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calling a girl out ... your opinions? - 1/28/2005 10:17:17 AM   
slavedesires


Posts: 669
Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline 		Master and i have been in contact with a girl whose profile appears on alt and here on CM.
In her very first response, she told Master He was not sadistic enough for her.
In her second, she appressively postured and told Him to cut the BS cause she would not tolerate being called a "girl" or "lilone" for she was a grown woman with her won identity and she was a professional (i believe a psychologist), but she also told Him she was an escort.
she responds to me calling me "girl" & "honey."
i challenged her, that if she was a submissive, note i did not say "true" submissive:
1. how could she be so disrespectful in the way she communicated to Him (i read her reply, she was down right violently rude! IMHO)
2. how could she find "lilone" or "girl" so deplorable (when i find another Dom, who doesn't know me, calling me slut, bitch or servant more deplorable than just "girl" or "lilone")
3. also if, she was not really a submissive, but was looking for something other than what she has in personal ads, why call herself such ...
and i ended by saying "why pretend to be what you are not? This behaviour is very disrespectful to girls like me."
Was i out of place?
Do other girls find this disrepetful to who they are and another "posing" as a sub?

Disclaimer on the use of "true" :: i have no right to say a girl is or is not a sub or slave. Tis why i refrain from using terms like "true" to describe a label within this lifestyle. Master tells me, its the attitude and i have no right to judge motives, intent or attitudes of girls i do not know or have never met.

thanks for the opinions...i know they will vary tremondously.

shy

_____________________________

i speak only my personal opinion, sometimes O/ours.

"i am the keeper of fragile things and i have kept what is indisolvable."
....the greatest gift.....vulnerability
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RE: calling a girl out ... your opinions? - 1/28/2005 10:40:03 AM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

i ended by saying "why pretend to be what you are not? This behaviour is very disrespectful to girls like me."
Was i out of place?


I feel you had the right to say anything you wanted to her. Who really know's her reasons why she was rude to you and your Master? Only she does. You could ask her. Perhap's you all got off on the wrong foot? Perhap's you were not what she was seeking and she knew it up front, yet didn't want to say it. So she was rude enough until she got out of the situation. We cannot judge unless we had her side of the story.
However, as far as free speech goes. If you don't tell someone how you feel, how will they ever know?

(in reply to slavedesires)
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RE: calling a girl out ... your opinions? - 1/28/2005 11:07:54 AM   
panthergoddess


Posts: 93
Joined: 1/11/2005
From: Bessemer City, NC USA
Status: offline 		Well we all handle situations differently I suppose. For my part, had it been me in your shoes, I would have kept silent and let my Master deal with it but would have told HIM up front that basically that person was not worthy of either of our time effort energy or emotions and just to let it go.

"There is much peace found
When you simply turn around."

_____________________________

"No good deed goes unpunished."

(in reply to sub4hire)
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RE: calling a girl out ... your opinions? - 1/28/2005 11:28:02 AM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline
quote:

how could she find "lilone" or "girl" so deplorable

Not being female, my opinion may not count, but since your master has no relationship with her I think he deserves just what he got. I see "lilone" as an attempt to place himself as the "bigone" above her, and so it is presumptuous coming before it is clear that she will accept it. In other words, he was talking down to her, and I think it shows a lack of respect by him so it's good she gave it right back.

Furthermore, whenever I see a guy use the term "lilone", it strikes me as contrived posing and part of a domly act because it isn't something most people would say if they were in a social situation outside the scene. For example, if I were socializing with workmates and one referred to his partner as "lilone", I'd think he is some kind of silly fool and I suspect others would give him funny looks as well. If you don't like that example, then imagine him calling a lady cop "lilone" as she writes a ticket; I'd love to see that. Anyway, it seems such lingo is "normal" in some circles such as yours, but it isn't as acceptable as you'd like to believe either.

So it sounds to me she knows exactly what she's looking for, but it just doesn't happen to be you two. It doesn't mean she's not submissive; it just makes her selective.

