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RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/17/2006 7:35:19 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		Trust has a pace of it's own ......I trust different people with different things and in different ways.

I'd be a noodle to have *no limits*  with anyone other than someone that it's possible to have *no limits* with.

I'm afraid of some things and there are some things, that given the choice I would definitely not do, even now. The fact that I have this huge trust is the over-riding factor and is the sense that I'm always left with.

He worked hard for it... if I could easily give it to *Joe down the road*, it'd not be worth a jot.

agirl



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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/17/2006 8:20:19 AM   
HollyS


Posts: 230
Joined: 1/5/2006
Status: offline 		julia, I love this thread and am so glad to see you start it.  While I've not gotten through all the replies yet, this really stood out for me:

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

This is a balancing act. I think that many of us submissives assume that our dominants want our complete capitulation under their control, but that might not be necessarily so. I am learning what exactly he wants control over and what he does not necessarily want responsibility for... and his limits are as valid as my own...


This is so important to remember and I think it relates to what LA said about not letting go of your limits in order to prove something.  Dissolution of all existing limits may not be on a Dom's radar -- perhaps s/he is even made more secure or confident by the fact that you are able to express where your lines in the sand are.  Like you said, it's about learning what he wants to control vs. what he doesn't and working within those bounds to develop the trust and surrender you need in the relationship.

People need boundries no matter who they are with -- it's the shape those boundries take that help define the relationship. We should remember that Dom's are entitled to limits too, even when they don't correspond with the sometimes-submissive desire to "give up all."

~Holly


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RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/17/2006 9:06:20 AM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bandit25

LA. you hit it right on the head!  So often it seems that hard limits are goals or obstacles to overcome.  I agree that compromise is good, but compromising one's self is not.  I know many believe that letting go of limits is a trust issue.  I don't necessarily agree...at least, I don't necessarily agree that you may not let go because there isn't complete trust.  I think it can be more a matter of finding a person who has many of the same limits that you do.


The thing is he has always said that it is ok for me to have limits. He has never made a judgment on them. In fact I would say this is the reason that things that used to scare me do not anymore. The one limit I just let go of, well it is not that big of a deal. I am amazed at the rationalizations I was making to keep it in my head. He never challenged this. He has never brought it up as something important to him.

The importance lies in my mind, not in the actual doing of that action. I do not want to deny him this if he wants it... and this thing does give him power over me.

The ironic thing that he made me realize was that he already had this power and exercised it in mental and emotional ways instead of physical ways... and it arouses my submissiveness...

Really quite odd  how human beings think (especially this human being meaning me)

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RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/17/2006 9:11:15 AM   
Lady Alaria


Posts: 160
Joined: 10/16/2006
Status: offline 		I just want to thank you for this thread in general. In particular julia and Synergy for sharing this experience. It's been enlightening and given me great food for thought.

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RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/17/2006 9:16:35 AM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

Dissolution of all existing limits may not be on a Dom's radar -- perhaps s/he is even made more secure or confident by the fact that you are able to express where your lines in the sand are. 


I hope anyone new to Ds will read that line if they are feeling somewhat overwhelmed with checklists, defining limits, and knowing themselves. It takes time to learn these things about yourself, and it is a huge assumption to think that your partner will automatically expect you to have no limits...

We did not do checklists because his philosophy is I consent once to an activity it is forever his. I can no longer take my consent back once the activity has been successfully accomplished. I can communicate discomfort, use my safeword, use direct communication to make something stop, but once I have agreed to something he can do it anytime he pleases because that is his control over me. He considers anything I have not consented to a defacto limit.... it seems to work pretty well.

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RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/17/2006 9:19:40 AM   
michaelGA2


Posts: 1533
Joined: 4/26/2006
Status: offline 		if someone has a hard limit, they should stick to it..."hard limits" are named as such for a reason.

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RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/17/2006 9:26:29 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
The ironic thing that he made me realize was that he already had this power and exercised it in mental and emotional ways instead of physical ways... and it arouses my submissiveness...


Sometimes there really IS a method to the madness. :)  It's nice when someone actually SHOWS it, rather than just bragging about it and coming up empty.

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RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/17/2006 9:33:16 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA2

if someone has a hard limit, they should stick to it..."hard limits" are named as such for a reason.


