Some thoughts on punishment (Full Version)

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ExtremeOwnerIL -> Some thoughts on punishment (10/25/2006 6:10:19 AM)

I punished my property last night. Fifty strokes on her cunt with the pain stick. The number is significant in that it is the number of Kegels she is to perform each time she travels to or from work. She had forgotten and I felt it was time to apply a more effective "reminder" as well as settling the debt that she owed me for not having performed them.

Punishment is a detachment, yet odd sort of closeness. Detachment in that I disconnect the sympathetic connection and some of the empathic connection. She knows that I am there, she knows I am FATHER at that point, that I am OWNER, that I am GOD - meting out the discipline that she deserves. She can feel that almost as a child feels surrounded by a parent figure, even when being punished. Yet there is a detachment, for this is not fun, this is punishment.

And after, there is the appropriate sort of "aftercare" - I hesitate to use that word, because it is not to imply the "blankies and cuddles" that most seem to associate with that word. Rather, aftercare from punishment, to me, is the immediate followup. Detached or more "paternal", it all depends on the punishment, the reason and the appropriate effect that I want both punishment and "aftercare" to have.

Last night was a stern aftercare - fifty strokes of the pain stick on the cunt, full hard strokes similar to what I would apply to her ass required a harsher sort of aftercare. She made it to about 25 and she was writhing on the bed in pain - and in guilt. Yet there is a freeing when I punish her, because she knows that when it's done, it's done. Learn the lesson, accept the responsibility of accounts being settled and move on.

Punishment was something I had a hard time dealing with at first, but now I accept its appropriate role in our dynamic. All part of me owning my property.



Kalira -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/25/2006 6:12:50 AM)

I read this and my legs clenched together. I know how she feels...that shit fucking hurts, and it's not something that one forgets very easily either.



Lashra -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/25/2006 6:23:25 AM)

Your God? I doubt it. Sounds more like your ego believes its God. As a Domme I can't say that I agree with how you handled the aftercare but whatever floats your boat. If she allows you to treat her that way then its on her.

I punish my own sub but I always give him what I consider proper aftercare and that means forgiveness and reassurance. Of course everyone handles their property differently. But I think if this continues you will find that eventually she will either loose respect for you or cease to be a person, she will become one of those robot females that some men dream about.[:'(]

~Lashra



Celeste43 -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/25/2006 6:27:45 AM)

Doesn't seem to address why she forgot.

Is work extremely stressful, is the drive home very tricky? Seems to me that if it's the drive itself then you are telling her she has to focus on the exercise and not on driving. Hardly a safe thing to do.

I kegel in the car, but while he drives, not while I do. I can't deal with focusing on the kegel routine, 5 second slow build, hold for 5, release over 5 and also pay full attention to the road. So for me, if I were punished for trying to get home safe, I'd be resentful and distrustful which would not bode well for the future of the relationship.

Now if it's that her boss spends the day cursing at her and she's damn near in tears by the time she gets in the car, that is a different problem and also one that would effect driving home safely.

However if it's just that she's very busy, I think you would do better to help her organize herself so she could remember. A sheet of paper saying kegel placed on the seat so she sits on it and remembers, and then puts it back on the seat when she gets out.

Positive solutions that also address the underlying problem.



ExtremeOwnerIL -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/25/2006 6:35:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra
Your God? I doubt it. Sounds more like your ego believes its God. As a Domme I can't say that I agree with how you handled the aftercare but whatever floats your boat. If she allows you to treat her that way then its on her.

I punish my own sub but I always give him what I consider proper aftercare and that means forgiveness and reassurance. Of course everyone handles their property differently. But I think if this continues you will find that eventually she will either loose respect for you or cease to be a person, she will become one of those robot females that some men dream about.[:'(]

~Lashra



*smile* A euphemism which I'm sure you can understand - there are those moments when we transcend into a spiritual realm - the discussion on body worship can certainly apply here. The best I can relate it to is becoming "GOD" although I understand that the religious connotations might offend some, such was not my intention. My apologies.

There are always moments in a dynamic when one approach vs. another is appropriate. Since we've been together, we've found that our flow goes in many ways, some cruel, some kind - there is always, for us, a positive ending. It may be a less "cuddles and blankies" approach than others, but my girl is the most important thing in *my* life. The balance of assurance and discipline is one we have well worked out. It is not always the same, but then, each situation is not always the same.

Thank you for the comment.
Regards,
EO



ExtremeOwnerIL -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/25/2006 6:43:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

Doesn't seem to address why she forgot.

Is work extremely stressful, is the drive home very tricky? Seems to me that if it's the drive itself then you are telling her she has to focus on the exercise and not on driving. Hardly a safe thing to do.

