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Sexual Masochism...A Disorder? - 10/11/2006 12:49:46 PM

Aine

Posts: 820
Joined: 4/12/2005
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I was doing a random search on Masochism on google.

This is a link I came across.

http://www.psychnet-uk.com/dsm_iv/sexual_masochism_disorder.htm

For some reason, while I'm very interested in human nature and wanting to at some point take some classes in psychology, sociology and the like...I was extremely put off upon first skimming the contents of that page.

First off that it is thought of as a Disorder, and also being compared to Mental Retardation among other things.

I'd like to get people's digs on what being a sexual Sadist or Masochist means in regards to this particular idea of it being a Disorder.

_____________________________

Honey, you obviously missed the "want to be used as a toilet fetish" thread or "where do I get instructions on setting my sub on fire" thread. LOL

Thank you, DelRay for that one.

Post #: 1

RE: Sexual Masochism...A Disorder? - 10/11/2006 12:53:23 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aine

I was doing a random search on Masochism on google.

This is a link I came across.

http://www.psychnet-uk.com/dsm_iv/sexual_masochism_disorder.htm

For some reason, while I'm very interested in human nature and wanting to at some point take some classes in psychology, sociology and the like...I was extremely put off upon first skimming the contents of that page.

First off that it is thought of as a Disorder, and also being compared to Mental Retardation among other things.

I'd like to get people's digs on what being a sexual Sadist or Masochist means in regards to this particular idea of it being a Disorder.

My general guideline to determine whether something is a disorder or simply
a hobby is whether the person is capable of functioning in Real Life.

I enjoy doing what I do here, but I do not define myself by nor does it define who I am the rest of the time.

But that is just me and I could be wrong.

Sinergy

_____________________________

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(in reply to Aine)

Post #: 2

RE: Sexual Masochism...A Disorder? - 10/11/2006 12:53:29 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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Anything CAN be a disorder.

What makes something a disorder is whether it seriously interferes with one's day to day functioning (and usually causes a lot of mental/emotional anguish as well).

Most psych people today understand that, like homosexuality, S&M proclivities in themselves are not dysfunctions. But they CAN be and CAN be related to other serious disorders.

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(in reply to Aine)

Post #: 3

RE: Sexual Masochism...A Disorder? - 10/11/2006 1:02:15 PM

Aine

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I understand that pretty much anything at some point can be turned into a disorder. That's understandable, but going on what I've learned about the lifestyle, and what this page stated.....They are blanketing a LOT of what it is to be a sexual masochist.

I guess that's more of what's bothering me.

There are people that are into the BDSM lifestyle that fit:

"Repeatedly for at least 6 months, the patient has intense sexual desires, fantasies or behaviors concerning real acts of being beaten, bound, humiliated or otherwise made to suffer."

But it's not, for them, suffering in the "normal" sense of the word. These people do crave it. But just because someone has these cravings doesn't mean they have a disorder.

When it gets harmful to themselves, and they go about getting these cravings sated in very unsafe and unscrupulous ways, then yes, I would entertain that that person has a problem.

I guess now that I'm getting over the initial shock and anger at what I read, I do understand it, but am still pissed at how blanket the statement is. So any Joe Schmoe reading something like this (who isn't smart enough to think about it a minute) is going to think that everyone (even healthy) is a sick person with a Disorder, much like those that consider us Doomed to go to Hell.

_____________________________

Honey, you obviously missed the "want to be used as a toilet fetish" thread or "where do I get instructions on setting my sub on fire" thread. LOL

Thank you, DelRay for that one.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 4

RE: Sexual Masochism...A Disorder? - 10/11/2006 1:10:02 PM

mnottertail

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well of course thats demented, Aine..............

Note that nowhere in that explication is the seminal clause; 'by mnottertail'.

This would pretty much fruit out folks like that for me.

