HELP Please!!!!

HELP Please!!!! (Full Version)

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WickedlyDevine -> HELP Please!!!! (10/17/2006 3:43:41 PM)
I have the worst time defining who I am. To a Dom I am a sub, to a sub I am a Dom. I for the longest time chose the realm of Switch as it was easier. Now as time has progressed, a few relationships later, I find that although I am a dominant person in general, in the bedroom my desire is to submit. Here is where it gets a little twisted, I want to submit to what I want. So back to Dom mode again. My recent problem is of utmost concern to me, I am recently married, to a man who stated he was into the same things I am. I should have been more specific in my asking of what he was into, for now I find he wants the same exact things done to him that I desire. I try, but I do not have any satisfaction in his reaction to treating him as a subby. How do I express to him that I NEED to feel my lovers scorn and wrath, I need to be kept in line, I need to defy for sheer satisfaction of retribution? I tell him, but he cannot understand the depth of my craving, its a drug, a fix, an addiction. How do I learn to share and enjoy it? He has never had a BDSM relationship, my prior relationship was a sub who had Dom tendacies, so it was pretty easy to convert him to my whims. I believe I am a Dom seeking sub status. How can I make this work with someone who is so subby he makes me look Boorishly Dom? Yet ironically as subby as he is, he is combative as well, with feelings made of glass. I have referred him to the appropriate web sites, given him insight, talked till I am blue in the face, rented movies, and purchased books. I am willing to do anything except become a strict Dom, I love him, and want all aspects of our relationship to work. I CANNOT go back to vanilla, I always hated that flavor!

RedSavageSlave -> RE: HELP Please!!!! (10/17/2006 3:47:57 PM)
It sounds like you may be a submissive who just hasnt met the man to Master you yet. :)

LotusSong -> RE: HELP Please!!!! (10/17/2006 4:02:00 PM)
Teach him all about you.. your body, your buttons etc. If he wants to serve.. it will be his job to fly you :) There is always that bit of male ego that will be wanting to show you just how good they are.... use it :) Put him in the position of letting him show you what he knows .

gypsygrl -> RE: HELP Please!!!! (10/17/2006 4:31:58 PM)
I have a really hard time defining myself, also, WickedlyDevine. I don't have any advice or suggestions but I can share my thinking about it. When I'm thinking about these things, I imagine a vertical axis, with dominant at the top and submissive at the bottom and neutral space in the middle. Basically, I can slide up and down that axis as the situation and necessity warrents. But, and this is the most important to me, when I'm doing what I want in my free time, I prefer to slide down to the bottom of the axis. When I'm submissive, its because I want and choose to be (given the right situation and person) and when I'm more dominant, its because I have to be. Neutral is everything else. I dunno. It works for me. :)

Sinergy -> RE: HELP Please!!!! (10/17/2006 5:19:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong Teach him all about you.. your body, your buttons etc. If he wants to serve.. it will be his job to fly you :) There is always that bit of male ego that will be wanting to show you just how good they are.... use it :) Put him in the position of letting him show you what he knows . To add a bit more to this thought, there is an aspect of male psychology where they tend to be incapable of backing down from being challenged. I would suggest that you quit trying to label what you are doing as Switch or Dominant or submissive or topping from the bottom or bottoming from the top or whatever. Labels improperly applied to something become a trap, a wall, an oubliette you cannot find your way out of. Think of it in terms of behaviors rather than motivations. Think of what you are doing as challenging him to become the one you need him to be. There is an aspect to training or teaching known as "approximating" where you have the dog you are showing how to fetch run to get something and look at it, then the trainer praises the dog wildly for having run to it. Then the dog picks it up and you praise the dog wildly for having picked it up. Then the dog brings it near you teasingly and you praise it. Then the dog sets it down near you and you praise it. Then the dog brings it to you and you praise it. And so on. You have found somebody in your life that you have a connection to and want to build something with this person. So make it fun. Sit down and pick days of the week where he is in charge or you are in charge. Do things on your day to be in charge, then tell him during aftercare /denouement how much you would enjoy him doing the same thing back to you. Praise and thank him for every little effort he makes. While he may not understand what you want at first, praise the little efforts he makes to go in the direction you want him to go. Avoid criticizing what he does wrong; that way lies learned helplessness and disappointment. Good luck! Sinergy

MasterFireMaam -> RE: HELP Please!!!! (10/17/2006 5:48:30 PM)
Yeah...but what does HE want? Expecting him to change who he is for you simply isn't fair. Not only that, it's flat out unlikely to happen...change is hard. Ask him if he wants to do this...and tell him he must be honest because your actions are based on what he says. If he doesn't want to do it, there are options, ranging from ending the relationship to bringing in an additional person. If he does, ask him what would be a better way of teaching him how as your methods obviously aren't working. Master Fire

