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Married male submissives - 1/24/2005 9:03:24 PM   
ProtagonistLily


Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline 		Hi everyone,

I don't know how anyone else feels about this, but I'm getting pretty tired of getting mail from men who are married vanilla, but are really 'submissives' needing a 'Mistress'. I'm just plain tired of it. I have had to go so far as to indicate, on my profile, that I am not interested in a married submissive due to a conversation I engaged in with a married sub. Apparently I am not allowed to be friendly with these men because I am not willing to play with them. Go figure.

I don't know if I'm looking for answers as much as I'm looking to vent. I've been to munches and seen "Married Man's Tan", where they take the wedding ring off and think that no one notices the lighter band around his finger where the ring was, so it's not isolated to On-Line. What I want to know is how a man can tell me he's loyal and obedient when he's attempting to fuck around on his wife? What makes me so special and his wife so insignificant that he's willing to jeopardize his marriage vows because he chose vanilla over his "true self" (mind you, I'm quoting these guys, not myself).

Not only is it frustrating and sad, I find it very insulting. As a Dominant woman, I regard my sisters, Kinky or Vanilla, with much respect. How could I not? To agree to allow a married man to submit to me in my eyes, is disrespectful to all women, not just the wife.

Maybe I'm just tired of feeling like a piece of meat in general. Maybe I'm just frustrated by the amount of insincere mail I get from men who don't seem to understand the fundementals of power exchange at all. I don't know...

But suffice it to say, the Married guys gall me to no end...

Lily

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~
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RE: Married male submissives - 1/24/2005 9:21:57 PM   
SwitchNCgal


Posts: 79
Joined: 11/16/2004
Status: offline 		wonder how many men have cheated on thier wives and actually stay with them? I'll suspect it is because the wife never finds out, is very religious to the point where she won't leave him no matter what, or she feels that she has not recourse but to stay in a marriage of convience.

of those women that stay i wonder how many of them start having their own fun behind their flandering husbands backs becoming that which they mostlikely yelled at the man for doing?

Men for the most part just get on my nerves (having lived as one and being upset to the point where I decided to not have friends for years (decided that i could socialize at scouts and the like but wouldn't invite them home or hang out)). Even now I can't tolerate their lousy attitudes towards women, although I'm finding that some aren't all that way and actually have some respect for women but at times it is hard to tell.

and i agree if they can't keep life vows why should We (all women that are Mistresses or Switches) allow such philandering scum serve us?

_____________________________

A switch gal that needs a little special help now and then and is stuck in the southeast.

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)
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RE: Married male submissives - 1/24/2005 9:42:58 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline 		There are opinions from both sides of the fence in the following threads:

married subs

married men

married, married



_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to ProtagonistLily)
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RE: Married male submissives - 1/24/2005 10:03:44 PM   
ProtagonistLily


Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

There are opinions from both sides of the fence in the following threads:

married subs

married men

married, married


Funny, I can't possibly be interested in how the boys want to rationalize this one. I'm really tired of the rationalization lately.

However, thanks for generously making those threads available, I do appreciate it.

Lily

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to proudsub)
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RE: Married male submissives - 1/24/2005 10:35:20 PM   
LdyAuburn


Posts: 179
Joined: 5/9/2004
Status: offline 		do you mean married who do it behind their partner's back? Or do you mean just married?

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)
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RE: Married male submissives - 1/24/2005 11:24:31 PM   
MadameDahlia


Posts: 2021
Joined: 8/11/2004
From: SoCal aka Hell
Status: offline 		I liken the wedding band to a collar. When subbie devotes him/herself to me, I expect him/her to STAY devoted. If things get rocky, I want to know. I want to talk. I want to resolve.

And I doubt a wife would want a cheating, good for nothing brat, sneaking off to visit a ProDomme or engage in talks with another Woman while bearing her ring.

If they married out of love and things are in a downward spiral, I would rather have them open up and talk to their significant other (S/O). Maybe they can work things out.

For those who still love and want to submit to their S/O, I think they should try to draw out the Dom within. Take up all of the S/O's chores. Wash the laundry. Iron the clothes. Hang the clothes up. Feed the pets. Feed the kids. Bathe the kids. Get them ready for school. Water/mow the lawn. Cook the meals. Clean the house.

Pamper and/or gently seduce the S/O. Run the bath. Get the warm towels out for the S/O so that they can snuggle up in a warm towel after leaving the bath. Offer a foot/shoulder/full body massage. Take a massage class to massage properly. Buy the S/O small "I'm thinking about YOU" gifts. (Do NOT think about yourself and get your S/O a riding crop, a cat-o-nines and a gift certificate to Bondage-R-Us!)

Focus on the sexual pleasures of the S/O via oral (if applicable). However if the S/O doesn't want it... STAY OFF! Cuddle the S/O.

