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RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 8:35:28 PM   
caitlyn


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I do not agree. They would be able to pay for these services, because they would all have jobs. They would have jobs, because American industry would, a) not be getting their ass kicked by counties with a cheap labor pool, b) not have to take their operations overseas to get this pool.
 
I'm sorry ... in my opinion you are buying into a line of thinking that has been disproven in this country again and again ... since this country was founded. Gaining votes by fear mongering, is an old American tradition.

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RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 8:40:11 PM   
sweetnurseBBW


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From a healthcare perspective. Illegal immigrants are overwhelming the system. The reality is most illegals that come form Central America aren't very educated and cannot afford to pay for services. If they can't read or right their own language how to expect them to learn ours. Who is going to teach them? Who is going to pay for it?

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RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 8:57:17 PM   
ownedgirlie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

 
Bringing immigrants into this discussion seems a poorly focused point of view. They don't even vote.


For clarification sake, do you mean illegal immigrants?  Lots of immigrants become US citizens and vote.

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RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 8:57:56 PM   
caitlyn


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You don't have to be educated to work in a factory. If we had low income workers, there would be huge numbers of factory type jobs, and these companies would pay for healthcare for these workers, because paying for healthcare for workers is far cheaper than shipping parts to assemble a Ford, in from Mexico.
 
In my opinion, you have to think outside the box on this issue. Yes, the healthcare system is overloaded by people without insurance, but the answer is the figure out how to get them insurance, not denying them the ability to come here, and by default strangling American businesses of a low income workforce.
 
In my opinion, what you and Popeye suggest, may sound good in theory, but upon further examination is only a recipe to escallate what is already a dangerous trend ... to move America's industrial base to foreign countries.

< Message edited by caitlyn -- 10/19/2006 9:11:29 PM >

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RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 9:06:23 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy


Hello A/all,

I was having a discussion on the phone with strumpet a while ago talking about the job market in that part of the state of California she lives in.  Apparently, there are some jobs like picking spinach and scooping cow manure that dont pay particularly well and no American citizen wants to do them.

I pointed out to her that Cesar Chavez and the grape growers in California faced similar issues 60-80 years ago and they got around it by unionizing and demanding better working conditions for migrant workers.

United we bargain, divided we beg.

Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy



Sinergy, I agree. Years ago I was in a Union.
The problem is that everyone wants help but they don't want to pay the working man or woman anymore.
They want to drive Mercedes Benz's instead of Cadilacs.
In Capitalism if you can't find help you raise the pay rates until you can, not hire people who are in our country illegally at lower rates!
We're supposed to be a Capitalistic country but only the rich are doing well and they're doing well because they're breaking our laws!


It is not only that, popeye.

There is no actual law that says Pacific Bell cannot move their customer support center to Mumbai.

There is no actual law that says that Ford cannot have their cars made in China.

With NAFTA and CAFTA in place, there is no law that says that Dell cannot move their factories to Mexico.

To me, the issue is not about what is legal, the issue is about what is right.

Auto manufacturers in this country started to show a severe lag in auto sales around the time the Clinton era of prosperity was gutted by Monkeyboy and all those Americans now found their jobs disappearing.  Happily, McDonalds was there to keep them out of the unemployed statistics so the people in Dumbfuckistan could believe that Monkeyboy was doing a bang-up job.  But McDonalds does not pay enough to buy either a Cadillac made in China or a Mercedes Benz made in Alabama.

The reality of the situation is that when the investor money fled from the IT industry, and the jobs were offshored to Mumbai, all those people who were previously making nice wages doing computer jobs could no longer afford to buy cars, or computers, or go on vacations, or whatever.  When auto manufacturers broke their unions, and cut the wages of the workers, these workers could no longer afford to buy things.  When steel mills closed and left it up to China and Korea to make steel products for pennies on the dollar, all those people who had high paying jobs to support their families were now SOL.

Our prosperity was built on the backs of the people of America who worked for a living and built a strong economy.  This has since been coopted by a bunch of greedy multinationalists who really dont care whether you or I starve as long as they get rich off it.

I was chatting with somebody a while ago who said that the older he got, the more the logic of "Compost the Rich" came unbidden to his mind.

Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy


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RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 9:10:32 PM   
caitlyn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie
For clarification sake, do you mean illegal immigrants?  Lots of immigrants become US citizens and vote.


And once they become citizens, they are no longer immigrants.
 
More to the point, I believe we should open our borders to anyone that isn't a criminal, etc ... People would work towards becoming citizens, in the quest to have a better life for their children ... the way it used to be. There would be no 'illegal immigrants', because immigration would be legal and simple, once again. Get on a boat, don't be Scarface, and you're in.
 