< Message edited by happypervert -- 1/28/2005 11:34:19 AM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to slavedesires)
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RE: calling a girl out ... your opinions? - 1/28/2005 12:03:45 PM   
panthergoddess


Posts: 93
Joined: 1/11/2005
From: Bessemer City, NC USA
Status: offline 		Happy.....I'll have to respectfully disagree in some way here.

I use "lilone" as one of my plethora of terms of endearment. And I DO INDEED say them all quite regularly to the people I know and meet. For example: I'm in a resturant and the man or woman at a table next to me drops formthing and I pick it up, as I'm offering it back "Here ya sweety/lilone/darlin/peaches/honey/etc/etc"

Now it may be that I have such a cute lil southern accent with which to deliver such a bold phrase to people I hardly know that makes them more willing to accept it. But bottom line they accept it.

Grace is not accepting what we want but accepting what we are given. Just because one says something does not mean that it's interpreted as it's intended. The person that retorted to the Masters words did so in an unacceptable way, she herself will have to own that emotion. But the recievers do not have to.

Just because one is rude to you does not mean that you have to return the favor. And if the girl in question indeed found it rude and offensive, there are far better ways to articulate that than to be rude. "Sir, I would appreciate you not calling me that as I find it to be a bit offensive and degrading".....Clarity and respect in the delivery.


I swear the art of communication is dying before our eyes.

_____________________________

"No good deed goes unpunished."

(in reply to happypervert)
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RE: calling a girl out ... your opinions? - 1/28/2005 12:31:37 PM   
BeachMystress


Posts: 2156
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
Status: offline
I understand the subs response to being called girl or lil one by a stranger. I only use such terms when I'm in Domme mode. Anytime I address someone as girl, boy or lil one, I am not speaking to them as a person. I am a Dominant speaking to a submissive. Since people can be very selective about who they acknowledge as Dominant, it can offend them to have someone they do not know address them as a submissive.

Submission, in my eyes, should be something given to one person. I am not interested in a sub who is willing to submit to anyone and my sub should understand it is an insult for a Dominant who is not his to refer to him as boy or lil one. He is not their boy, their lil one, their slut or their sub. He is mine.. Words have meanings and anyone who calls a random sub by a diminutive has placed themselves above the sub. While some do not mind this presumption, others are very offended by it. Approaching a stranger with respect is always a good idea.

The reason her note back to him was so rude may be because she felt he had been rude first. From what I understand, a lot of female subs get contacted by males who want to assume immediate rights over them. No wonder it can get to be a sore point for them. From the information you've provided, I wonder why your Dom continued contact with her after being told in the first mail that she didn't feel they were a match. Why ever he did, it sounds to me like it set the tone for her feeling harassed by someone she had already told no. Is it right that she was rude? I don't know enough of the circumstances. I'd have to read all correspondence between them. From reading your disclaimer where you say "Master tells me, its the attitude and i have no right to judge motives, intent or attitudes of girls i do not know", it sounds like your Dom has a realistic idea of D/s.

Your best idea is not to take such things as this woman's email to heart. I know it is hard to not jump and defend the person you adore, but maybe next time let him do his own fighting if such is needed. It is sweet that you are offended on his behalf.. but did this letter even phase him? You may be working yourself up over something that he laughed off. As always, talk with him about how he feels about it and how it made you feel.

As for the "Dom" you don't know referring to you as slut, bitch or servant, I can't take them seriously as Dominants. I understand your profile doesn't say you are taken so they don't realize they are poaching, but even still. You approach someone you do not know with respect. It smacks of egoism to assume that because they slapped the title Master or Dominant on themselves that they are capable of dominating you.

< Message edited by BeachMystress -- 1/28/2005 12:32:17 PM >

_____________________________

Beach Mystress
*Do not threaten the weak. Intimidate the strong. ~ Stevenson*
http://beachmystress.jigsy.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachmystress/

(in reply to slavedesires)
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RE: calling a girl out ... your opinions? - 1/28/2005 12:31:55 PM   
siamsa24


Posts: 2426
Joined: 2/2/2004
Status: offline 		I agree with you happypervert, I have had many individuals call me "girl" or "lilone" and I have simply replied "I'm sorry you must have misheard me, my name is Diann, but you can call me Di"
I see it as a term of endearment, but a personal one. I call many people sweetie and hon, but girl, little girl, and lilone are reserved for individuals who are very close to me.

