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RE: Pleasing a slave - 10/14/2006 4:54:29 AM   
ScooterTrash


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Ok as usual picking this up from another post. Slaves. Should you please a slave?
Should you? Rather simple to answer. I would have to say it is a result, not something you intentionally have to work at. Successful relationships of any kind are mutual...both sides get what they want. If I wanted to NOT please my slave, that I would have to work at.

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RE: Pleasing a slave - 10/14/2006 4:54:32 AM   
darkinshadows


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And your logic of - I am superior and therefore have the right to be as obtuse as possible - is much better?
 
Oh, and I haven't finished playing... yet...
 
Peace and Rapture


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RE: Pleasing a slave - 10/14/2006 6:08:51 AM   
Daddysredhead


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From: Northern (yet still part of the South) Virginia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Should you please a slave?


In my M/s relationship, pleasing my Master is key.  However, He also spends a lot of time making sure that I am cared for and that my needs are met as well.  If it were totally one-sided, I would burn out fast.  If I am constantly giving and getting nothing in return, my "tank" will soon run dry as it not getting replenished.  I find that the more I please Him, the more He takes care of my needs (emotional, physical), and as that happens...  the more I desire to please Him.  It's a wonderful circle. 

The reverse is also true though.  If you give and never receive, you start resenting that you are giving, get fed up eventually, and go elsewhere.

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RE: Pleasing a slave - 10/14/2006 7:44:33 AM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear Dnomyar, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
Pleasing a slave -- Well, in my mind's eye; I do attempt to make an enviorment where everybody is comfortable and are pleased on staying.
 
The Master/Mistress-slave relationship is fluid, it has a life of its own as it is created by the individuals that make up that relationship.  It is an on-going story per se, as there may be something different which challenges all individuals in that relationship.  And, wishing to have a pleasant and stable relationship, it takes communication to keep the relationship flexible, as to draw at needed times by either slave or Master/Mistress the pleasure given in larger doses then the daily routine. 
 
The question to my own Master/Mistress's mind's eye; is how much fun or pleasure am I to be with.  Do I wish to be my own best company and enjoy being with myself first--before another enter's my life.  If I am a rather pleasant individual; others would enjoy being around as well.  The slave may also have this mental conversation, to which mirrors the mind's eye of me--Lady Hugs.  The reason being, the enviorment we create as a Master, Mistress and or slave; must be pleasing at different levels, different times and or different ways.  This is what allows a slave to 'want' to stay; not 'have' to stay.  It is also the strength that is drawn on; when times are rough or sad.
Nobody pleases others and or selves all the time.  Mature adults know this.  Life is unfair and at times, relationships can be unfair--The Master, Mistress-slave dynamic this unfairness is known; to which the slave knows that they will be given the unfair side of life more times then their Master/Mistress.  But, each person entering a relationship seeks to being pleased by it, as a whole--not by sections or lots.
 
Pleasing each other is how relationships grow.  When it becomes difficult to please each other, then pleasure goes within and in time people look to the outside to please what is within.  Pleasure is a thing that requires maintainence.  It just doesn't maintain itself if it relates to a relationship.  People maintain their own internal pleasures but, it is also fed from the outside.  If it isn't fed from the outside, there will be a search for something/someone who will fed, as to add to the pleasure of life itself.
 
When a slave of mine was going through a personal crisis, I supported them and carried them.  It pleased me to be there for my slave in their time of need.  Some may call it being a Servant Master, Healing Master or Guardian Master.  It was my pleasure being at their bedside and the slave pleased me by doing what they must, as to get well.   So, yes--I served my slave in bed, with their food, medicines and the like--But, in my mind's eye--that slave is more than 'property'; that slave is my source of companionship, service and pleasure.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to Dnomyar)
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RE: Pleasing a slave - 10/14/2006 8:58:02 AM   
agirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

I don't buy that if you dont please a slave they will leave you. A slave is a slave for a Masters pleasure not the other way around. Granted a Master has to look out for the slaves well being. But they are not there to kiss the slaves ass.  As for me I have no interest in owning a slave.


Well, you probably should define *well-being*

*Well-being* concerns health and happiness......it's about maintaining a situation where all parties are at their optimum.

