If it comes to a shooting war..with China

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sissifytoserve -> If it comes to a shooting war..with China (10/16/2006 3:04:04 PM)
If it comes to a shooting war..with China this is...BONE....CHILLING To say the LEAST. http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/HD20Ad03.html

CrappyDom -> RE: If it comes to a shooting war..with China (10/16/2006 3:18:32 PM)
Very scary if you don't know much but it is a highly unlikely scenario if you did. China doesn't want to destroy Taiwan, they want to steal it, if they destroy it, there is no value. China's anti-ship defenses are impressive. Lets step back and look at Syria's state of the art anti-aircraft defenses located on ideal terrain. Israel knocked them out using aircraft! IF we attacked first, we would take out many of those batteries with stealth bombers and RPV using maverick missles, cruise missles launched from close in shore locations from SSBNs. As for "blinding" carries, look at how well the British did with obsolute tiny carriers operating nearly blind (they don't have Hawkeys), if you think that several, let alone 15 carrier battle groups couldn't clean China's collective clock, you need to get out more. Same goes for currency, it IS a problem but it is a political, not military problem. If China used it militarily, the US public would back the president, not whine and bitch, just like we ALL did after 9/11. It would hurt, it would cause problems but because they used it like a weapon, it wouldn't cause the polical fallout that it would otherwise. And anyone who thinks Russia would side with China easily, hasn't been paying attention. They enjoy playing against us but Russia doesn't want to face China alone right now and while I could see them sitting it out I cannot see them stepping up and actually attacking us. Besides, we could take out much of China's ballistic missle threat, especially if we knew ahead of time we were going to war and we could pulverize them in return. China IS a threat and I am for underminign them where we can but this article is drama filled fluff. However, I do agree with how the article closes that the world WANTS US to lead but they want to agree with where we are going!

KenDckey -> RE: If it comes to a shooting war..with China (10/16/2006 4:02:27 PM)
I believe that the largest problem with a shooting war with China would be sheer numbers. I think we have better equipment and technology, but so did the Germans during World War II - Numbers defeated them. I think that we have more nukes but I don't think they will really come into play. I don't think that the US would use them except as a last resort and only at a minimum then. Mostly tactical nukes as opposed to strategic. But when it comes to boots on the ground, I think the Chinese have it all over us. If a force of any size hit our shores, I don't believe we have enough boots on the ground to repel them. Then, we would have to defend ourselves until we could train and equip an army large enough to defeat the chinese. Major problem in my opinion.

MasterKalif -> RE: If it comes to a shooting war..with China (10/16/2006 5:10:50 PM)
CrappyDom, very well put statement.

FangsNfeet -> RE: If it comes to a shooting war..with China (10/16/2006 6:48:28 PM)
We have to much shit made in China to see it get blown up. However, I can already see a few jobless people licking there chops for the opportunity to start manufactoring in the US again.

Lordandmaster -> RE: If it comes to a shooting war..with China (10/16/2006 6:58:42 PM)
Why does everyone keep worrying about war with China? We're not going to war with China.

CrappyDom -> RE: If it comes to a shooting war..with China (10/16/2006 7:00:17 PM)
Bush invaded Iraq as a counter to China.

WyrdRich -> RE: If it comes to a shooting war..with China (10/16/2006 7:18:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet We have to much shit made in China to see it get blown up. However, I can already see a few jobless people licking there chops for the opportunity to start manufactoring in the US again. Why doesn't anyone ever point out that manufacturing jobs SUCK? Wages were high because that was the only way to get people to do such a shitty job. Repetetive motion, work at the pace of the machine, stuck in one spot all day so random assholes with mustard on their bad tie can wander over and flip you shit.

popeye1250 -> RE: If it comes to a shooting war..with China (10/16/2006 7:38:38 PM)
As a U.S.Taxpayer, Voter, Veteran I don't want to be "the world's" leader, policeman, rescue service, banker,...fill in the blank.

Termyn8or -> RE: If it comes to a shooting war..with China (10/16/2006 7:41:48 PM)
China ? When their economy burgeons, like it is, they can afford to buy weapons. If their goverment is occupied by the same kind of people who occupy ours, we could have a very big problem on our hands. Nobody even mentions Japan, they have had an enormous trade suplus for alot longer. The main problem is we hardly make anything anymore, we buy it with borrowed money. If China switches to Euros and stops holding the note for US debt, well you know what happens. They will print more money, making savings useless in the US. If you wonder why people are reluctant to put alot of money in banks here, wonder no more. Money is the worst thing to have in this country. It will get so bad that even real estate will drop like a rock because nobody will be able to afford it. Even now they are damnear giving away new cars, getting people on disability and welfare to buy houses, with assistance of course. As it gets worse, more and more of us will be homeless, while the government will pander to public assistance recipients to get their vote. That's their job, to vote. Most of them will vote for whoever promises them the most money. Eventually they will be cut off too, and that's when the shit hits the fan. I hope by then we can give them alot more to worry about. T

sissifytoserve -> RE: If it comes to a shooting war..with China (10/16/2006 9:26:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or China ? When their economy burgeons, like it is, they can afford to buy weapons. If their goverment is occupied by the same kind of people who occupy ours, we could have a very big problem on our hands. I think most people DOWNPLAY the threat they pose. They are STILL a communist country with a HORRIBLE human rights record. From what ive read they certainly are building a vast military machine. I don't think they want to play 2nd fiddle much longer.

Lordandmaster -> RE: If it comes to a shooting war..with China (10/16/2006 9:34:28 PM)
All right, question for all the "China is a huge threat" people: What EXACTLY does China want to do that will annihilate us?

