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fear, pleasure and pain - 10/11/2006 12:16:25 PM   
angharad


Posts: 229
Joined: 10/7/2006
Status: offline 		Hello everyone. 

I am wondering about definitions of masochistic/masochist.  Definitions are by  nature a form of label and I am not looking *to* label but for a whole spectrum of how people express S&M and what feelings are involved.

I have been aware of D/s for a while, and have read as much as I can find, spoken to lots of people.  I can't seem to find as much about S&M.  My submission includes what I believe to be masochism, and the intensity of that can be shattering.

I would very much like to know how other people who consider themselves masochists feel and express this.  I have a terrifying fear of being hurt, yet afterwards a growing fascination with the marks and the memories and the intensity of the experience. It brings me back, despite knowing I will be terrified, truly terrified again.  It seems to be part of what I crave which is a difficult concept in itself.  Does anyone else feel like this?  I feel such a wide variety of emotions from fear to pleasure, delighting in the pleasure of my sadist to the tender aftercare.  And i am tenderly cared for.

Are there any good websites were I could learn more about masochism and practical things like looking after your body?

Does any one feel like this? I am what i am, and that crosses over many *labels* , people are far more complex than one label allows,  but i feel the need to talk to others who may have been this way before me. 

Profile   Post #: 1
RE: fear, pleasure and pain - 10/11/2006 12:21:17 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Reposted:
For me masochism = gaining direct pleasure from what is generally considered to be physically painful

The physical experiences that most people consider "painful" is directly converted into a pleasureable experience.  How or why I have no idea- I wish I did.

Then you have people like me- I love everything about pain play EXCEPT the pain part.  The pain part sucks.  I'm not a masochist- I get no DIRECT pleasure from physically painful experiences.

But I love the marks, the attention, the being passive, the endurance, the submission for THEIR pleasure, the fear, the being used....I love all of those INDIRECTLY.  So for me, it's the gaining of all of those indirect things that make the pain experience worthwhile for me.

Masochists can have those indirect reactions as well, which further confuses things.


http://www.collarchat.com/m_583606/mpage_1/key_masochists/tm.htm#583687
Extreme sensation play, what's hot about that for you?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_204732/mpage_1/key_except%252Cpain/tm.htm#204762
why experience pain and what motivates a sub to enjoy it?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_284469/mpage_1/key_except%252Cpain/tm.htm#284905
masochistic vs non masochistic

http://www.collarchat.com/m_428681/mpage_1/key_except%252Cpain/tm.htm#428697
masochism

http://www.collarchat.com/m_514097/mpage_1/key_except%252Cpain/tm.htm#514099
is it the pain or the act of submission?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_99877/mpage_1/key_masochism/tm.htm#99877
ds vs s&m

http://www.collarchat.com/m_319334/mpage_1/key_masochism/tm.htm#319334
question on masochism #1

http://www.collarchat.com/m_319343/mpage_1/key_masochism/tm.htm#319343
question on masochism #2

http://www.collarchat.com/m_475218/mpage_1/key_masochism/tm.htm#475218
masochism and submission, is there a conflict?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_344784/mpage_1/key_masochist/tm.htm#344784
good pain/bad pain...blurred lines?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_221596/mpage_1/key_masochist/tm.htm#221596
sensation slut

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to angharad)
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RE: fear, pleasure and pain - 10/11/2006 12:33:37 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		I have a masochistic side that I'm still exploring. In the past, it has been purely for spiritual purposes. And, it still is, in a lot of ways. I use it as a gateway for my own spirituality, but, I'm also using it as a way to serve a friend, which is still spiritual for me.

Unless the pain is truly intense, I tend to "go away". I travel...I go to places and/or times and see specific things...or I just float around and see very abstract images. If the pain is intense enough to draw me back, I like the feeling that I know I can endure. There's a catharsis that comes with the pain. It can be like negative things are being washed away or positive things are being drawn in.

