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Slavery - reality vs fantasy - 10/11/2006 1:15:45 PM   
MistressDraconis


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I received a new question today.  Here it is along with my answer.

"Hello Mistress . . . I believe that to truely understand and live slavery there can never be any return. you can no longer be a person. Just a slave whose owner has total power and control. The owner sets all limits and slave has no say on any issue.

Is this just a fantasy? could this be real?"

This person is a submissive who has never experienced live in slavery.  Well, here is what I believe:  Please understand I have written this as a female Mistress in relation to a male slave - but it can work in many other different roles.

Slavery: reality vs fantasy:

For those that are submissive and have never experienced 24/7 slavery, it can often be a huge fantasy.  Often times, though, their fantasies revolve around the sexual, BDSM basics and they don't take the time to think about the every day reality of serving as a slave.  The reality isn't glamorous.  The reality isn't 8 hours a day of floggers and crops and Mistress walking around in high heels and garters.  The reality is that a slave must work, both in the house to provide financially for his household and he must work in the household, doing chores, seeing to the comfort of his Mistress and the upkeep of Her castle.  The reality is that a slave must make many sacrifices he doesn't have to make when he is a submissive.  His personal wants become void - they mean nothing next to the needs and wants of his Mistress.  He must go through a complete psychological change that moves him mentally away from the self and focuses his entireity onto his Mistress.  For many submissives who are used to serving one mistress for a few hours and still going home and deciding what they want to eat, wear or watch on tv - the sudden realization that they no longer have that option can be devestating.  Or very freeing.  It depends on the individual.  

My household is a poly household.  For many submissives poly is something else that can be hard to grasp.  Many lifestyle Mistresses a poly household are also slaves to a Master.  Although this is something my submissives don't like to hear - I am not only a Mistress, but a slave too.  But this is a reality that many male slaves have trouble enduring.  There is a tendancy to put a Female Dominant on a pedestal, to expect her to be the perfect Dominant Goddess.  I am human, as are all other Dominas.  We cry, we feel, we bleed, (at least once a month for a few days!) and sometimes (thanks to that once a month!!! LOL) we want to lay on the couch in our sweat pants and watch sappy movies all day.  And that doesn't fit into the fantasy.  It is part of the reality. 

But - once you seperate the fantasy from the reality, you come to a place of peace,  perfect, selfless acceptance that is truely the freedom of a slave.  There is no training trick, no intensive session that can be done to force that mind set.  It is a conscious mental shift between the selfish id of the ego and the selfless need to please.  Once you feel that mental shift, and you'll feel it hit like a ton of bricks dropping on your soul, then you'll know that you have entered into a place that has become real - for you.

Mistress D
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RE: Slavery - reality vs fantasy - 10/11/2006 1:23:04 PM   
happypervert


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If you want reality, try reading this:

http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story_id=7953392

After that, the everything you talked about is just fantasy and the notion of consensual slavery is an oxymoron.


_____________________________

"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live." . . . Mark Twain

(in reply to MistressDraconis)
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RE: Slavery - reality vs fantasy - 10/11/2006 1:23:44 PM   
Kalira


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From: Fort Wayne Indiana
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quote:

"Hello Mistress . . . I believe that to truely understand and live slavery there can never be any return. you can no longer be a person. Just a slave whose owner has total power and control. The owner sets all limits and slave has no say on any issue.

Is this just a fantasy? could this be real?"

for some this is nothing but fantasy, but for others, it is VERY real.

I enjoyed your response to it

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to MistressDraconis)
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RE: Slavery - reality vs fantasy - 10/11/2006 1:27:03 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDraconis
The reality is that a slave must make many sacrifices he doesn't have to make when he is a submissive. 

Not necessarily, it depends on the relationship.
quote:


His personal wants become void

Hmm including his wants to please and obey?

quote:

 - they mean nothing next to the needs and wants of his Mistress. 

Most owners don't agree with this whatsoever.  There's no reason a slave can't still take their own pleasures and have their own wants simultaneously to taking on those of their owner.

quote:

 He must go through a complete psychological change that moves him mentally away from the self and focuses his entireity onto his Mistress.  For many submissives who are used to serving one mistress for a few hours and still going home and deciding what they want to eat, wear or watch on tv - the sudden realization that they no longer have that option can be devestating.  Or very freeing.  It depends on the individual.  

What you discuss here is micromanagement- not slavery.  Slavery can be very macromanaged.

quote:

  But this is a reality that many male slaves have trouble enduring.