Tell the S/O "I love you. I adore you. You're terribly sexy!" And gradually introduce the idea of, "When you wear that so-and-such, I feel out of control and I just want to make you happy!" Don't emphasize a sexual feeling. Don't scare them off! And don't get right into the Domination aspect. Don't tell them, "My god, when you wear that so-and-such I feel like a worthless worm, lower than dirt and I would do anything to worship at your perfect feet!" They probably WON'T understand... and you may wind up blowing your chances.

Don’t make it about you. Serving is selfless. Those who serve do so because they need to psychologically. Don’t focus on your whims, your desires. If you are serving out of some sort of kink or fetish, then you aren’t Lifestyle material. Serving your God/dess should be all about THEM! And in return you'll be getting what you need out of the relationship. You'll know that you're the one who put that ear-to-ear grin on your S/O's face. You'll be able to submit to the Dominant you love!

Treat your S/O as though you are a young teenager, trying to win your S/O's affections. Read a romance novel and find out (as cheesy as it sounds) what sort of things bring a smile to the character's faces. Know your S/O!! Don't pour your S/O a white wine and sprinkle the bed with rose petals if your S/O doesn't drink alcohol and is allergic to roses! Use common sense and a touch of romance.

Give this time!! A perfect Dominant does not fall into one's lap over night. Be patient. Grow a loving, knowing Dominant and you'll be set in your submissive desires and delights for life.

But.... if all else fails... BE HONEST! Ask your S/O (after determining that your S/O simply has no interest in becoming your One) whether or not your S/O would allow you to serve another. Try to describe to them what your submission means. Tell them what sort of feelings submitting brings you. Tell them that it isn't about sex, so much as giving someone power and through that trade of power, pleasure. Reassure them that seeing a Domme is not seeing a prostitute. Assure them that you love them, despite not being able to submit to them. Tell them that you will still gladly keep up with your chores, if it is convenient and beneficial to your S/O. Let them ask questions. Answer them all honestly... you may wind up being surprised.

If your S/O agrees to allow you to see a Domme for your needs, give your S/O the chance to pick from a list of your interests. Have your S/O set your limits so that they are comfortable with everything you are doing with another person.

Personally, I consider a married submissive "on loan" from his/her spouse/Dominant. I follow limits set by subbie's spouse.

I do eventually plan to become both Lifestyle AND ProDominant. I'm working on creating a website business as well as building my own dungeon with a few friends (now partners in kink). When that happens I will step out of the Lifestyle mentality - no longer forming deep bonds or emotional attachments to the people who come to vent their submissive desires and then return to a vanilla world. It would never be about sex or intimate contact. It would not be about a melding of the minds. It would be as cut and dried as going through the drive through and purchasing a cheeseburger or taco because you don't feel like cooking it yourself - nothing but business.

_____________________________

Insanity -- a perfectly rational adjustment to an insane world.
--R. D. Laing

"Oh, but if I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away."

(in reply to LdyAuburn)
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RE: Married male submissives - 1/24/2005 11:38:50 PM   
Mariposa


Posts: 37
Joined: 9/28/2004
Status: offline 		An interesting thing I have noticed is that people always fail to recognize that people in a vanilla marriage can, indeed, be poly. Sometimes you just want the state to give you an in to your (long-time) partner's health insurance. Though I somehow doubt that the men you've been talking to have been honest with their partners.

(in reply to LdyAuburn)
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RE: Married male submissives - 1/24/2005 11:49:17 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ProtagonistLily
Hi everyone,

I don't know how anyone else feels about this, but I'm getting pretty tired of getting mail from men who are married vanilla, but are really 'submissives' needing a 'Mistress'.
What I want to know is how a man can tell me he's loyal and obedient when he's attempting to fuck around on his wife? What makes me so special and his wife so insignificant that he's willing to jeopardize his marriage vows because he chose vanilla over his "true self" (mind you, I'm quoting these guys, not myself).

Not only is it frustrating and sad, I find it very insulting. As a Dominant woman, I regard my sisters, Kinky or Vanilla, with much respect. How could I not? To agree to allow a married man to submit to me in my eyes, is disrespectful to all women, not just the wife.
But suffice it to say, the Married guys gall me to no end...
Lily


Hey Lily,
I thought it was happening a lot to me because I'm new, and they figure they (sub men/bottoms) can put one over on me, while I get my practice...

I've thought about this a lot, and feel as you do, that if someone already has a contract with another (by way of marriage), he cannot be with me, so I would rather pay a Top/Dominant to teach me the things I want to learn, than disrespect a wife (especially one who doesn't know about her husband's kink).
I've chat with perfectly nice men, but cannot bring myself to meet them if they are married, because I would think it's cheating if my husband did it, and, I associate these sensations to my sexuality/emotions, cannot divorce one from the other, and don't want to.