UtopianRanger -> RE: If it comes to a shooting war..with China (10/16/2006 9:43:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 As a U.S.Taxpayer, Voter, Veteran I don't want to be "the world's" leader, policeman, rescue service, banker,...fill in the blank. Like Steven A. Smith said on his show ''Quite Frankly'' the other day - ''Who cares about being a role model these days'' lol - R

meatcleaver -> RE: If it comes to a shooting war..with China (10/16/2006 11:57:28 PM)
Could someone please explain to me, why China would want to kill the goose the laid the golden egg?

CrappyDom -> RE: If it comes to a shooting war..with China (10/17/2006 6:50:47 AM)
China has the largest POTENTIAL market in the world, their own internal one. They are currently the largest consumers of steel and copper in the world and on such a scale that metal prices are going through the roof. China also need energy and THAT is where the competition comes in. When their internal markets start to take off, the worlwide demand for oil is going to become intense. Which is why China is striking all sorts of deals with oil suppliers as far away as Venezuala. Which is why Bush wanted bases in Iraq, it was a way of ensuring we will always control the ME. Look up and read the PNAC document, the idiots in Bush's cabinet all worked on it. The war with China will be largely economic and thanks to Bush they are winning that one hands down. The Democrats are going to do their best to turn it around, they are already talking about making deficits unpatriotic and I am sure that behind that move will come one calling saving patriotic.

meatcleaver -> RE: If it comes to a shooting war..with China (10/17/2006 7:59:21 AM)
It doesn't make war necessary. The USA wastes a huge amount of energy it uses, it could easily lower its dependency on oil, change to alternatives and invest in new energies which would help its economy. All that is needed is political will and it is political will that is in short supply, not only in the US but in the west has a whole. A study done by the London School of Economics said Britain could reduce its dependency on oil by 70% within a generation if it diversified energy sources and conserved energy. It is true that the average American uses twice as much energy as a European but that just indicates how much room the US has to manouevre. As for steel, looking at current prices that is almost as common as sand and as for copper, recycling more would help. The world won't survive if the average Chinese person consumes half of what the average American consumes so thinking about a militarized China with a full blown consumer society patroling the world for resources is the least of humanity's problems.

CrappyDom -> RE: If it comes to a shooting war..with China (10/17/2006 8:19:40 AM)
That cheap as sand steel price is driving up the cost of industrial equipment in the US. And if you think people are going to do with less without fighting about it, you are more than just and idealist!

caitlyn -> RE: If it comes to a shooting war..with China (10/17/2006 8:19:59 AM)
Right now, China is not a serious military threat to the United States. There is a wide gap in aircraft technology between the two countries. China could buy more aircraft, but unless the United States is willing to sell them F-22's and B-2's, they will only be buying second rate aircraft. The gap on the water is even wider, and much harder to close. Building a modern navy is not something that could be done in our lifetime. Both of these military advantages would be difficult to counter via manpower.

RubberWitch -> RE: If it comes to a shooting war..with China (10/17/2006 8:24:16 AM)
OK, starting with the first bit, the article. I love that the author assumes that Briatin will follow the states in on this. Sorry fellows, I think you're going to be on your own on this one. Not only because of peoples support, or lack of it for another pupylike following into the battlefield, but because WE didn't sign an agreement to help taiwan fight against China (Notice, not "Step in and fight", just help. I wonder if anyone would remember that) Secondly, Whether Taiwan is independantor not is a really complex issue, and Crappydom's simplification of it to "Stealing" is seriously offensive. Lets be honest here. If China were to pull out of Tibet, and retake Taiwan on the same day, the newspapers would be carrying frontpage pics of the far more photogenic tibetan monks and peasants. No-one'd care about Taiwan. I'd also like to take issue with CD's comments on the British Army. The ones who have pulled America's arse out of the fire to often for you to count (And don't you dare bring up the Manhattan Project untill you look at the pre-project research, AND the project makeup). Next, China's army. "The greatest Eagles hide their Talons" (oh, and Caitlyn what makes you think they're not making their own?) OK Sissytoserve, you're next! Yes they are a communist country. Do you understand what this means, or are you still with the whole red menace thing? Human rights record? Shall we have a look at what america is currently up to? not to mention Modal averages of living standards? Yes they have an army. and a good one. Is this scary OMG they've got an army, and nukes, and a leader who thinks he's the world's babysitter in a cowboy hat...oh, wait a second... China have basically picked up the worlds manufacturing because of the laziness of the west, and the capitalist tendency to cut margins. They didn't steal it, they were given it. What was that Captain Conservative? How can Real Americans be asked to compete with little slitty eyed folk who'll do the job for $1 a day? Well, considering they can still eat (and quite wll actually) on that Dollar, maybe you should be asking why a Real American can't. If only there were some form of government system to prevent the move of capital to the upper eschelons, and could make sure that there was an equal, accessible amount for the COMUNity. If it comes to a shooting war with China, you're all fucked. Because the bullets are all made in GZ! Rant over. go have an egg roll. J&c

meatcleaver -> RE: If it comes to a shooting war..with China (10/17/2006 8:29:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CrappyDom That cheap as sand steel price is driving up the cost of industrial equipment in the US. And if you think people are going to do with less without fighting about it, you are more than just and idealist! According to this steel prices aren't going anywhere fast so its not the price of steel driving prices up. Maybe it was Bush's steel tariff working through the system. http://www.dot.state.oh.us/construction/oca/Steel_Index_for_PN525.htm http://www.steelonthenet.com/prices.html As for people not being prepared to do with less without fighting about it, America might be on its own there.

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