(in reply to happypervert)
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RE: calling a girl out ... your opinions? - 1/28/2005 2:42:29 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
From a personal point of view, I dislike being refered to as anything but my real name or my nick unless I know the person really well. It does not make me less of a submissive, nor less of a person. I actually find it quite disrespectful, but thats my own hang up...
That said if a slave or sub addressed me as 'girl', it would depend on the context. If the slave/sub was saying , for example.... *from one girl to another...*.... I would have no complaint. But if I was beckoned as 'girl' ... I would simply ask to be acknowledged as I have introduced myself.

If she believes that Your Master is not Sadistic enough for her, that is her choice and she has, IMO , communicated quite clearly. At least she is not just 'going along for the ride'.... only to disappoint you both later on.

You spoke your view, which you have the freedom to do(as long as this is your Masters Will), however your idea of how a submissive should behave, or act, may not be the same as another person. One cannot assume anothers identity, but acknowledge the identity that has been identified. She may not be a 'girl' like you. She may be whoever she believes she is.

She may have upset you by not behaving in a way that you found appropriate... she may have offended you by not acknowledging your Master in the same way you would, or would expect. But then, she isnt you. And she doesnt belong to your Master. If she was rude or it was that you just did not agree with her, it is wiser to walk away with dignity, than to try to justify something that needs no defense.

I do not wish to be rude to you nor Your Master, but I find it more disrespectful that she... and others like her, are told 'she is pretending', just because she does not fit your 'ideal'...

with love and peace.

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to slavedesires)
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RE: calling a girl out ... your opinions? - 1/28/2005 2:50:56 PM   
match2u


Posts: 131
Joined: 11/15/2004
Status: offline


wel spoken words dark angel - like so often - smile -

god damn love you for your words


petra
(white snowflake in the ghetto)

(in reply to darkinshadows)
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RE: calling a girl out ... your opinions? - 1/28/2005 3:20:56 PM   
SwitchNCgal


Posts: 79
Joined: 11/16/2004
Status: offline 		personally being called anything but Sir, or (while going out as a girl until such time i'm doing it permantely) Ma'am gets a seething retort that has made many a girl cry and i've chewed out managers for having disrespectful employees that make people go to a business that is more professional. Now that is on a professional level.

On a personal level I only let those girls that know me very well to call me anything other then "Sam," "Sammy," or "Samantha". Otherwise i expect to be treated with respect and that means SIr, Ma'am, or Mr/Miss (insert name here) or an "I'm sorry what was you name again? I'm bad with names" <-------used this alot because that is me to a T!!

I see any name like honey, lilone, girl, sweetie, etc.... something that shows some kind of attachment or level of friendship and trust between me and the one saying it. Regardless of context.

_____________________________

A switch gal that needs a little special help now and then and is stuck in the southeast.

(in reply to match2u)
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RE: calling a girl out ... your opinions? - 1/28/2005 8:42:46 PM   
slavedesires


Posts: 669
Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline 		deleted the girl has permission for perogative on a rare occsion
for the post written 2/1/05

< Message edited by slavedesires -- 2/2/2005 1:00:16 AM >

(in reply to SwitchNCgal)
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RE: calling a girl out ... your opinions? - 1/29/2005 1:27:34 AM   
sterlingsweet


Posts: 180
Joined: 8/10/2004
Status: offline 		I run along the lines of happypervert.
I find it disrespectful and demeaning for a Dom
to use such words when contacting a stranger of interest.

I think when contacting a stranger, one should refer to
this person using their chosen handle. I am not his sub,
so there is No dynamic there.

Another Tic of mine, since the subject is at hand,
I do not like any Dom contacting me (unless he is a friend),
for I clearly state in my profile, that I seek a Domina.