It's quite pleasurable to affect someone in a way that causes them to be pleased/happy/cheerful, directly or indirectly. It has sod all to do with *kissing arse*. That's a silly notion altogether.

What do you mean by *pleasing*, exactly?

I'm not a slave for *my Master's pleasure* ........though I hope he finds something enjoyable about owning me ...lol

agirl





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RE: Pleasing a slave - 10/14/2006 9:39:49 AM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Ok as usual picking this up from another post. Slaves. Should you please a slave?


Is that the right question?

Or is it

Should a slave been pleased to be in the relationship?


Your question speaks directly to the Master making direct efforts to please the slave.  But I suggest that one should look a step back and decide should a slave be pleased in the first place.

then the question could become

How should a slave be pleased in their relationship?

and then.. maybe we get to your question in the process of appreciating a Slave being Pleased to be in their relaitonship.


Personally... I think a slave should be pleased to be in their relationship.

Personally... I think there are many ways that a slave can be pleased in a relationship.

Personally.. I think a Master pleasing a slave is just one way that a slave can be pleased in a relationship.

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 10/14/2006 9:42:11 AM >

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RE: Pleasing a slave - 10/14/2006 9:51:39 AM   
agirl


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Status: offline 		Well, overall, that is the crux. If you're not *pleased* to be in the relationship the next question is *why not?* and so on and so forth.

From the other comments made by Dnomyar, he seems to be referring to directly pleasing a slave.....ie.actively doing things to please. I'm not sure why a Master would deny himself the rather natural pleasure of making someone else smile/grin/yelp with delight...etc.

agirl






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RE: Pleasing a slave - 10/14/2006 2:01:27 PM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		im tired and i dun feel well.  I think you all scared off daddysprop and i think thats totally unreasonable in my perspective.  hruuuuuuump

and i think all the argueing back and forth about whether its real is just purely lame.  So what if its unbelievable to you??  Its prolly best as you prolly cant handle it (obviously)  Kind of like Ghosts - those that can handle it - generally believe.  Those that cant will deny until the sun goes down. 

Its real.  I dont like talking too much on the subject.  But i also know people who live that lifestyle.  Caged all day?  No problem.  Non stop chastity?  No problem?  Constantly gagged?  No problem.  No outside connection?  No problem. Granted i dont talk to the girl (or girls as it may be) but only to her Mistress.. its real.  Girls who enter consensual slavery and that is the LAST choice they make.  Hell some enter it and i dont even think they make the choice.  lol  

and because i am a skeptic - i have quietly spoken to others about it.  Other people and other sources, that are not with in my "life" yet that i have met (face to face) - i ask them.  What i found is actually far past what is being spoken here on the boards.  I only go on the truth of the words, deeming them on the person they have come from.  Personally, instead of "disbelieving" something out right, i like to investigate it.  But maybe thats just me

and if its not the truth for others, so be it that you cant get your minds around something that is not apart of main stream society.

lmao  - and if you can get the twist of my last sentence - Good for you!



< Message edited by RiotGirl -- 10/14/2006 2:05:16 PM >

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RE: Pleasing a slave - 10/14/2006 2:26:52 PM   
MagiksSlave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover


Though I do respect what works in your personal relationship, the keeping an individual against their consent is kidnapping.  Using physical force to do so is domestic violence.  I think the general consensus amongst lifestylers, the greater society, and clearly the legal system, is that kidnapping and domestic violence is abusive.
 
I feel fairly certain in stating that as a fact.
 
Once a power exchange relationship ceases to be consensual, it is no different than any run of the mill abusive relationship.  And believe me, I don't use the term "abuse" in the casual context that has become all too common.
 
Interesting, that not long ago lifestyle slaves were said to have two rights/choices... the first to enter into slavery and the other to leave it.  Now you're reducing that by 50 %, and a hair's breadth from equating it with the detestible reality of slavery as practiced in our own history, and that still exists in some places of the world.
 
John


for us, the major difference between slavery as we practice it in the lifestyle, and the legal and illegal slavery of history and modern times, is that within this lifestyle, one can give initial consent to become the property of another person. however, after that point, that slave is no longer a free person with rights and the freedom to do whatever they please...they are property, and their fate is entirely in the hands of their Owner.
as for kiddnapping and domestic violence being acts of abuse....you are correct there. you won't see me disagreeing at all with your definition of abuse. probably the primary difference between our ways would be that we feel a Master has the right to abuse what is his (it's his property after all, he can do what he wants with it), while you clearly do not.



it may be what you beleave but that doesnt change that what you beleave is ellegal. A slave has 2 basic rights the right to submit and the right not to submit to a Master. Ones they deside not to submit they are no longer that Masters slave simple!!