I have used yellow, simply because, as a sadist, I know when a repetative strike is being unsafely done (one errant strike here and there is simply an accident). Other than that, I trust him with a part of me that I don't share very often, nor do I share it lightly. That's the part that's making it meaningful for him, because he knows this. So, it's a service for the both of us.

Sexually, I've explored a little with lighter SM. Mixing hard SM and sex...I'm nat actually ready to go there yet...but I will eventually. Some issue there to work on...but damn, I love to be bitten. 

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to angharad)
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RE: fear, pleasure and pain - 10/11/2006 5:48:33 PM   
MichMasochist


Posts: 234
Joined: 12/23/2005
Status: offline 		Well my dear, the way it reads to me is that it's more about the fear and fear of pain.  The realization of facing your fear and defeating it.  Overcoming what scares you? 

What do you think?


(in reply to angharad)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: fear, pleasure and pain - 10/12/2006 1:33:32 AM   
angharad


Posts: 229
Joined: 10/7/2006
Status: offline 		Thank you LA, MasterFireMaam and MichMasochist.  Your words have been helpful. 

I think I was partly worried because like LA i do not get direct pleasure from pain.  Or if i do, it has not penetrated the fear i have.  Saying that i do remember thinking oh, that wasnt so bad, that feels pretty good, so perhaps as i become a little more used to being hurt i will be able to derive pleasure from the pain as well as from his pleasure and the fact i am enduring for him.

I am sub to a sadist, who enjoys the fear and the pain i go through. i can honestly say its not a sensual flogging, beating etc.  It would be nice to have endorphins built up with the level of pain, particularly as it would give me more confidence, but i doubt this will happen.  Yes Mich, i do want to overcome my fear.  I do want to 'achieve' i suppose, for him and myself.  I know i will be so proud and happy afterwards, its that damn before and during bit.  Talk about carrot and stick

Thank you again for taking the time to reply. 

(in reply to MichMasochist)
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RE: fear, pleasure and pain - 10/12/2006 7:11:14 AM   
MasterRobert1


Posts: 225
Joined: 7/18/2005
Status: offline 		You might find this of help, or at least food for thought.

http://www.hotlanta.com/sirreal/bdsmscience.htm

(in reply to angharad)
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RE: fear, pleasure and pain - 10/12/2006 7:22:27 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angharad
It would be nice to have endorphins built up with the level of pain, particularly as it would give me more confidence, but i doubt this will happen. 


LOL all of my past owners had the saying "Warmups are for masochists"

Not being a masochist, warmups didn't apply to me.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to angharad)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: fear, pleasure and pain - 10/12/2006 7:39:44 AM   
hypnoticblue


Posts: 130
Joined: 9/20/2006
Status: offline 		For me, I enjoy seeing what my limits are.  I get so turned on thinking about my butt being whalloped wondering how many strikes before my eyes well.  And yet, I'm still enjoying every second of it.

I also love the after pain.  Knowing that I pleased him.  Knowing that I let him satisfy his desires.  There's something about being vunerable that is another turn on. 

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: fear, pleasure and pain - 10/12/2006 8:09:58 AM   
liljoy


Posts: 577
Joined: 3/25/2004
Status: offline 		oh gosh LA i am so glad you said this! i recently had my most intense pain scene to date. i hated the pain, totally hated it. Remember the primal headspace we talked about awhile back that scared me? i went there for the first time. it still scared me but it was very freeing. Now that i know what it is like and that it doesn't disapoint Him. i'll be able to enjoy it next time. The part i liked best for me though was the quiet place where i could feel the pain but it felt different, like it was far away and it even felt good
lil_joy

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Reposted:
For me masochism = gaining direct pleasure from what is generally considered to be physically painful

The physical experiences that most people consider "painful" is directly converted into a pleasureable experience.  How or why I have no idea- I wish I did.

Then you have people like me- I love everything about pain play EXCEPT the pain part.  The pain part sucks.  I'm not a masochist- I get no DIRECT pleasure from physically painful experiences.