I think the puritan fucking effect needs alot of re-work. However; that does not mean that the whole shitoree is ausgenommen, it means that you need to become a world famous shrinkage mechanic so that you can disagree with the old untutored legacy head twisters and come up with the right theories and treatments and definitions.

Oh, Gawd what price fame and fortune, Aine........and you are just the kid what can do it, by gum.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Aine)

Post #: 5

RE: Sexual Masochism...A Disorder? - 10/11/2006 1:18:01 PM

justheather

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Well, I'd be interested in knowing if this means I can use it as excuse to call off from work.
"Im sorry, I can't come in today. My sexual masochism is really acting up. I should be able to make it in next week."

I am not really all that surprised or offended by the idea that the Psychological Community still classifies masochism as a disorder. Up until very recent times, homesexuality was considered a disorder.

People who study and practice psychology use a certain kind of model in order to view the human population. In order to make what they do work, they have to be able to fit people into this model. So, following their "model", whatever deviates from what is considered "the norm" and causes a person enough distress that they seek out counsel from a psychologist, is labeled a "disorder". Not so much because it is "abnormal" "sick" or "wrong" but because it causes a person distress and inhibits his or her ability to function in his or her assorted societal roles.

In other words, if I have these thoughts, feelings and ideas and they inhibit my ability to live a well-adapted and healthy life, then I have, according to the model, a disorder which, through treatment (which may or may not be "kink friendly"), I can find a way to either integrate these thoughts and feelings into my life and be at peace (my personal recommendation) or change my thought patterns so that I am not experiencing the troubling thoughts and feelings and therefore feel "ok" (I dont know that this works with kink, but Im not a pro, just my opinion).

Likewise, if Im not upset by them and I don't show any maladaptive behaviors as a result of them, then they aren't a disorder because Ive not sought or been referred for treatment as a result of these traits under the psychologist's model. All is right with the world and Im still my kinky self.

And the article linked to in the OP does state that the requirements for being diagnosed with this disorder include that "This causes clinically important distress or impairs work, social or personal functioning".

So, I guess what Im saying is that it's a shame that the label "disorder" has been slapped onto masochism, but really if you view it in context, it's not such a horrible thing if it's only being used to identify an area in a person's life that is causing dis-ease and dis-order as opposed to being looked at as something that "needs to be fixed" wherever it is found.

If someone is engaging in extremely risky behavior and/or is unable to function in society, I would wonder if there wasnt something going on other than "sexual masochism disorder".

I realize that it is likely that most psychologists do not share my view. Im just presenting my take on why it could be ok for something to be considered a "disorder" in a particular context. Much like Western medical science, the practice of Psychology offers one model for viewing a person's psyche and for treating dis-ease. There are, thankfully, many other models under which the human experience can be explored.

And I know it isnt my line, but I feel compelled to add: Just my opinion. Could be wrong. There ya go.

_____________________________

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When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to Aine)

Post #: 6

RE: Sexual Masochism...A Disorder? - 10/11/2006 1:29:35 PM

jesskitty

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i wouldn't put much stock in it. most psychologist and most classes you'll take will say many things that fall under the BDSM category are disorders of some sort.*shrugs* being a begging psych major i do belive in and like some of it's aspects but other parts of it i think are still needing to be tweaked. it's a very new soft science as they call it, so i'm hoping over the years theyll change that just as they changed homosexuality to not be a disorder in the DSM IV

(in reply to Aine)

Post #: 7

RE: Sexual Masochism...A Disorder? - 10/11/2006 2:15:12 PM

Samwhiplash

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Joined: 10/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: justheather

Well, I'd be interested in knowing if this means I can use it as excuse to call off from work.
"Im sorry, I can't come in today. My sexual masochism is really acting up. I should be able to make it in next week."

:D :D :D :D :D

(in reply to justheather)

Post #: 8

RE: Sexual Masochism...A Disorder? - 10/11/2006 2:20:49 PM

Rover

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Just curious... can a disorder be beaten out of you? Wanna try?