I kegel in the car, but while he drives, not while I do. I can't deal with focusing on the kegel routine, 5 second slow build, hold for 5, release over 5 and also pay full attention to the road. So for me, if I were punished for trying to get home safe, I'd be resentful and distrustful which would not bode well for the future of the relationship.

Now if it's that her boss spends the day cursing at her and she's damn near in tears by the time she gets in the car, that is a different problem and also one that would effect driving home safely.

However if it's just that she's very busy, I think you would do better to help her organize herself so she could remember. A sheet of paper saying kegel placed on the seat so she sits on it and remembers, and then puts it back on the seat when she gets out.

Positive solutions that also address the underlying problem.


Thank you for the comments.

Your comments on situations is exactly why each situation is different. What has happened, how has this been dealt with in the past, what is the purpose of this exercise, why is it important, etc. All those things enter into the equation, and at the end of the day, the direct approach was appropriate and needed. The punishment given was one that followed several reminders, a note in the car with "50" on it, and my understanding of why she forgot. Simply put, it's a change in behavior for her, to rememeber details of when to do so, and why.

One interesting note is that sometimes the corporal method works best on some, and not on others. A submissive that I had a wonderful relationship with worked well with simple writings. Some work with good conversation. My girl now works best with direct physical punishment. Call it her need for atonement, her need for the pain - these work well with her. She has commented to me that punishments allow her to "let go" of the stress - almost a cleansing.

Regards,
EO



Kalira -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/25/2006 6:50:48 AM)

Hmm, maybe I am just an oddball, but I really saw nothing wrong in what he did. My late husband AND the one I am with now are (were ) both brutal in their punishments; unemotional and detatched; a fact that caused me to never forget them and the reasons why, and never try to incur them.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/25/2006 7:38:03 AM)

I might also suggest that she be allowed to do 10 sets of 5 or 5 sets of 10 through the day- it might make it seem less daunting than having to remember an entire block of time to do "50" which sounds like a big number when planning out one's day.  Since kegels can be done anywhere at anytime, breaking it down into smaller sets can allow them to be seamlessly incorporated.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_611292/mpage_2/key_punishment/tm.htm#611778
Punishment is Deceptive

http://www.collarchat.com/m_597685/mpage_1/key_punishment/tm.htm#597689
Talking Vs Corporal Punishment

http://www.collarchat.com/m_572243/mpage_1/key_punishment/tm.htm#572280
Question for female subs on punishment

http://www.collarchat.com/m_18608/mpage_1/key_punishment/tm.htm#18608
Punishment and Discipline

http://www.collarchat.com/m_74162/mpage_1/key_punishment/tm.htm#74162
Training?  Punishment?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_84734/mpage_1/key_punishment/tm.htm#84734
Punishment vs Play

http://www.collarchat.com/m_146151/mpage_1/key_punishment/tm.htm#146151
What is the difference between punishment and discipline?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_374557/mpage_1/key_punishment/tm.htm#374557
Testing, being broken, regular punishment, etc, etc....

http://www.collarchat.com/m_523257/mpage_1/key_punishment/tm.htm#523257
Discipline & Punishment

http://www.collarchat.com/m_495126/mpage_1/key_punishment/tm.htm#495126
On punishment



Celeste43 -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/25/2006 7:42:28 AM)

See what happens when you don't give full info, we make assumptions to fill in the gap.
Personally I could never have consented to be distracted while driving but I'm white knuckled at all times in the car.



ExtremeOwnerIL -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/25/2006 7:47:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

See what happens when you don't give full info, we make assumptions to fill in the gap.
Personally I could never have consented to be distracted while driving but I'm white knuckled at all times in the car.


Oh, that's quite alright. Explaining everything would lead to too long of a post. I always appreciate good conversation, even when asked direct questions.

Why so white knuckled when driving?

Regards,
EO



gretchenS -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/25/2006 8:01:57 AM)

Voltare here:  Well, as opposed to the naysayers, it sounds like what you´re doing works for you, though I don´t think it would work for most people.
 
As suggested already, it´s worth considering a more effective schedual?  Obviously, you don´t need any excuse or reason to punish your slave if you wish, this isn´t a democracy.  However, if the focus is to genuinely improve her exercise routine (rather than taking the opportunity to swing the pain stick) a look at the agenda you set for her would probably yield more effective results.
 
As for your feelings on punishment, though I understand why it was confused with Egotistical statements, this is the essence of why many enjoy dominating.  As a dominant, I enjoy the feeling of control, and exercising that control (when necessary.)  I´ve heard all too often that 'a good Dom only punishes His because He must, and should never take pleasure from T/their suffering.'  As a sadist, I do draw a line between punishment and enjoyment, even if their is no difference between the end result (paddle to ass.)  Both activities have their place.  I only suggest to be wary not to create artificial situations to find excuses to punish, as it can have strong negative impacts on your property's mental and emotional health and well being.



ownedgirlie -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/25/2006 8:20:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

See what happens when you don't give full info, we make assumptions to fill in the gap.