On the other hand, to argue the "never say never route", if I were to consider playing with married/unavailable men, it would have to be "the Pro route", without sex(with me at least, lol) and for pay." M

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)
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RE: Married male submissives - 1/25/2005 4:44:53 AM   
MizSuz


Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		For the sake of Devil's advocate:

Some wives don't want to know. I know this because I've met them. Some wives find that the more their husbands go outside the marriage the less demands are made on them and they prefer it that way.

Some wives do know and don't want to be a part of it.

I'll grant you that is not always the case, but it is the case more often than you would think.

No, I don't take married subs without the wife's permission unless it's as a professional relationship. Nor do I engage in sex with married subs.

There's no reason the man can't change the oil in my truck, though.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)
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RE: Married male submissives - 1/25/2005 6:51:32 AM   
ProtagonistLily


Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

do you mean married who do it behind their partner's back? Or do you mean just married?


I mean married and cheating. I do realize that there are married men who have negotiatied with their wives to engage in BDSM outside the home.

You learn quickly how willing the wife is when you say you'll think about this, but first you'd like to talk to their wives ~wink~

Lily

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to LdyAuburn)
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RE: Married male submissives - 1/25/2005 6:55:17 AM   
ProtagonistLily


Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

There's no reason the man can't change the oil in my truck, though


Alas, Suz, I have yet to have an offer for any kind of service. I'm basically getting the "I NEED TO BE CONTROLLED" mail. How nice for them to think that any Fem Domme will do in a storm.

Really, my theory is that they are cheap bastards who don't want to pay a Pro. Too bad.

L

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to MizSuz)
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RE: Married male submissives - 1/25/2005 7:09:34 AM   
Dave8544


Posts: 49
Joined: 7/23/2004
Status: offline 		Sorry to say it's not just men but women also, I think a person cheats because they can't get what they want at home! And also I feel it's the embarresment issue, pretty hard to say to a vanilla wife would you go by a strap on and do me? let me where your panties? I don't think so, she might be on the train back home to momma. So because of the internet people are finding these things and the kind of people that enjoy doing them and hope they can connect. or at least talk about it. But I could be wrong, it's happened before. Dave

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)
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RE: Married male submissives - 1/25/2005 7:37:38 AM   
onceburned


Posts: 2117
Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Iowa
Status: offline
quote:

Really, my theory is that they are cheap bastards who don't want to pay a Pro. Too bad.


This could very well be true. Perhaps it is also possible that they are wrapped up in fantasy thinking... "If I want and enjoy this, the other person must enjoy and want it, too". So perhaps they are cheap, and clueless as well.

Or just clueless. And scared, maybe, at confronting long suppressed desires.

But I agree with you totally that a married man should not be soliciting Dommes without his wife's knowledge and involvement. To do so is cowardly, dishonest and just plain sleazy.

< Message edited by onceburned -- 1/25/2005 7:38:06 AM >

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RE: Married male submissives - 1/25/2005 12:42:43 PM   
Shayna


Posts: 205
Joined: 1/16/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Or just clueless. And scared, maybe, at confronting long suppressed desires.


I have a male friend who is submissive. He left a sexless marriage last summer and has started to explore his kinks, but recently he has gotten seriously involved with a very vanilla woman. I don't get that...it looks like he's headed back into the closet again. I think this is the type of guy who goes searching while married...internet or otherwise.



(in reply to onceburned)
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RE: Married male submissives - 1/25/2005 3:08:24 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz

Some wives do know and don't want to be a part of it.

No, I don't take married subs without the wife's permission unless it's as a professional relationship. Nor do I engage in sex with married subs.

There's no reason the man can't change the oil in my truck, though.


I think that is perfectly okay, when all the players are aware, and are consenting.
Most of the folks that aproach me though, are not looking to do for me if there's "nothing" in it for them (yah know, the service, for its own sake)?... I wouldn't mind having boys I can call on to wash my car/change the oil, plow the snow, lol... For now, I guess my brothers will do. M

(in reply to MizSuz)
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RE: Married male submissives - 1/25/2005 3:51:08 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		I am a P/T Pro, and find most of My clients to be married. Since I have a strict no sex policy, if they are willing to pay, I am willing to session, provided O/our interests match and they understand I am in control. If they are just wanting freebie Domination and kinky sex, I can't be bothered. They will hit the road real fast, as soon as I make My policies clear.

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


(in reply to ProtagonistLily)
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RE: Married male submissives - 1/26/2005 5:55:01 AM   
submise


Posts: 20
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline 		People change over time. Nobody knows where the road of life will lead you. When I got married almost ten years ago, I didn't know I was submissive. I wasn't in the BDSM world and knew little about it. I had no interest in it. Alot can happen in ones life psychologically. I now consider myself a true full fledged submissive. I've accepted this and I am proud of this. My spouse has no knowledge or interest in this lifestyle whatsoever. So, I guess I supposed to keep it all bottled up inside? I guess i'm supposed to be a closet submissive for the rest of my life? Yes, I agree it is cheating if I start worshipping a domme outside of my marriage. But I don't want to throw away 10 years of marriage. That doesn't make sense. I still love my spouse more than anything. Yes it is wrong to have a Mistress outside of marriage but we are all sinners. And yes, men are dogs. But I only have one life to live. Can't I have my cake and eat it too?