You cant honestly tell me that if your Master/daddy desided that you where never again aloud any food or water knowing very well you would die that you dont beleave you have the right to leave him?? Or that if he told you tomarow he was going to hang you that wouldnt mean you had the right to leave???

Weather it is what you want or not there is no legal slavery and there for a slave is a self apointed term that isnt backed up by laws in fact the oposite, there are laws backing up that a slave does have rights and nothing can take them away not even a slave can sighn away her own life to a Master.

Now we may live as if we are doing all those things but when push comes to shuv and the laws comes in and police find your dead body nothing your Master can say will save him from a murder rap.. and Id really like to see the police mans face when your Master spouts at him "she was my slave my property that I could do with whatever I wanted"

Just the way I see it

Magik's slave

< Message edited by MagiksSlave -- 10/14/2006 2:28:25 PM >

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


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RE: Pleasing a slave - 10/14/2006 2:36:15 PM   
MagiksSlave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

a slave does not have any rights, including the right to leave.


I think you would be surprised how many rights a slave has to leave if they called the cops and stated someone was keeping them somewhere against their wishes. You may not choose to exercise the right to leave, but according to the law that is enforceable, you have that right and anyone that would deprive you of this right could be imprisoned.

Rights have to be backed up with some sort of enforcement or they really have no meat. He cannot keep you against your will, therefore he has no right to keep you but what you have given him...


it amuses and amazes me how many sincerely believe that legal rights always equate to actual rights. there are many (non-lifestyle, nonconsenting) slaves in the world today who all have the legal right to freedom from their imprisonment. the law is 100% on their side. however for most the reality is they cannot "call the cops", they cannot run, and their captors are not going to be imprisoned. for some of us in this lifestyle, that is our reality also. it's not all about what we may "choose" not to do, but what we in actuality simply cannot do.


See now your putting criminals under the same umbrella as the lifestyle... these peoples are criminals nothing more they have nothing to do with the lifestyle at all you are combineing a real tragedy of kids and people beeing kidnaped and forsed into slavery (and yes ones they are found they are freed) with the lifestyle choise of slavery. Ones it is no longer consentual it is no longer BDSM simple as that!! there are 3 guidlines to something beeing defined as part of this lifestyle Safe Sane and Consentual ones it isnt ALL 3 of those things it is no longer under the umbrella of what it is we do! simple isnt it!!!

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to daddysprop247)
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RE: Pleasing a slave - 10/14/2006 2:43:57 PM   
MagiksSlave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

I don't want to be perceived as badgering you, because all I'm really trying to do is engage in an interesting conversation, which sometimes necessitates tugging at little threads in order to reveal the larger issue.  :)
 
Your reply really didn't answer my questions, at least not that I understood them (everyone is well advised to question my comprehension).

Is it your contention that the single choice to slavery condemns him or her to a lifetime of servitude to someone who is criminally insane and abusive?  Or that all a Dominant must do is appear to be something they are not simply to elicit that single commitment?
 
And I'll add a third one here.... do you know anyone that has actually endured under those circumstances for any length of time and remains committed to their service?  Or is this just an exericize in theory without real world application?
 
John


John, my apologies, i was attempting to answer your questions along with all further questions along that line, by making a universal statement. but to answer directly: the single choice to slavery "condemns" one to whatever life their particular Owner creates for them. if that Owner happens to be criminally insane and abusive, then yes, that means a life of servitude to a criminally insane and abusive Master, unless that Master for some reason releases the slave. as for a Dominant appearing to be something they are not in order to elicit the commitment of slavery from a person, well that would be very unfortunate, but if the would-be slave falls for it, that is their lot. again, that's why it's so important that people choose wisely, and do not make these choices/commitments lightly.

as for your third question, i'm not exactly sure what you mean by "under those circumstances". if you mean a situation where a Master may be violent and mentally/emotionally abusive, then yes. if you mean a situation where a Master has taken whatever means necessary to prevent physical escape, then also yes, i know of several slaves who have endured under such circumstances. as for remaining committed to service tho, i'm not exactly sure what you mean by that either. if you mean simply continuing to obey and stay in their place, then yes. if you mean being happy about it to boot, that is something different, but one can still be a good slave without being a happy slave.