Not necessarily.  I receive corporal punishment when necessary (not as often anymore) but that does not mean that discussion, lessons and analysis are excluded.  I think people have an assumption that a "beating" is all that occurs, and maybe that is the case for some, but not for all.



ExtremeOwnerIL -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/25/2006 8:29:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gretchenS
 I only suggest to be wary not to create artificial situations to find excuses to punish, as it can have strong negative impacts on your property's mental and emotional health and well being.


Setting up property for failure is a sure way to fail at any sort of training. It's a futile endeavor for both parties and leads to frustration and anger. I see punishment as a necessary evil - one to be used when appropriate.

Interestingly enough, as I've mentioned before, the physical aspects are a positive influence on my girl's emotional and mental health. It took me awhile to accept that and to emotionally deal with the need to separate the pleasure from a sadistic POV and the necessity from an Owner's POV.  I find now that I can, which is the need for a detachment from the connections I normally form during a sadistic session.

Thank you for the comment,
Regards,
EO

PS. I very much appreciate you sharing about your feelings on Dominance. The emotional/spiritual aspect is always so hard to describe, and yet it reaches to the very core of wiitid.



akisha -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/25/2006 9:33:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalira

Hmm, maybe I am just an oddball, but I really saw nothing wrong in what he did. My late husband AND the one I am with now are (were ) both brutal in their punishments; unemotional and detatched; a fact that caused me to never forget them and the reasons why, and never try to incur them.


I actually agree with Kalira. I saw nothing wrong with this, other then the thought of 50 strikes on my soft spots making me feel a little ill, quick corporal punishment seems to work best with me.

On our first full weekend together, I forgot myself and did something bad, and for that i was caned (first time ever) but I make sure never to make the same mistake again.

During Sir seemed very distant, but when it was over all was forgiven and i was reassured that everything was ok.

But like everyone else has stated, everyone has their own way of dealing with things. A few Dominant friends of mine thought my punishment was over the top, but they aren't the ones I agreed to obey and Sir is, so what he deems as adequate is.



Mavis -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/25/2006 5:35:17 PM)

i do have one question.. do You do kegels?  the point being, they are very distracting, and although a lot of people advocate doing them while driving, it isn't really as easy as it sounds, depending on her learning style.  

(A Kinesthetic learner will be more attentive to driving if they also have muscular contractions going on, while a visual learner will be put in a state of suspended animation visually because her neurology doesn't process muscular and visual input dually, but in cycle patterns, shutting off one, then the other alternatively.)

Males can and should do kegels,  it enhances the muscular base and adds much to his self control, and even his own perception of his length and girth, because the base has more support.  It's also known to enable males to have multiple orgasms, while delaying ejaculation.  (2nd link)

http://www.themarriagebed.com/pages/biology/male/male-kegels.shtml
http://www.multiorgasmic.com/penthouse.htm

This info isn't given to judge Your choice of training or dicipline, but only to help You more fully understand the task assigned.  :)



ExtremeOwnerIL -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/25/2006 6:51:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis
i do have one question.. do You do kegels?  the point being, they are very distracting, and although a lot of people advocate doing them while driving, it isn't really as easy as it sounds, depending on her learning style.  
...
This info isn't given to judge Your choice of training or dicipline, but only to help You more fully understand the task assigned.  :)


Thank you for your comment and curiousity. To answer your question, yes I do Kegels on a regular basis, including while driving, for the exact reasons you listed. I've also found they can help with a Zen like state - which can be useful in long traffic jams which my area is subject to.

Regards,
EO



TemptingNviceSub -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/25/2006 7:32:36 PM)

I understand what you say, when you said this is the way she needs to have punishment..but IMO..it seems awfully extreme for such, IMO (again) minor infraction..now if she refused to do kegals and then told you to go ^&^%^#&*((%(*&!$ in front of friends and family then 50 strokes it be..otherwise.........Im thinkin your sadistic side took over your Dominant side..Tempting



Hercuckslave -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/25/2006 7:43:59 PM)

i agree with Kalira.

I see nothing wrong with the manner of punishment.  I am Mistress' slave.  If I displease her, it is her right to punish me in any way she sees fit.  Nowhere in our contract does it say that she has to give me "aftercare" for punishment.  Her responsibility to me is to protect my health (emotional, spiritual, physical), safety, and well being.  How she chooses to do that is her call.  Period.

M's m



CrappyDom -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/25/2006 8:07:57 PM)

I just hoped he wiped his screen clean after he posted this.



angelic -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/25/2006 8:18:09 PM)

Personally, i would hate to 'read' what would have happened if she had wrecked your car. [&:]



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