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RE: Married male submissives - 1/26/2005 7:24:00 AM   
onceburned


Posts: 2117
Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Iowa
Status: offline
quote:

Can't I have my cake and eat it too?


Well, for this specific question the answer is no. If you eat your cake, you no longer have it.

But I understand your quandry of being in a vanilla marriage and yet feeling a need to submit. I've been there, done that.

The advice that others have given is very good. How you can apply it to the specific situation of your life, of course, will have to be worked out by you. But honesty and patience should be guiding principles... both in dealing with your wife and with dealing with a potential domme.

Go slow, don't betray anyone, and keep their feelings in mind. I won't repeat the advice that others have mentioned, but remember (how ever hard it may be) don't let your thinking be done by your 'little head'. If necessary make sure you have had sexual release before you discuss a difficult topic... this might help prevent rushing or pressing an issue more quickly then your wife can deal with it.

(in reply to submise)
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RE: Married male submissives - 1/26/2005 7:49:48 AM   
ProtagonistLily


Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

People change over time. Nobody knows where the road of life will lead you. When I got married almost ten years ago, I didn't know I was submissive. I wasn't in the BDSM world and knew little about it. I had no interest in it. Alot can happen in ones life psychologically. I now consider myself a true full fledged submissive. I've accepted this and I am proud of this. My spouse has no knowledge or interest in this lifestyle whatsoever. So, I guess I supposed to keep it all bottled up inside? I guess i'm supposed to be a closet submissive for the rest of my life?


Awwww...poor you. How life has dealt you this heavy burden...You don't want to throw away a 10 year marriage? Then don't. Do you think for one second that those of us practicing the lifestyle don't make sacrifices? Do you think that every Fem Domme is a hedonistic pervert just waiting for you to kneel at her feet because YOU have some need?


quote:

Yes, I agree it is cheating if I start worshipping a domme outside of my marriage. But I don't want to throw away 10 years of marriage. That doesn't make sense. I still love my spouse more than anything.


But apparently not enough to be a stand up guy, accept that you have a part of you that you either can't or won't share with the love of your life and move on. If you love your wife more than anything, then you'll worship her. Bring her flowers, clean the bathroom, rub her feet and take her to a movie. Is there a credible reason why you can't do the things you would do with a Domme for her? So what if it's not your normal routine to worship her. She's put up with you for 10 years, and I have a pretty good inkling that she's deserving of some serious worship.

quote:

Yes it is wrong to have a Mistress outside of marriage but we are all sinners.


Sin is as sin does. And your lame attempt to catagorize everyone as a 'sinner' is weak at best. You assume that BDSM and sin are synonomous. I'm a practicing Catholic and I have never, in 7 years, felt I needed to confess anything that I have done in the name of BDSM. Not because I thought I'd freak my priest out; because I never treated BDSM as a place in which it was ok for me to leave my morals and values at the door.

quote:

And yes, men are dogs. But I only have one life to live. Can't I have my cake and eat it too?


Again with the generalizations. I have in my life, extreamly fine men. I find it insulting that you would put them in this canine catagory. They are good husbands, good fathers, and good friends, and certainly not dogs. If you feel like a dog, well, that's your problem, deal with it. But don't co-opt your entire gender into some guilt ridden pool because you can't have it both ways.

Well, I suppose you can have your cake and eat it too. But eventually, that cake eats you as much as you eat it.

Lily

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to submise)
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RE: Married male submissives - 1/26/2005 8:41:56 AM   
MsCameron


Posts: 238
Joined: 10/14/2004
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline 		Cheers Lily :) You were one step ahead of me.

Why is it people try to justify deception?

I left a vanilla marriage to pursue this lifestyle. I knew I would never be happy until I did. But the biggest point was I have to look at myself in the mirror every day and I'd better be happy with what I see.

If I am to live my life with honour and respect, well, it starts with me.

I also would never want to do to someone else what I would not want done to me.

submise.. I would suggest you try the shoe on the other foot. How would you feel if your wife pursued a relationship outside of the marriage without your knowledge? How would you feel if it was YOU that was being lied to?

MsC

< Message edited by MsCameron -- 1/26/2005 9:08:32 AM >

_____________________________

I'm reaching for the random or what ever will bewilder me.
And following our will and wind we may just go where no one's been.
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.
Spiral out. Keep going, going...
Lateralis.Tool

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)
Profile   Post #: 20
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