One time a guy wrote me and said...."hi babydoll I want to Dominate you and rock your world, respond to me at once!!!! WTF????

_____________________________

Who Let the Dommes Out?? (I'd like to Thank them).
~Wink

Peace Out...Sterlingsweet

I finally got my cuffs,
I hope to use them soon ~wink

(in reply to slavedesires)
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RE: calling a girl out ... your opinions? - 1/29/2005 7:17:43 AM   
MizSuz


Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

2. how could she find "lilone" or "girl" so deplorable (when i find another Dom, who doesn't know me, calling me slut, bitch or servant more deplorable than just "girl" or "lilone")



For many people this kind of familiarity, without the established relationship, is demeaning or condescending (I'm one of them). This is the school of thought I've been taught for a long time in various professional venues and by my parents.

It's not just about the word/s, it's about what they insinuate. They say "this person assumes they have a position of power over me that I have not given them leave to assume." I feel the same way about "honey" "sweetie" "baby" and the like. It's just too familiar. I usually assume the person using the terms hasn't enough home training (and that assumption short circuits any affront I may feel about it).

Why would I want to give myself to someone who hasn't acquired enough of their own home training? Of course, I'm not submissive, but I think this issue transcends D/s. If there is not an established dynamic then good manners should be the default. It's simply not good manners to assume a familiarity that has not been given.

Although it sounds to me like the person in question could have used a few lessons in manners herself. Being defensive is not justification to abandon said manners and is quite telling in itself.



_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to slavedesires)
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RE: calling a girl out ... your opinions? - 1/29/2005 7:30:15 AM   
Moleculor


Posts: 189
Joined: 5/23/2004
Status: offline 		If she stated that your master was not sadistic enough for her, why did he continue to write?

Honestly, you don't have to answer that one. I could understand a second email if the entire rest of the email was promising.

However, I have to agree with her response about the "girl" names and such. To some, being called "girl" by someone who is contacting her from a position of being a "dominant" on a kink-personals site is tantamount to calling her "my slave". It would be like me walking into some BDSM chat room, and some girl calling me 'Sir' just because I use proper punctuation. By calling someone something other than their name, you either assume far too much about them, or give the impression of assuming far too much about them. Without the benefit of voice/tone to add meaning to your words, refrain from "pet" names, ESPECIALLY when initially contacting someone.

Also, who the in the bleedin' nine hells of Baalor are you to suggest that just because she isn't kowtowing to your dominant, she isn't submissive? He is not her dominant, she has not been collared by him and she has not, insofar as I can see, been in any submissive position, such as being tied to the bed, with your dominant. Until she agrees to be submissive to your dominant, your dominant is not her dominant, so she can be as respectful or disrespectful as she feels like, and still call herself whatever the hell she feels like. She is, in all probability, most likely a submissive to people she submits to and nothing more. Much like every other sane person who's into BDSM. Only stupid people submit to anyone.

(in reply to sterlingsweet)
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RE: calling a girl out ... your opinions? - 1/29/2005 6:35:32 PM   
Wolfspet


Posts: 143
Joined: 1/11/2004
Status: offline 		LOL Mol, mark your calendar..
we actually agree.

(in reply to Moleculor)
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RE: calling a girl out ... your opinions? - 1/30/2005 11:16:02 AM   
hornyliltoy


Posts: 19
Joined: 1/4/2005
Status: offline 		What puzzels me is why this mattered to you OR your master. You shouldn't have dignified her response with a response. She was obviously just trying to get a rise out of you. You played right into it. Why should it matter what she says. Ignore her. She's a non-issue in your lives. You're obviously happy with your master. Why are you needing with any approval or aquiesence from a stranger? Move on. Don't make the matter worse by continuing it. The more you respond the more power you give up to her. Also, the way you're arguing with her is demonstrating the same behavior your deploring her for. You need to check that. Your master is right. You, as a sub, are not to be telling anyone anything unless your master specifically instructs you to. Otherwise let up to him to decide what happens next. Now, having said that, you'll notice I'm a switch that leans towards the dominant. I have experience at being dom but none at being sub mainly, to tell you the truth, because I haven't met the dom I'd submit to yet. The only reason I call myself a switch is that every time I dom I'm jelous of what the sub is getting from me. So I do have a right to speak out on the subject. I keep hope out that the right dom will come around that will inspire me to sub. I have met recently someone who has potential. Unfortunately her time is taken up by subs she already has in her stable. I am finding myself respecting her views though. Also, with all due respect to your dom, we all have our different ways. I'm merely saying because you asked. I'm supposing you wanted honesty.