There's no reason any slave should endure a relationship that does not fulfill them.  There are plenty of non-switch, non-poly owners in the world.

quote:

 But - once you seperate the fantasy from the reality, you come to a place of peace,  perfect, selfless acceptance that is truely the freedom of a slave.  There is no training trick, no intensive session that can be done to force that mind set.  It is a conscious mental shift between the selfish id of the ego and the selfless need to please.  Once you feel that mental shift, and you'll feel it hit like a ton of bricks dropping on your soul, then you'll know that you have entered into a place that has become real - for you.

Mistress D


It's still a selfish need and desire.  It's still fulfilling to the self and I would never be with someone who didn't understand exactly who they were and believed that being with me would be completely fulfilling for THEM.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Slavery - reality vs fantasy - 10/11/2006 1:46:56 PM   
Rover


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Reality is that the only people without inherent limits are those with a mental disorder (that's not a flippant remark, ask a mental health professional). 
 
I have never found a lifestyle definition of "slave" that distinguishes it from "submissive" in any functional manner, and is truly a "definition" (ie: it is universal in its application, or anything even approaching universal). 
 
I'll go further in saying that in my personal experience, the vast majority of those insisting that there is a difference seem to have a motivation implying that they are "better" for being a slave, or owning one (ie: it's a tacit establishment of a "heirarchy" of "better").
 
Anything I say beyond that will ensure that this annoying "moderation" of my posts will continue well into the next decade.
 
John

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RE: Slavery - reality vs fantasy - 10/11/2006 5:27:37 PM   
DivaDuchess


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I've had both sides of the coin ... those that one would swear were born to serve and ... those that weren't.  When I find a subbie or even a Dom or two (which I have, that was interesting), I'll lead them through that as well, until they are able to walk away on their own.  Slavery is just what it says ... slavery.  You are OWNED, you do NOT make decisions for yourself.  Some work, but only if their Owner tells them that they may.  They eat, sleep, watch whatever their OWNER tells them to.

A sub ... has a choice and often only spends a few hours with their 'Master'.  If it's a live in subbie, they are still autonomous, slaves generally aren't.

Both work, but ... both ARE work.




_____________________________

Duchess

Courage is not the absence of Fear,
But rather the judgement that,
Something else is more important than Fear.

The Brave may not live forever,
But the Cautious do not live at all.

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RE: Slavery - reality vs fantasy - 10/11/2006 5:35:52 PM   
Rover


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Seriously, I'm not sure about the type of submissive relationships you're referring to, but I know many submissives who are in TPE relationships with their Dominants (my own relationships are exclusively TPE).  So please tell me, functionally, how slavery differs from submission in such a relationship?  How are they still autonomous?
 
I'm not trying to bait you.  Simply to understand where you're coming from so that I can formulate a logical reply.
 
John

(in reply to DivaDuchess)
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RE: Slavery - reality vs fantasy - 10/11/2006 5:59:16 PM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DivaDuchess

I've had both sides of the coin ... those that one would swear were born to serve and ... those that weren't.  When I find a subbie or even a Dom or two (which I have, that was interesting), I'll lead them through that as well, until they are able to walk away on their own.  Slavery is just what it says ... slavery.  You are OWNED, you do NOT make decisions for yourself.  Some work, but only if their Owner tells them that they may.  They eat, sleep, watch whatever their OWNER tells them to.

A sub ... has a choice and often only spends a few hours with their 'Master'.  If it's a live in subbie, they are still autonomous, slaves generally aren't.

Both work, but ... both ARE work.





Diva, that's very close to what I believe but I do give some leeway.
Of course I think a slave can work or have a career. I think she should have her own friends and hobbies outside the home as well as those things make for a happier more well rounded person.
Those things don't change the fact that she is still a slave.
I like to go out and have fun, movies, dinner, the beach etc and when I find a slave she would of course accompany me for those activities.

(in reply to DivaDuchess)
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RE: Slavery - reality vs fantasy - 10/11/2006 6:17:17 PM   
ExSteelAgain


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I think those kind of measures work for maybe 30 minutes a day. Your statement was the Domme looking through the rose colored glasses and not the ones needed for good vision.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

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RE: Slavery - reality vs fantasy - 10/11/2006 6:41:10 PM   
LadyJulieAnn


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Joined: 6/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDraconis

I received a new question today.  Here it is along with my answer.

"Hello Mistress . . . I believe that to truely understand and live slavery there can never be any return. you can no longer be a person. Just a slave whose owner has total power and control. The owner sets all limits and slave has no say on any issue.



In my opinion, if you choose to "no longer be a person", then you are living an unhealthy reality.