Sinergy -> RE: HELP Please!!!! (10/17/2006 6:05:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam Yeah...but what does HE want? Expecting him to change who he is for you simply isn't fair. Not only that, it's flat out unlikely to happen...change is hard. Ask him if he wants to do this...and tell him he must be honest because your actions are based on what he says. If he doesn't want to do it, there are options, ranging from ending the relationship to bringing in an additional person. If he does, ask him what would be a better way of teaching him how as your methods obviously aren't working. Master Fire This is also true. I am not sure you can force somebody to be on top if they really dont want to be there on some level. Just me, could be wrong, but there you go. Sinergy

MASTERRocker -> RE: HELP Please!!!! (10/17/2006 6:09:41 PM)
Ahhh... but is the definition one of 'define'? or one who is seeking to be 'refined'? Just a consideration...... MASTER Rocker

Sinergy -> RE: HELP Please!!!! (10/17/2006 6:23:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MASTERRocker or one who is seeking to be 'refined'? Just a consideration...... Crude. Just me, could be wrong, but there you go. Sinergy

ladylexington -> RE: HELP Please!!!! (10/17/2006 6:46:07 PM)
There's always the option of a poly relationship that would allow you to sub...

WickedlyDevine -> RE: HELP Please!!!! (10/17/2006 7:42:47 PM)
I thank you thus far for your input. Adding another person in is not an option for either of us, nor is ending the marriage. He knows my buttons but refuses to implement them, sexually he is so submisive, he doesnt even get a clue unless I outright get mad and tell him I am bitchy because lack of intimacy. His problems stem deep, always being told a woman should be coddled, cared for, tended to, with care. Now I redefine what I consider caring, loving, attentive. I am very open with him, and very patient. The problem I am having is getting him to understand that this is not a game to me, it is a NEED. And furthermore, it is him that I want to fulfill that need. Keep coming, its helping.

Sinergy -> RE: HELP Please!!!! (10/17/2006 7:47:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WickedlyDevine I thank you thus far for your input. Adding another person in is not an option for either of us, nor is ending the marriage. He knows my buttons but refuses to implement them, sexually he is so submisive, he doesnt even get a clue unless I outright get mad and tell him I am bitchy because lack of intimacy. His problems stem deep, always being told a woman should be coddled, cared for, tended to, with care. Now I redefine what I consider caring, loving, attentive. I am very open with him, and very patient. The problem I am having is getting him to understand that this is not a game to me, it is a NEED. And furthermore, it is him that I want to fulfill that need. Keep coming, its helping. You get outright angry? This will not work to change his behavior. Men are not programmed that way. I suspect he doesnt realize that spanking your ass purple is a form of coddling and caring for. But I would strongly suggest you leave your anger behind because it is not productive, and start using less abrasive means to give your point. Men really do not do well being antagonized or attacked. Just me, could be wrong, but there you go. Sinergy

LAMPedge -> RE: HELP Please!!!! (10/17/2006 8:09:28 PM)
Why in the world did you marry him? And how quickly after meeting him? It sounds like...he said he was into the same stuff as him so you right away tied the knot, from your post.

juliaoceania -> RE: HELP Please!!!! (10/17/2006 8:34:57 PM)
quote: I thank you thus far for your input. Adding another person in is not an option for either of us, nor is ending the marriage. He knows my buttons but refuses to implement them, sexually he is so submisive, he doesnt even get a clue unless I outright get mad and tell him I am bitchy because lack of intimacy. I once had a three year relationship that ended because we were completely incompatible sexually and when it came to intimacy. I never got angry about that, he was my friend, and I knew I could accept things the way they were or move on.... if you love someone you accept them the way they are, you do not try to make them into something that they are not... it is selfish to expect someone to be something they just are not. quote: His problems stem deep, always being told a woman should be coddled, cared for, tended to, with care. Now I redefine what I consider caring, loving, attentive. I am very open with him, and very patient. The problem I am having is getting him to understand that this is not a game to me, it is a NEED. And furthermore, it is him that I want to fulfill that need. Keep coming, its helping . Frankly to get angry, resentful, and accusatory because someone is not meeting your needs is rather short sighted. In your opening post you lament that you do not know if you are sub or dom, and then you expect a BDSM newbie to know what you need from him when he is not equipped to meet those needs. It sounds to me as though you were not very clear in articulating a message and sticking with it, which if he is a sub it is crucial that he as a consistent message from a consistent top. Perhaps I have the wrong impression, but I do not feel it is anyone's "job" to meet my needs, they either do or they don't, and if I cannot live with what they do, well I have to make a judgment call... stay or go.. being angry and resentful and accusatory is not going to change anything.. being compassionate and the type of person you would like to be with may work wonders for you.