But I love the marks, the attention, the being passive, the endurance, the submission for THEIR pleasure, the fear, the being used....I love all of those INDIRECTLY.  So for me, it's the gaining of all of those indirect things that make the pain experience worthwhile for me.

Masochists can have those indirect reactions as well, which further confuses things.


(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: fear, pleasure and pain - 10/12/2006 10:00:37 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

I would very much like to know how other people who consider themselves masochists feel and express this.  I have a terrifying fear of being hurt, yet afterwards a growing fascination with the marks and the memories and the intensity of the experience. It brings me back, despite knowing I will be terrified, truly terrified again.  It seems to be part of what I crave which is a difficult concept in itself.  Does anyone else feel like this?  I feel such a wide variety of emotions from fear to pleasure, delighting in the pleasure of my sadist to the tender aftercare.  And i am tenderly cared for.


Masochism is an individual experience. I have a fascination with marks also, but I do not fear him putting them there. He is the type of sadist that gets off on seeing how little pain he can inflict to bring about the desired result. In other words he is into mind fucking, and he is very talented at this.

To be honest, there is a dark part of me that wants all the pain that he can inflict, to push his sadism and my masochism... but that is not for me to decide and it is not the motivation for my submission. I have never been terrified, perhaps I should have been, but for some reason I am just not. I think in some ways I am more hardcore than he is, but he satisfies this part of me.

I believe there is a danger for some masochists, including myself, to allow more and more abuse to be rained down upon their bodies in the search for a deep subspace... kinda like a junkie looking for a fix. I am careful with how I approach my masochism, because I have intense desires to be beaten, to "take" pain. My Daddy has told me that he will not make me into a junkie when it comes to pain he inflicts, and if my motivation to be with him was as a life support system for a flogger I would be seriously disappointed. I know that was not what your post was about, but it figures prominently within my own masochism experience, so I mentioned it.

He is totally about the aftercare, and it is a bonding experience unlike any other I have ever had. I feel rather fragile after we are done.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to angharad)
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RE: fear, pleasure and pain - 10/12/2006 10:23:29 AM   
subsa


Posts: 196
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline 		this is a very interesting thread and one that i've been grappling with as a 'newbie'.  i've never considered myself a masochist...to me masochists like pain.  i don't like pain.  i do like the things that we do; spanking, paddling, flogging, clips etc... but to me, those things don't really hurt.  Master says after a brief warm up he's striking me really hard and there maybe some initial discomfort but very rapidly it goes away and it feels very good.  so is that being a masochist?  i don't know..... i'm going to answer your question though...
i, too, am afraid of 'pain'.  if we try something new i'm worried that what ever it is that happens to me won't kick in an it will really hurt.  i'm worried about scening in public for the same reason.  what if it really hurts due to the distractions?  i'm worried to let someone else 'play' me because again i don't know what will happen.  but as far as being afraid of the things we regularly do...no, quite the opposite.  i crave those things. 

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: fear, pleasure and pain - 10/12/2006 10:30:36 AM   
liljoy


Posts: 577
Joined: 3/25/2004
Status: offline 		i don't get much of a warm up or haven't really at this point. He seems to get pleasure from watching me hate it, fear it and go past that. He enjoyes my tears and wants my screams and everything else that comes with it
lil_joy

(in reply to subsa)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: fear, pleasure and pain - 10/12/2006 2:35:03 PM   
angharad


Posts: 229
Joined: 10/7/2006
Status: offline 		what can I say lol, liljoy I'm right with you on that one, my sadist doesnt like warmups, or perhaps when hes in the right mood he might.  He likes the fear and the pain.  I am learning to take pleasure from his pleasure in it.  My own responses are still too untried to know if i will like pain or not.  Sensual sexual pain, of course I like that, but real hurty pain.... I think I may well get addicted.  Seriously I think I could be an endorphin junkie. 

Thank you all for your responses.  I was intrigued with your post juliaoceania.  I know i could take more physically, but man those head fucks!   I have a sneaking suspicion my sadist enjoys both enormously.