Ok im getting rather angrey and should probubly step away from the computer but i really feel the need to sete you straight here because I dont know what ate away at your brain but I do hope its not contageuouse!!!

If you knew a fellow slave was in an illigal beeing held against their will situation it is your legal obligation to get them help if they can not do it for themselvs!!! You can also be prosicuted if it is found out you knew and didnt do anything to help!!
Im sorry but what you are saying is as bad as some of the extreme goreans Iv heard that dont seem to realise we are on earth and you cant treat people exactly as on Gor. Same in this case..

I know I sound harsh but I cant beleave what she is saying

Magik's outraged slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



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RE: Pleasing a slave - 10/14/2006 2:44:16 PM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave
Ones it is no longer consentual it is no longer BDSM simple as that!! there are 3 guidlines to something beeing defined as part of this lifestyle Safe Sane and Consentual ones it isnt ALL 3 of those things it is no longer under the umbrella of what it is we do! simple isnt it!!!

Magik's slave


This maybe your definition of what it means to be in the lifestyle... doesn't mean it is the universal measure.

Many believe that we should not be able to consent to many of the things we do.... hell... Much of SM would be interperted as illegal in most legal jurisdictions. 

frankly... much of what is done is not really safe.. alot of it encompasses risk of some sort that negate "Safe"

lastly... hell... many think we are nuts in doing what we do....  Don't have to go much further than the DSM current and past volumes to show that SM is not seen in a SANE view.


< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 10/14/2006 2:46:20 PM >

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

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RE: Pleasing a slave - 10/14/2006 3:20:29 PM   
MagiksSlave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave
Ones it is no longer consentual it is no longer BDSM simple as that!! there are 3 guidlines to something beeing defined as part of this lifestyle Safe Sane and Consentual ones it isnt ALL 3 of those things it is no longer under the umbrella of what it is we do! simple isnt it!!!

Magik's slave


This maybe your definition of what it means to be in the lifestyle... doesn't mean it is the universal measure.

Many believe that we should not be able to consent to many of the things we do.... hell... Much of SM would be interperted as illegal in most legal jurisdictions. 

frankly... much of what is done is not really safe.. alot of it encompasses risk of some sort that negate "Safe"

lastly... hell... many think we are nuts in doing what we do....  Don't have to go much further than the DSM current and past volumes to show that SM is not seen in a SANE view.



:) I respect what you say as you always shed much wisdom on a situation and I fear that I was writeing a bit too emotionaly charged because what she had to say upset me. The thing is Im not the judgmental sort usualy but because what we do can be dangerouse and get us in trouble I view consent as one of the most importent things.

Please Sir tell me if consent is taken away is it still BDSM... in my mind then its abuse and that is something totaly different!!

Oh and about the DSM LOL I had a fight with my therapist about that the other day!! She isnt kink friendly!!!

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



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RE: Pleasing a slave - 10/14/2006 3:29:04 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Majikslave,

I agree with you about being disturbed by some of what I have read on this thread, and since it seems we were disturbed by the same things I will not rehash that. I was so troubled by this I spoke with my Daddy about it, and while we disagreed a little about our interpretations of what has been said here, in the end I began to look at the whole matter differently

Daddysprop has a certain reality that she perceives the way she perceives it.. I should not challenge her perceptions of her dynamic. She is happy and consenting from everything I can see, but to her the idea that it is consensual takes something away from her servitude. I do not know whether it is worth debating if her view of her reality is "true or not true" (god I hate that word now), but the nature of her dynamic seems to hinge on her view of her reality and the truth of it.

If I hear of anyone kept nonconsensually in a relationship they have no desire to be in I am dialing 9-1-1 to let them deal with it.... I am not going to accept her "reality" as being ok if confronted in the real world with people kept in cages and not allowed to leave and padlocked into a house... I am going to take action if I see this and no someone is being held against their will... but it really is not important to challenge the veracity of daddysprop's dynamic to know what I would do if confronted with nonsconsensual slavery. I believe her to be in a consensual relationship, she believes herself not to be, it does not matter.. she has said she does not want to leave.

