already been mentioned that there aren't any pan-lifestyle protocols, and if the rules of his events assume silent consent, he's violated nothing (as far as he knows).  If there're other people who talk behind the scenes about how he oversteps their bounds, it sounds like there're plenty of people for to petition that the rules be changed, or at least to prove to him that he's habitually crossing boundaries.

The sum of both my points is that it was a bad situation that could've been far less bad if the parties involved had been candid with one another.  Tact could've been maintained, but even if it couldn't, involuntary breaches of one's comfort zone supersede social niceties.  Speak up -- the only people who'll vilify you for it are the ones who're getting away with something in your silence.




becca333 -> RE: Apalled- A Vent (10/10/2006 2:49:53 AM)

You know, life would be a lot simpler if we were all telepathic.




LordODiscipline -> RE: Apalled- A Vent (10/10/2006 3:30:51 AM)

quote:

Again, there was no way to say anything - it would have been incredibly uncomfortable and awkward for Her especially in front of other people gathered around (and I of course could not say anything myself with Her there, if I was by myself, maybe but it still would be awkward).


quote:

She was talking with someone right by me and the Master came over and again put his hands on me, running his hands all over my back, through my hair and over my neck where She bit me.  He then KISSED MY NECK!  My Mistress came over and tried to subtly get his hands off of my by putting Her hands on me and subtly, subconsciously pushing his hand away, but the whole situation was freaking unbelieveable! 


1. The two of you could have left (apparently you did not)
2. She could have said someting directly to him at any f these instances (apparently she did not).
3. She could have reached out and smacked him (apparently she did not).
4. How do you know he has twenty years?  Just because he says so is no reason to believe it is so -and, he demonstrates that he is ignorant of common practice (as you repeated this more than a few times, I thought to mention it.)

Look -

 
Be as outraged publically as you want - but, if it was that big a deal (and,I am ot saying it is not) then your mistress or yourself should have done something about it then and there...
 
If you take the time to whine about it here - it should have been taken care of there.
 
If this is something that squicked you then - and, disurbs you now, it should have been dealt with then.
 
Walk out, smack him, have words with him, subtly tell him to 'knock it off'.. something.
 
Posting it here will not save your delicate sensibilities if your mistress decides to go back there - and, he will definitively do the same - with you and/or with others - as no one has spoken with him.
 
~J




ExSteelAgain -> RE: Apalled- A Vent (10/10/2006 3:53:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline

Look -
 
Be as outraged publically as you want - but, if it was that big a deal (and,I am ot saying it is not) then your mistress or yourself should have done something about it then and there...
 


I agree with LordODiscipline. If it bothered both of you enough that you have to publicly rant, you should have acted like it was a major transgression at the time.




sharainks -> RE: Apalled- A Vent (10/10/2006 3:59:26 AM)

Its hard to tell what was going on with this master.  Maybe he felt that once demo permission was given for the flogger that the permission was still there.

If it wasn't a simple "Excuse me Master so and so but I only permit my slave to participate when there has been permission granted for each thing she is allowed to do"  would have stopped the whole thing.  To me that was in your mistress's court.  It would have made it clear that continuation was not guaranteed. 




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