My ancestor came here from Ireland during the Civil War, and fought in Cobb's Georgia Legion. The dregs of society, transformed through hard work, into upper middle class. Isn't that a dream worth having, and an offer worth extending to other people.
 
Exclusionism is strangling our industry and will be the ruination of our country. We can do what is right, and what is smart, all in one fell swoop.
 
Again, my opinion.

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RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 9:11:12 PM   
sweetnurseBBW


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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

You don't have to be educated to work in a factory. If we had low income workers, there would be huge numbers of factory type jobs, and these companies would pay for healthcare for these workers, because paying for healthcare for workers is far cheaper than shipping parts to assemble a Ford, in from Mexico.
 
In my opinion, you have to think outside the box on this issue. Yes, the healthcare system is overloaded by people without insurance, but the answer is the figure out how to get them insurance, not denying them the ability to come here, and by default strangling American businesses of a low income workforce.
 
In my opinion, what you and Popeye suggest, may sound good in theory, but upon further examination is only a recipe to escallate what is already a dangerous trent ... to move America's industrial base to foreign countries.
 


You have a  nice theory but it isn't reality.

< Message edited by sweetnurseBBW -- 10/19/2006 9:12:20 PM >


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RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 9:26:36 PM   
caitlyn


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Considering that the system I promote, worked for a very long time, worked well, and help make this country an industrial power ... would you care to support your claim that it doesn't represent reality?

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RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 9:31:10 PM   
sweetnurseBBW


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Come to work with me one day.

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RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 9:49:14 PM   
caitlyn


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Wouldn't that just teach me that the current system isn't working?
 
This discussion has become the definition of insanty ... doing the same thing again and again, and hoping for a different outcome. We have played this 'keep them out' game before. It didn't work then and it won't work now. Chinese immigrants didn't ruin the country, they helped build a railroad that spanned the continent. Irish and Italian immigrants didn't ruin America, they helped make the American northeast an industrial giant. German and eastern European immigrants didn't ruin America, they helped make the coal and steel industry of the United States, the envy of the world. All of these people helped populate the midwest, all the way to the Pacific.
 
Oh, screw it ... lets just ship our entire industrial infrastructure to China. That's what you want, isn't it?

< Message edited by caitlyn -- 10/19/2006 9:52:03 PM >

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RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 9:52:22 PM   
sweetnurseBBW


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I didn't say that at all. I said my perspective was from the healthcare system. You have misread and misunderstood. Others have said thing that you mention. Not me. I was only referring to healthcare. You are way off and very defensive for no reason. I can't make you understand so I am done with this. I have said nothing about factories or moving jobs to other countries. Good luck to you.

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RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 9:56:41 PM   
caitlyn


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So, I guess that means you are not going to quantify the statement that this is a nice theory but doesn't represent reality?
 
Stick to the Junior Varsity.

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RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 9:57:40 PM   
sweetnurseBBW


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Stick to reality and stop being defensive when you can't understand something. Honestly your opinion doesn't mean a thing to me. Good luck to you.

< Message edited by sweetnurseBBW -- 10/19/2006 10:00:38 PM >


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RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 10:09:12 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

You don't have to be educated to work in a factory. If we had low income workers, there would be huge numbers of factory type jobs, and these companies would pay for healthcare for these workers, because paying for healthcare for workers is far cheaper than shipping parts to assemble a Ford, in from Mexico.
 
In my opinion, you have to think outside the box on this issue. Yes, the healthcare system is overloaded by people without insurance, but the answer is the figure out how to get them insurance, not denying them the ability to come here, and by default strangling American businesses of a low income workforce.
 
In my opinion, what you and Popeye suggest, may sound good in theory, but upon further examination is only a recipe to escallate what is already a dangerous trend ... to move America's industrial base to foreign countries.


(Shakes head and walks away)

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RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 10:09:58 PM   
caitlyn


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Oh, I completely understand you ... I just don't agree with you. I think your argument lacks any backing, and ignores the bigger picture. Please forgive my bluntness, but making your live easier at the hospital where you work, at least in my mind, is not worth destroying our industrial might.
 
There is also no defensiveness here. That line was boring the first few thousand times is was used on this board. I was only giving you to opportunity to expand on your point. Sort of what we do here on message boards.
 
Nite nite ...

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RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 10:11:33 PM   
Lordandmaster


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http://youtube.com/watch?v=75YJecAzrRA

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RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 10:12:26 PM   
sweetnurseBBW


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The are nice enough to take turns and alternate hands.

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RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 10:12:45 PM   
caitlyn


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Very lame ... Popeye. I've never known you to back away so easily.
 
Must have hit pretty close to the mark.

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RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 10:18:11 PM   
caitlyn


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Trying to get that smart ass comments percentage up past 95% again?

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RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/19/2006 10:35:24 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Did your boyfriend dump you or something today?

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