Subsa, I also fear what is new.  If I know something is going to hurt and I survived it doesnt seem quite as bad.  I can honestly say I twist and turn desperate to SEE what might be coming my way.  My fear can build so high, and i want to beat that and see what else i might experience.  And to be honest i dont think i've found sub space through pain.  Completely out of it with fear and intensity yes.  No flying feelings, except that of the whip

Master Robert, that is a very interesting link thank you. I will reread it again.

Am very glad all of you have shared thoughts.

(in reply to liljoy)
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RE: fear, pleasure and pain - 10/12/2006 3:18:38 PM   
becca333


Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline 		I'm still trying to convince a certain person the value of warmups.  And like LA and many others, I don't actually enjoy the pain (although a nice fierce stinging is pretty good).  But afterwards there's an amazing high - and the greater the pain, the bigger the rush. 

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RE: fear, pleasure and pain - 10/12/2006 3:42:38 PM   
liljoy


Posts: 577
Joined: 3/25/2004
Status: offline 		maybe He enjoys watching you hate it too?  If that's the case would you really want to try to convince Him that warm ups would be a good thing if it would take pleasure away from Him?
lil_joy

(in reply to becca333)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: fear, pleasure and pain - 10/12/2006 3:50:15 PM   
angharad


Posts: 229
Joined: 10/7/2006
Status: offline 		Perhaps. More as a confidence thing for myself.  I do get very afraid.  I think if i was a little less afraid I would enjoy his pleasure more and find my own, and be able to take more too.  A mix of both would be nice, as we are learning each other.  But it does ultimately depend on him.  He does know what he is doing after all.  And he will get the responses he wants.

(in reply to liljoy)
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RE: fear, pleasure and pain - 10/12/2006 4:19:59 PM   
liljoy


Posts: 577
Joined: 3/25/2004
Status: offline 		i understand i really do. i wish there was something i could say to make it better but those words can only come from Him
lil_joy

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Profile   Post #: 17
RE: fear, pleasure and pain - 10/12/2006 4:34:50 PM   
angharad


Posts: 229
Joined: 10/7/2006
Status: offline 		Thank you very much liljoy.

We have spoken about my fear.  He has the information and I have said what i would like.  What he does with it is up to him.  I am trying to focus on how fantastic it will feel after, to have pleased him so much.  And i'm sure i'll find a way.  It has helped enormously to have read every post on here.

(in reply to liljoy)
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RE: fear, pleasure and pain - 10/12/2006 4:53:45 PM   
beltainefaerie


Posts: 610
Joined: 4/15/2006
Status: offline 		I have heard the term masochist used to describe people that transform pain into pleasure and to those that experience pain "normally", which is to say as PAIN, but love the high it brings.  I have also heard people describe masochists as "sensation" players, because we can't know what these sensations truly feel like to another, I guess saying that one person's pleasure can be another's agony.  It may sting one person and feel like a pleasant warm burning to another.

Personally, I can transform the pain into pleasure, but some kinds of pain are more pleasurable than others.  It can also be effected by my mood.  Sometimes I'm a masochist (and have even been called a pain slut), but other times I'm more in the space that LA described.  Some kinds of pain are delicious for me and other kinds are terrifying, but I enjoy or endure as Master wishes.  I dearly love the sensation of certain tools, like the flogger.  I also love the high that comes after the terror and the pain.  Sometimes it is the implement itself, such as the tawse or paddle that makes me afraid.  Other times it is the look in His eyes as He gets ready to use my beloved cane or flogger, because I know that even though I adore the tool being used lightly to moderately, it can also make me scream.  Hopefully that wasn't too rambly and helped a bit. 

(in reply to angharad)
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RE: fear, pleasure and pain - 10/12/2006 5:19:33 PM   
liljoy


Posts: 577
Joined: 3/25/2004
Status: offline 		can you tell us how you transform the pain into pleasure?

(in reply to beltainefaerie)
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