Can you elaborate as to why someone should keep a limit they no longer want?

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Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/17/2006 9:38:35 AM   
michaelGA2


Posts: 1533
Joined: 4/26/2006
Status: offline 		well, to each their own, but to me, it shows desperation, the end of principles and low self respect...but that's only my opinion.

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RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/17/2006 9:40:48 AM   
sapphirepleasure


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From: Land of Enchantment
Status: offline 		Or maybe it shows trust, surrender, and a willingness to grow through venturing into unfamiliar territory.

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RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/17/2006 9:41:17 AM   
michaelGA2


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Status: offline 		possibly

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RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/17/2006 9:42:21 AM   
gypsylee


Posts: 293
Joined: 9/18/2006
From: Melbournia, Australia
Status: offline

*sits and wracks brain over what this 'limit' actually is*

come on. i can't be the only one. can we play 20 Questions julia? ;)

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RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/17/2006 9:43:33 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sapphirepleasure
Or maybe it shows trust, surrender, and a willingness to grow through venturing into unfamiliar territory.

Well again, I don't think people should use limits as some totem or measuring stick for "submissive/relationship goodliness" limits CAN change- including hard ones, just because life and people change. 

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"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/17/2006 9:44:06 AM   
demistress


Posts: 391
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Dela-where?
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA2

well, to each their own, but to me, it shows desperation, the end of principles and low self respect...but that's only my opinion.


I am absolutely SHOCKED that I disagree yet again. 

I say, it's a sign of awesome deep trust that you're willing to stretch your limits. The only reason to set hard limits in my opinion is because you don't trust a person to understand or respect how things make you feel.  I always set hard limits with people up front, but ideally, I would like to find people with whom all limits become meaningless.  It is in times of my greatest deepest happiness, trust, and love that I have found myself willing to push past my boundaries, and I don't mean just 'sexually'. 

Then again, m, you have pretty much said that I must inherently be all the things you mentioned above because I'm a lifestyle/PRO domme.  *rolls eyes*

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RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/17/2006 9:45:44 AM   
michaelGA2


Posts: 1533
Joined: 4/26/2006
Status: offline 		removed due to repetition


< Message edited by michaelGA2 -- 10/17/2006 9:49:45 AM >

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RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/17/2006 9:46:50 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: demistress
I say, it's a sign of awesome deep trust that you're willing to stretch your limits. The only reason to set hard limits in my opinion is because you don't trust a person to understand or respect how things make you feel.

No- the reason I set a limit not to do casual blood play and have unprotected sex is because there are diseases and pregnancy issues.

It doesn't matter how understanding someone is or how much they respect me- they can't make their blood and semen safe.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

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RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/17/2006 9:48:23 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA2

well, to each their own, but to me, it shows desperation, the end of principles and low self respect...but that's only my opinion.


Well that appears a flame of an opinion, which we all have one.  I bear no animosity on your rather harsh judgment of someone you do not know (me), and because you do not know me that makes your opinion about my level of desperation rather moot. You may find you will eat your own words one day Michael. It rather reminds me of people that have no children being experts on rearing them....and when they have them one day they realize the reality was just something they were not prepared for... good luck to you.



_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to michaelGA2)
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RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/17/2006 9:49:19 AM   
michaelGA2


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Joined: 4/26/2006
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quote:

I say, it's a sign of awesome deep trust that you're willing to stretch your limits.


trust only goes so far...but i won't bore people with over-stating certain hard limits. almost everyone can change...almost


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RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/17/2006 9:50:31 AM   
Iskander


Posts: 264
Joined: 9/26/2006
Status: offline 		Stick me in an autoclave for an hour and I can guarantee my fluids will be pretty safe LA.. 
Dunno if I'd be much fun though...

Iskander...



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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/17/2006 9:50:36 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA2

well, to each their own, but to me, it shows desperation, the end of principles and low self respect...but that's only my opinion.


It really depends what they are Michael, and why.  Come on......I wouldn't let ANY old person near me with a needle, a cane, a bullwhip or a nappy.....what would be the point of holding onto some personal *yuk or scare* factor do, when you are no longer scared or yukked?

agirl

(in reply to michaelGA2)
Profile   Post #: 60
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