Be well,
Julie

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RE: Slavery - reality vs fantasy - 10/11/2006 6:53:44 PM   
Rover


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Julie, I do allow for the fact that people choose to be "without limits" until they are asked to do something they refuse to do (removing a limb would be obvious), or a "non-person" until it's no longer enjoyable, or without a safeword (until a non-existent limit is passed and they shout "Stop, you mental midget or I'll call the cops"... a very effective safeword)... in other words, they can "be" all those things for short periods of time (call it a "scene" perhaps) until they exercise their freedom and choose to no longer play the game.  That wouldn't imply an unhealthy reality to me.
 
Taking these claims seriously, as if they exist in perpetuity as an ongoing relationship dynamic, is really the silly thing to do.  I know you're not being silly, and I don't want to imply that you are.  But we're often badgered into accepting erotic fiction as reality under the guise of "tolerance".  It's not tolerance, it's a fantasy portrayed as reality.  A more descriptive and accurate term is a "lie" (and the basis for many definitions of "abuse").
 
Unicorns, Santa Claus, and slaves as portrayed in erotic fiction and lifestyle oriented online chatrooms and bulletin boards.  Three things that do not exist beyond the imagination.
 
John

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RE: Slavery - reality vs fantasy - 10/11/2006 7:30:21 PM   
catize


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quote:

Unicorns, Santa Claus, and slaves as portrayed in erotic fiction and lifestyle oriented online chatrooms and bulletin boards.  Three things that do not exist beyond the imagination.   

  No Santa Claus?? 


_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

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RE: Slavery - reality vs fantasy - 10/11/2006 7:33:09 PM   
Rover


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I am sincerely apologetic for having thrown a wet blanket over your Santa Claus fantasy.  Please don't agonize too much, or the sadist in me will enjoy it.
 
John

< Message edited by Rover -- 10/11/2006 7:34:07 PM >

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RE: Slavery - reality vs fantasy - 10/11/2006 7:42:30 PM   
catize


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Well, since a slave's personal wants are void, I have eschewed expecting presents from him anyway.......<grins>

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

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RE: Slavery - reality vs fantasy - 10/11/2006 8:00:24 PM   
MasterC46910


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Does that mean the herd of Unicorns in the back pasture have no value now?

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RE: Slavery - reality vs fantasy - 10/11/2006 8:02:50 PM   
Rover


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I have but one word for you... ebay.
 
John

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RE: Slavery - reality vs fantasy - 10/11/2006 8:06:39 PM   
catize


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterC46910

Does that mean the herd of Unicorns in the back pasture have no value now?

Since they can only be captured by virgins, I wouldn't have a clue........

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

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RE: Slavery - reality vs fantasy - 10/11/2006 8:41:03 PM   
Kirei


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  I find this argument about fantasy and reality always funny.  For instance if I had won the lottery for instance and did not have to worry about money and expenses.  I could build a lifestyle house that to many would seem life pure fantasy.  Yet I would have the means to do it.  Now does that mean its not a real lifestyle house? 
  Fantasy and reality are nothing more than opinions.  Just like how you define a slave from a sub.  A dominant from just a top.  The list can go on and on. 
   The only thing that you should worry about it....is how the two of you interact and does it work for you?  If it works for you it does not matter what people call it fantasy or reality....its just your way and your lifestyle.

Koneko

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RE: Slavery - reality vs fantasy - 10/11/2006 8:59:43 PM   
Rover


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Several months ago I presented to a group in Tennessee on precisely this topic... Fantasy vs. Reality: Separating Fact From Fiction.  We discussed the inevitable claim that "one person's fantasy is another's reality" which makes a neat catch phrase, but is inherently flawed as a logical argument.
 
There are no limits to what can be fantasized, whereas there are limits to what can be realized.  I can imagine what it's like to have a hole in one, something that countless others have realized.  But I can also fantasize about having 18 holes in one in a single round of golf, something that has never been done and is beyond the realities of the physical world.  Our minds are limitless.  Fantasies are limitless.  The real world has plenty of limitations.
 
Fantasy and reality are much more than opinions.  Reality can be proven. 
 
John

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RE: Slavery - reality vs fantasy - 10/12/2006 4:45:51 AM   
twicehappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterC46910

Does that mean the herd of Unicorns in the back pasture have no value now?


Damnit! you are the one hogging the Unicorns!!!
 
Mistress mine(Jewel) and i have been unicorn hunting for months, i even had my own thread entitled twicehappy's unicorn hunt. Where is this pasture?
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

I have but one word for you... ebay.


No they only only have the crappy ceramic or plastic ones there, we are searching for one with a flesh and blood horn so Jewel can enjoy a little......um.....never mind, i do not want to post what she wants the horn for, it might scare the unicorns away.   

< Message edited by twicehappy -- 10/12/2006 4:49:04 AM >


_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

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