John

(in reply to justheather)

Post #: 9

RE: Sexual Masochism...A Disorder? - 10/11/2006 3:39:16 PM

CrazyC

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Wow, i never heard such a thing. Good just one more thing to add to my crazy list! So i looked into this a little farther, to grasp some better understanding...

i took a sexuality class, and no where in this class were atypical sexual behaviours considered a disorder or a disability. There was a study at one point where the patients that were studied for this behaviour made the doctors say that is was a disorder, but this philosophy was quickly debunked when others realized this pattern. Other then did a study on those who partaked of this behaviour in a non-clinical setting and found that many were still able to function in their daily lives.

The unfortunate thing is that there are still people who believe that old way of thinking in the psychology world, and (like mentioned above) tell others step up and teach the old farts otherwise this will continuelly be handed down generation to generation. My father is old school taught and i don't know how many times we have argued over stuff like this.

(in reply to Samwhiplash)

Post #: 10

RE: Sexual Masochism...A Disorder? - 10/11/2006 4:05:42 PM

juliaoceania

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Part of the problem with the psychological community is its reliance on correlation and behavior. Just because a behavior is correlated does not mean it contributes to something. In other words the psychological models that have been used are to deal with abnormal and maladjusted people. When you concentrate on people that are maladjusted what they do that is out of the norm will be seen to be perhaps related to their dysfunctional life.

For example, some cutters are masochists, therefore all masochists are cutters... see how this logic can be misapplied to one misconception of masochism?

Some people are addicted to the rush that masochism can give them, like gamblers are addicted to gambling, or an alcoholic to booze. I think Sinergy and LA are right, and it is what the psychological community is beginning to say too, unless it interferes with the quality of your life it is not a problem

_____________________________

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(in reply to CrazyC)

Post #: 11

RE: Sexual Masochism...A Disorder? - 10/11/2006 4:11:26 PM

TreSwank

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I don't see anything wrong with the idea that it might actually be a disorder.........................but damn - some psychological idiosyncracies are just too worthwhile to give up. If being maladjusted gets you off, without sending you to jail, more power to ya!!!

< Message edited by TreSwank -- 10/11/2006 4:12:18 PM >

(in reply to Aine)

Post #: 12

RE: Sexual Masochism...A Disorder? - 10/11/2006 4:20:31 PM

subjected2006

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exactly..to call sexual masochism a disorder is a judgement call..
at best..
studies can be altered..manipulated

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a rose is a rose..

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RE: Sexual Masochism...A Disorder? - 10/11/2006 4:21:27 PM

Lordandmaster

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I'm actually surprised that people are surprised. Psychiatrists have considered masochism a disorder since the beginning of psychiatry. Psychiatrists' claim to be able to identify and treat supposed sexual psychopathy was one of the primary reasons why psychiatry became a profession in the first place.

(in reply to Aine)

Post #: 14

RE: Sexual Masochism...A Disorder? - 10/11/2006 4:32:24 PM

Celeste43

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From: NYS
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You omitted the bit at the beginning of the chapter.

"Paraphilias all have in common distressing and repetitive sexual fantasies, urges, or behaviors. These fantasies, urges, or behaviors must occur for a significant period of time and must interfere with either satisfactory sexual relations or everyday functioning if the diagnosis is to be made. There is also a sense of distress within these individuals. In other words, they typically recognize the symptoms as negatively impacting their life but feel as if they are unable to control them."

The important part that makes s & m, or voyeurism, or exhibitionism, or any of the others a disorder is that it interferes with your ability to have satisfying sexual relations or your ability to function in everyday life. Note also the fact that the individuals report this as negatively impacting their life.