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RE: Pleasing a slave - 10/14/2006 3:30:07 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		Sometimes slaves/submissives get a thrill outa not having their Dominant/Master think about pleasing them..thats what actually pleases them (standing on my head looking at the world upside down as I said that).

I know for myself, it was hard to get around the idea that Master wanted to please me..it took some time to relax into that..but looking at it over time and from the big picture it was those qualities that actually built the foundations of a long term relationship...and now when he does demand something of me with no regard to what I want or whatever...the intensity I feel is awesome. (hope that makes sense).

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RE: Pleasing a slave - 10/14/2006 3:35:19 PM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

Please Sir tell me if consent is taken away is it still BDSM... in my mind then its abuse and that is something totaly different!!

Oh and about the DSM LOL I had a fight with my therapist about that the other day!! She isnt kink friendly!!!

Magik's slave


It's a question of ones on personal morality and principles.  I for one think that Consent is a critical fundamental block with the confines of BDSM.  I do agree that without consent that I would consider that abuse is a possibility.  However, this is based on my own moral principles and not on some catching phrase as SSC.

I think that really your morality in this regard is not so much different than me, on the surface at least.  But then we get into the question of what can wee consent to?  What we require to beable to consent? etc.  It is likely where many opinions will start to diverge from one another.  However, I believe holding on to what unites people (shared morality for example) and respecting what differentiates us from one another (personal pleasures for example) will make this much more civil in the long run.

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RE: Pleasing a slave - 10/14/2006 3:48:46 PM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
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Status: offline 		Julia.. Thank you for shareing that it really did help my own emotional state

KOM Sir you are right, my own head just cant wrap around some stuff and I get I dont know scared or something because no matter how much I want to I just dont understand.

thanks for the insite

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to KnightofMists)
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RE: Pleasing a slave - 10/14/2006 3:51:18 PM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

.....that we feel a Master has the right to abuse what is his (it's his property after all, he can do what he wants with it), while you clearly do not.


and this is the crux of the difference.  I place my moral principle with regards to a human right to a healthy Well-being beyond the rights of the Master.  Clearly you state that the Well-being of one who is slave would be be less than the Master's rights!

You have your morality... I have mine.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Pleasing a slave - 10/14/2006 4:05:12 PM   
Kalira


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

I don't buy that if you dont please a slave they will leave you. A slave is a slave for a Masters pleasure not the other way around. Granted a Master has to look out for the slaves well being. But they are not there to kiss the slaves ass.  As for me I have no interest in owning a slave.

I have pretty much stayed away from this thread and the wreck that it looked like it was becoming, but I did want to comment on this a bit.

Any girl or boy, whether they be submissive or slave, will look for a partner that WILL fulfill their own needs, wants, desires, wishes, and pleasures. They find that person, they form a relationship with them, both agree to it, both adhere to it...bingo....BOTH are being pleased.

By adhering to what was agreed upon before the relationship became one of ownership, a Master is going out of his way to see to it that his slave is pleased.

Just a different take on it is all.
quote:

  If a Dominant does not or is not supposed to care about pleasing the slave, why do slave profiles allow them to select areas of interest and skill levels, why bother searching for a particular type of sub or slave, why not just pick one and get to it, and why do Dominants almost always ask what a slave is trained in and enjoys in the lifestyle when interviewing them?


Pretty much what I just stated.


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RE: Pleasing a slave - 10/14/2006 4:06:09 PM   
Rover


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Status: offline 		Knight, I would not necessarily disagree with you, but to get to this point you have to accept that what we have been told is factual.  And I clearly do not.  There are too many statements that defy logic in order for it to be factual.
 
There is a studied and documented predisposition for people to accept as factual what they read on the internet, yet would not believe it if told to them face to face.  And, of course, everyone must bend over backward to pay homage to the "tolerance god". 
 
I would be the first to validate the factual existence of micromanagement and TPE (slave, if you prefer) relationships (as if they needed my validation) as described to us.  I know of them and I've seen them for myself.  But that's not the issue.  It's the rest of the story (to borrow a line from Paul Harvey) that simply cannot be factual.  And it is that rest of the story that has (nearly) everyone scratching their heads.
 
John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to KnightofMists)
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