(in reply to slavedesires)
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RE: calling a girl out ... your opinions? - 1/30/2005 6:18:08 PM   
soulreaver67


Posts: 12
Joined: 1/30/2005
Status: offline 		I have to say, that I am guilty of referring to female submissives as "Babygirl," "precious,", "little one,", and "sweetness"... even if I've never met them before. I did not realize this would be considered demeaning or condescending... hmmmmm.

It merely is the way I deal with people. I love all people (in particular, women :) )... and truthfully, I considered it a term of endearment, compassion... not of disrespect.

Very interesting, from you all.

If God looked at you and called you "Babygirl," with only the best of intentions... would you be insulted by it? I think if you are insulted by it, when it is meant correctly, then you are stuck on pretense.

Thank you all for this insightful input

SoulReaver
"You Are My Angel of Death, My SoulReaver."-- The Guardian

(in reply to hornyliltoy)
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RE: calling a girl out ... your opinions? - 1/30/2005 6:24:03 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

If God looked at you and called you "Babygirl," with only the best of intentions... would you be insulted by it? I think if you are insulted by it, when it is meant correctly, then you are stuck on pretense.


If My God looked at me and called me "Babygirl," He would be a false God. IMO

My God would not look down on me and call me 'babygirl'... because He knows that I am not that person.

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to soulreaver67)
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RE: calling a girl out ... your opinions? - 1/31/2005 9:25:08 AM   
stormiKnightBEAR


Posts: 306
Joined: 3/14/2004
Status: offline 		have to agree with Angel on all points of this post.

There are no acceptable time for anyone other than Master
to call stormi "girl". Even Master wouldn't be pleased.

Master does address stormi sometimes by saying "girl, yada yada."
and stormi has gotten used to it. But HE is the only one.

KEEP up the good words Angel, you're fabulous!!!

stormi
property of Master Bear

_____________________________

owned white silk slave of TEMJI aka Master Bear

PROUD TO BE TEXAN AND AMERICAN BY BIRTH~
GOD BLESS TEXAS AND THE U.S.A !!!!

(in reply to darkinshadows)
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RE: calling a girl out ... your opinions? - 2/1/2005 9:17:57 AM   
slavedesires


Posts: 669
Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline 		i so appreciate everyone's totally different input on this post.
Beach Mystress and dark~angel, thank you.
Molecular, nice information, thank you.
Hornyliltoy, interesting!

Actually, posts can spin off and weave into different notions and ideas and assumptions, even get hyjacked and brouhgt back to the actual question posed initially. The joy of reading them.
i had to decypher the actual answers to my original questions, but i got a general idea.
This post even got a response from soulreaver67, welcome to the posting boards SoulReaver.

Just to clarify, it was "she" who kept coming back until she called me a psychobitch. Then why would i or He dignify a response?

The actual failure (i and Master are the exact ones who know what it was) on my part has been turned into a great success and i must say, that unless one gets up and focuses on a healthy journey after such a failure, they will never understand that many times great failures can bring about great changes and great victories.

i am reminded of the quote by Helen Keller: "When one door of happiness closes, another opens: but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has opened for us."

great interaction A/all

Master Damian's shy



_____________________________

i speak only my personal opinion, sometimes O/ours.

"i am the keeper of fragile things and i have kept what is indisolvable."
....the greatest gift.....vulnerability

(in reply to slavedesires)
Profile   Post #: 20
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