Now if you can have a quickie and enjoy it, and don't need to be tied and whipped bloody every time, or you can work at your job without spending all day looking at porn, or you just feel fine - then it isn't a disorder. They're only disorders if they cause problems.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 15

RE: Sexual Masochism...A Disorder? - 10/11/2006 4:36:37 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I'm actually surprised that people are surprised. Psychiatrists have considered masochism a disorder since the beginning of psychiatry. Psychiatrists' claim to be able to identify and treat supposed sexual psychopathy was one of the primary reasons why psychiatry became a profession in the first place.

True, and masturbation in females was considered a symptom of nymphomania and some women had their clitoris removed for this

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 16

RE: Sexual Masochism...A Disorder? - 10/11/2006 4:38:28 PM

Aine

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Joined: 4/12/2005
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I get your points that yes, it CAN be a Disorder once it reaches a certain point, I've already stated that.

But does anyone else but me think that it's a little thin at least on -face value- that specifically Sexual Masochism can be linked to Mental Retardation?

I can see some of the other Disorders....those are a little more believable and almost expected. But Mental Retardation? I'm honestly curious as to what you all think about it.

_____________________________

Honey, you obviously missed the "want to be used as a toilet fetish" thread or "where do I get instructions on setting my sub on fire" thread. LOL

Thank you, DelRay for that one.

(in reply to Celeste43)

Post #: 17

RE: Sexual Masochism...A Disorder? - 10/11/2006 4:38:43 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aine

I was doing a random search on Masochism on google.

This is a link I came across.

http://www.psychnet-uk.com/dsm_iv/sexual_masochism_disorder.htm

For some reason, while I'm very interested in human nature and wanting to at some point take some classes in psychology, sociology and the like...I was extremely put off upon first skimming the contents of that page.

First off that it is thought of as a Disorder, and also being compared to Mental Retardation among other things.

I'd like to get people's digs on what being a sexual Sadist or Masochist means in regards to this particular idea of it being a Disorder.

The disorder has specific criteria that someone must have -- being a sexual masochist or sadist however is not the same as being someone who meets those criteria. Some of the criteria are: harmful to self or others, causing problems affecting daily life, committing criminal acts, and the desire to change or feeling that what you desire is harmful to you.

Note the facture here isn't the activity or the desire but how it affects your life or the life of others.

I prefer to think of it as clinical sadism/masochism as opposed to sexual sadism/masochism. There are psychologists out there working to make the definitions more clear as they did with homosexuality.

So a clinical masochist might be a person who is so consumed with thoughts of pain that he can't hold down a job, puts himself into dangerous situations without risk assessment but only the thought it might be arousing, or who committs crimes with the hope of being punished.

A sexual masochist processes some types of pain as pleasureable but he holds down a job, has a good network of friends/family, only takes reasonable risks, and knows better than to think committing a crime will get him any type of pleasure as a reward.

This is how my psychologist and other's I've met have explained things to me. To put it more briefly: someone with a disorder can't care about others or make good decisions about what they are doing or who they are doing it with/to. That is true for most disorders.

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(in reply to Aine)

Post #: 18

RE: Sexual Masochism...A Disorder? - 10/11/2006 4:41:29 PM

Aine

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Joined: 4/12/2005
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You know what, FORGET that I even posted about it being a damned Disorder. I get it. Forgive me for being young and never having heard of it beforehand. BUT I very quickly came to the same conclusion about the harm part as the rest of you.

_____________________________

Honey, you obviously missed the "want to be used as a toilet fetish" thread or "where do I get instructions on setting my sub on fire" thread. LOL

Thank you, DelRay for that one.

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 19

RE: Sexual Masochism...A Disorder? - 10/11/2006 4:50:19 PM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
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The link to schizophrenia, mental retardation etc is because of the difficulty of diagnosis. If all you see are wounds, you won't know immediately what caused them. It's just a note to the clinician to not jump to conclusions but be very clear as to which disorder is involved since many varied ones can cause the same symptoms. Like coughing could indicate allergies, a cold, bronchitis or lung cancer. There's no causal link involved.

(in reply to Aine)

Post #: 20

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