WickedlyDevine -> RE: HELP Please!!!! (10/17/2006 9:02:03 PM)
First, I did not say I get outright angry, however, I do state I am getting bitchy because I am in need, we do have a sense of humor, and ironically, he performs. Strange but true. Nor do I resent, harbor ill will, etc. I am seeking information on reprogramming what he was plugged up with from the get go. Consistency is key, however I am lacking suck tools in regards to this one. Thus this post. I have been compasionate, patient, etc. Yes I do have feelings, and yes I get upset, mad, whatever, and I am entitled to those, it is not as if I brow beat the guy. Our conversations have been very civil and insightful, however somehow I am not getting the response I desire patiently waiting and talking until I am blue in the face. There are a lot of assumptions here, such as marrying quickly, come on, not everyone drives the merchandise before buying, I am old in sentiment and value, and that is why this issue has not reared its ugly head until now. And yes, it is his job and mine to meet each others needs, or at least make great attempt. That is what you do when you love and devote yourself to another.

raiken -> RE: HELP Please!!!! (10/17/2006 9:05:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WickedlyDevine I thank you thus far for your input. Adding another person in is not an option for either of us, nor is ending the marriage. He knows my buttons but refuses to implement them, Perhaps "refuse" may not be the right word? Maybe he CAN'T push them, for if he did (from what you have shared thus far), he would not be real to you or true to himself or his own needs and desires. Afterall, it would be great if the fulfillment were mutual between the two of you. when one is unhappy, it throws the balance off, and the mutual enjoyment is, well, no longer mutual, but rather lopsided. This makes for an unhealthy connection. sexually he is so submisive, he doesnt even get a clue unless I outright get mad and tell him I am bitchy because lack of intimacy. Could be that you each have a different definition of what constitutes intimacy? His intimacy shows itself quite nicely through his submission in bed...can you accept him for who he is in this regard? Since poly is out, and ending the marraige is out, all that seems left is for mutual acceptance and understanding. If you both work together to find ways to fulfill each other, like maybe you thinking about him first, and not yourself, and vice versa. Maybe taking a break from your quest for your own needs to be met and focusing on his, may help the both of you. Putting each other first, well, someone has to start it, it may as well be you since you are posting it here. His problems stem deep, always being told a woman should be coddled, cared for, tended to, with care. So he has problems with the way he views the treatment of women. Maybe he doesn't see this as a problem and only you do? Hec there are some i know who would enjoy this type of man. *smile if i were in your shoes, i would try simply enjoying him with no expectations, but with sharing gentle nudges and kind persuasions, etc. The "in your face approach" does not often yeild high results. Now I redefine what I consider caring, loving, attentive. Why must you redefine something that is a part of him? He is who he is. Is he trying to redefine you also in this same regard? Does he feel the same about himself as you describe him here? Do you wonder how he would feel if he were to read all of this thread? I am very open with him, and very patient. The problem I am having is getting him to understand that this is not a game to me, it is a NEED. And furthermore, it is him that I want to fulfill that need. It sounds like you want him to perhaps become someone he is not. You want him to fulfill all your needs, and sometimes there is no one person who can do all of that. What does he want? Keep coming, its helping. This is just to offer some perspective, hoping this helps you think about things or maybe trigger another angle to try if nothing else. Best to you both ~raiken

juliaoceania -> RE: HELP Please!!!! (10/17/2006 9:11:11 PM)
Perhaps he thinks that nice guys don't hit girls, I would suggest that you ask him to read threads about spankings and masochism and realize nice girls like it, and nice guys do it... Other than that he may be a square peg you are trying to fit in a round hole... It is nice to think that we can conform to fit each others needs, this is not always possible. Part of love is accepting someone just the way they are... I think that is the most important aspect of love because that means it is unconditional... I wish you luck... I really really do, and hopefully it is just a matter of information.. have you given him books to read like "The Loving Dominant"?

LAMPedge -> RE: HELP Please!!!! (10/17/2006 10:09:20 PM)
You have a problem there. You are trying to reprogram him. A person is not a computer. You have a problem. I really, honestly encourage you to think about that.

Archer -> RE: HELP Please!!!! (10/17/2006 10:22:54 PM)
Having trouble figuring out who/ what you are? Good it shouldn't be easy, it's supposed to be hard, otherwise we value the identity too little.

WickedlyDevine -> RE: HELP Please!!!! (10/17/2006 10:47:31 PM)
Quick note...he does read this.....this is a mutual endeavor. I am not trying to reprogram, I am trying to aleviate the bs he has been fed. He desires what I do, therefore there is hope.

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