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RE: Homosexual’s marriages… - 10/28/2006 5:04:23 PM

SirKenin

Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Not exactly. The Christian doctrine of free will is not expressed in the Bible. It emerged in the long process of exegesis that transformed the text into dogma.

Well, I do not exactly agree with that. The very first example of free will, the most infamous one, was the example of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, eating the forbidden fruit.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 181

RE: Homosexual’s marriages… - 10/28/2006 5:12:17 PM

orfunboi

Posts: 1223
Joined: 10/22/2005
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http://www.lionking.org/~kovu/bible/section01.html#detail_study

edited to add, this was not in response to any one post. It more replies to any above posts, that use the bible to justify the discrimination. i used the reply form at the bottom and it put "reply to MistressCamille" in by itself.

< Message edited by orfunboi -- 10/28/2006 5:16:25 PM >

(in reply to MistressCamille)

Post #: 182

RE: Homosexual’s marriages… - 10/28/2006 5:15:46 PM

SirKenin

Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: orfunboi

http://www.lionking.org/~kovu/bible/section01.html#detail_study

His tyrade is completely unsubstantiated bullshit and does not even coincide with accepted Greek Lexicons, nevermind history or anything else.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to orfunboi)

Post #: 183

RE: Homosexual’s marriages… - 10/28/2006 5:21:08 PM

MistressCamille

Posts: 107
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

quote:

ORIGINAL: orfunboi

http://www.lionking.org/~kovu/bible/section01.html#detail_study

His tyrade is completely unsubstantiated bullshit and does not even coincide with accepted Greek Lexicons, nevermind history or anything else.

Here we go again. The bible can only be interpreted. Nobody can claim they know exactly what was meant by any one passage or any one author. It's not factual and in actuality most is not substantiated.

You don't get to say another person's view of it is wrong and yours is right.

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 184

RE: Homosexual’s marriages… - 10/28/2006 5:35:06 PM

SirKenin

Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
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It is not My opinion I am defending, and in this case I most certainly do get to say it is complete bullshit. I have done enough studying on the subject, including from more than one biased, bullshit webpage with an obvious attempt to justify the unjustifiable to know that what they are saying is complete crap.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to MistressCamille)

Post #: 185

RE: Homosexual’s marriages… - 10/28/2006 5:45:04 PM

orfunboi

Posts: 1223
Joined: 10/22/2005
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(in reply to MistressCamille)

Post #: 186

RE: Homosexual’s marriages… - 10/28/2006 6:14:12 PM

SirKenin

Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
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See, nobody can come back with their own conjecture and hope like hell that it substantiates a point or an argument, because it does not. If you want to start a separate thread, then we can reveal the true evidence. I have all weekend. I have debated this point on numerous occasions, so I am more than familiar with all the arguments. If you want to prove your point, that you might actually have a hope in hell of coming across as you know what you are talking about, rather than citing one webpage, which any idiot can do to "prove" either side of the argument, and thus constitutes no valid argument at all, then take your best shot.

Spare the applause until you have actually demonstrated that either one of you know what you are talking about and can substantiate it with substantial facts and research.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to orfunboi)

Post #: 187

RE: Homosexual’s marriages… - 10/28/2006 6:21:50 PM

MistressCamille

Posts: 107
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

I guess you don't get the point of debate. All you are interested in is winning. It doesn't matter if you are right or wrong, at least to you. You've not knocked down my points by any means.

I'm glad you have all weekend. I don't, I have a real life.

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 188

RE: Homosexual’s marriages… - 10/28/2006 7:17:15 PM

orfunboi

Posts: 1223
Joined: 10/22/2005
Status: offline

i could if i cared enough to spend the time and energy, but after countless arguments, with people telling me what my sexual desires are and why when they have NO CLUE, it's really not worth it.

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 189

RE: Homosexual’s marriages… - 10/28/2006 7:49:40 PM

trannysub007

Posts: 105
Joined: 9/3/2006
Status: offline

"Homosexuals make the wrong choice and pursue sin."

Lordandmaster, post #166

Homosexuality is not a choice. If it were, we'd all be bisexual. And, besides, with all the homophobic idiots out there, why would anyone choose to be gay anyway?

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 190

RE: Homosexual’s marriages… - 10/28/2006 8:01:18 PM

trannysub007

Posts: 105
Joined: 9/3/2006
Status: offline

"It merely makes them stuck between genders."

ZenrageTheKeeper, post #173

Homosexuality may have some biological roots, but it's not about being between genders. There are people who are between the genders; they are gender ambiguous. They identify with one gender, but are fine in their biological gender. i myself am f2M transgendered - and i'm gay. Put most simply, a trannyfag. Not a lesbian boi; not a gay man, necessarily. Gay men are men who are attracted to other men. Not people who don't know if they are male or female. Gender identity and sexual orientation are two very different things.

And neither one is a choice!

(in reply to ZenrageTheKeeper)

Post #: 191

RE: Homosexual’s marriages… - 10/28/2006 9:37:01 PM

SirKenin

Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: orfunboi

i could if i cared enough to spend the time and energy, but after countless arguments, with people telling me what my sexual desires are and why when they have NO CLUE, it's really not worth it.

Hmm I figured as much. Between you and Camille you figure that you can wrap it all up by citing one out of a million websites and spouting a few unsubstantiated comments. Anybody can find ANY site on the internet that backs up their point of view. It does not take a genius to do that. It does take someone clever to be able to present a substantial argument based on a significant compilation of facts, a task of which both of you failed miserably and obviously do not have the ability to muster judging by your final posts, even when given the opportunity and the challenge to do so.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to orfunboi)

Post #: 192

RE: Homosexual’s marriages… - 10/28/2006 9:50:52 PM

Zensee

Posts: 1564
Joined: 9/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin
Hmm I figured as much. Between you and Camille you figure that you can wrap it all up by citing one out of a million websites and spouting a few unsubstantiated comments. Anybody can find ANY site on the internet that backs up their point of view. It does not take a genius to do that. It does take someone clever to be able to present a substantial argument based on a significant compilation of facts, a task of which both of you failed miserably and obviously do not have the ability to muster judging by your final posts, even when given the opportunity and the challenge to do so.

This from the man who thinks it would be constructive to nuke North Korea. Live what you write.

And just how is it better to construe justification for your prejudice from the bible than it is to find agreement with it on the internet? The bible has absolutely no authority for many people and has no place in the legislation of a secular democracy.
0

_____________________________

"Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water." (proverb)

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 193

RE: Homosexual’s marriages… - 10/28/2006 9:53:51 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
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Why not include my comment that I don't agree with that view?

I don't have too much respect for someone who deliberately misquotes me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: trannysub007

"Homosexuals make the wrong choice and pursue sin."

Lordandmaster, post #166

Homosexuality is not a choice. If it were, we'd all be bisexual. And, besides, with all the homophobic idiots out there, why would anyone choose to be gay anyway?

(in reply to trannysub007)

Post #: 194

RE: Homosexual’s marriages… - 10/28/2006 9:59:37 PM

dcnovice

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

Marriage has always been between a male and female.

No, it hasn't. For much of history, marriage was between a male and multiple females. The shift, at least in the West, from polygamy to monogamy demonstrates that we are, in fact, capable of redefining marriage in major ways.

(in reply to LotusSong)

Post #: 195

RE: Homosexual’s marriages… - 10/28/2006 10:01:02 PM

dcnovice

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

Personally, I think gay marriage is a jobs program for divorce lawyers, but I have no strong moral objections and would vote for it.

Divorce, of course, being such a rarity among straight couples.

(in reply to WyrdRich)

Post #: 196

RE: Homosexual’s marriages… - 10/28/2006 10:04:03 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

Well, at the risk of of getting into a discussion that I'm really not going to enjoy, you have to understand the difference between scripture and exegesis. The interpretation that the story of the Garden of Eden is about free will--that's called exegesis. The Bible itself doesn't even use the phrase "free will."

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Not exactly. The Christian doctrine of free will is not expressed in the Bible. It emerged in the long process of exegesis that transformed the text into dogma.

Well, I do not exactly agree with that. The very first example of free will, the most infamous one, was the example of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, eating the forbidden fruit.

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 197

RE: Homosexual’s marriages… - 10/28/2006 10:21:29 PM

dcnovice

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

Your argument is completely flawed because nobody has the RIGHT to get married. Show Me where it says that in your Constitution.

Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html.

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 198

RE: Homosexual’s marriages… - 10/28/2006 10:24:16 PM

dcnovice

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

St Paul?

Strange, I thought it was Christianity. Not Paulianity / Churchianity / Mosianity or any other anity.

Maybe Insanity?

E

One has to quote Paul for antigay texts, because Jesus Christ, who repeatedly reached out to and embraced the marginal, said absolutely nothing on the subject.

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 199

RE: Homosexual’s marriages… - 10/28/2006 10:42:07 PM

dcnovice

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

only within the state they were issued.

Bear with me one more time Archer :)

.. and what are those rights that are given in the state where the Civil Union was issued in comparison to marriage?

Oh.. and to the general board.. I've thought of the most lovely alternative to the word marriage.. how about "Heart-fasting"?

Earlier today, my family buried a lesbian aunt. Mom, who was with her when she died, told me two stories that might speak to this thread. Seconds after my aunt died, the doctor barged in and asked who was the next of kin. My aunt's partner introduced herself and explained that she had power of attorney. The doctor replied, "Well, that expired when she died. Now who's an actual relative?"

Then came the funeral parlor. After the partner had signed all the papers, just as a widow/er would, the funeral director discreetly took my cousin aside and asked her to sign too. The mother-child relationship was clearly more legally real to him than that between my aunt and her beloved partner.

Would that ever have happened to a straight married person who'd just lost his/her spouse?

< Message edited by dcnovice -- 10/28/2006 11:13:35 PM >

(in reply to LotusSong)

Post #: 200

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