RE: "Christian" BDSM?

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SirLordTrainer -> RE: "Christian" BDSM? (10/28/2006 5:11:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mavis No wonder some of us need beat! Again, thanks for your input mavis, adding further I dont suppose your in that category, or are you? ;)

mountainpet -> RE: "Christian" BDSM? (10/28/2006 8:50:04 AM)
"Thanks to all who offered their thoughts and opinions on this topic. I just see it as on one side of the fence they are wagging fingers and thumping bibles in our faces about how wrong and lewd it is in that which we do in BDSM, yet while others throw a label such as christian D/s on it as if to clean it up into their view of perhaps a 'kinder gentler' BDSM. I dont know and maybe Im wrong but that seems hypocritical to Me." Christians vary so much that it is as difficult to stereotype them as it is to stereotype the "bdsm'ers". Yes, there are lots of Christians who wag fingers and thump Bibles, but they are actually not in the majority. It seems so, because they get all the publicity- they are in your face, and loud. They are also not representative of Christians as a whole. When I first discovered Christian bdsm, thanks to my Master, I thought it would be "bdsm lite"-- and a lot of it is. However, there again, stereotypes aren't appropriate. I don't think there is anything I've seen in "regular" bdsm that I haven't seen in Christian bdsm. Admittedly, I am not extremely experienced in bdsm of any type, but I haven't found Christian bdsm to be hopelessly tame. Now, having said that, there are some generalities. First, in Christian bdsm most activities take place between husbands and wives- there are plenty of exceptions, though. Secondly, as already mentioned here, it is mostly male dom/fem sub. When there are exceptions, they are usually rationalized, like "ok, I am the Master and head of the household, but I order you to dominate me in the bedroom and dungeon." Others have already pointed out here that there is nothing in the Bible that prohibits bdsm, and there are some things in the Bible which can reasonably be interpreted as requiring it.

Mavis -> RE: "Christian" BDSM? (10/28/2006 9:59:06 AM)
wow, interesting points made.. quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster If people want to practice what they consider "Christian BDSM," I say good for them. But... It makes about as much sense to me as "Microbiologist BDSM." Edited spaceing lines out of that quote, i hope it doesn't alter the tone or readablility. i agree! It's right up there with "bananna eating BDSMers" or "BDSMers afraid of clowns", in all cases, the co-joined labels are not mutually exclusive. Only because of the religion does it imply a causal thing. To be fair, i might assume the same thing if someone said they were a buddhist BDSMer also, even though they might not be practicing BDSM because of their buddism, but in addition to. There are definately "christian BDSMers" who are christian and balance what they feel is a dochotomy, and then others who are both, and wrestle with it and suffer guilt, and still others who practice BDSM or at least P/E as part of their faith practices, believing it sacred. In a way, there is No reason to add the tag "christian" to wiiwd, Except.. to let others who may be conflicted know that it's ok, do some further research, and settle guilt. For once, we have a group of christians telling people something is ok, rather than shaking fingers, and it's so atypical, it surprises and confuses people.

candystripper -> RE: "Christian" BDSM? (10/28/2006 10:02:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirLordTrainer As someone who does believe in a higher power and spirituality, although it has nothing to do with My B&D or what I do behind closed doors. I get a bit confused when I hear some folks talk about 'Christian D/s or christian kinksters'.. With society and the church pretty much looking at us and our lifestyle as 'obscene and immoral', Id be interested in hearing others opinions on just exactly what this is and/or what it means to them. Thank You for asking so respectfully, SLT. i am a devote Catholic and a submissive. My spirituality infuses my whole life with ethics, mores, behaviors, etc. E.g., i would not play or have sex with a married man. Period. Adultery is forbidden by the 7th Commandment. (Exodus 20.) i never saw any disparity between my interest in D/s and my spiritual life. candystripper

Mavis -> RE: "Christian" BDSM? (10/28/2006 10:09:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain Bill Moyers’ PBS series, the Power of Myths, illustrated the similarities and effects of historical and current religious myths. A story that we base a culture on gives order and comfort to the people in a way that enhances the society while putting lesser emphasis on the hardships of the real circumstances. If a slave believes she is part of the larger plot, she feels vindicated by her sacrifices and identifies as the heroine who endures much to reach the nirvana of the happy ending. Understanding the power of myths is itself power. A great story comforts and excites. If I can tell the story of democracy, communism, Christianity, numerology, the Hale-Bopp Comet, head banging music, yoga, low carb or M/s well, I can find slaves. Agreed again. i realise that if everything i believe is a fallacy, it's still a great management tool for someone to use on me. my standing belief that it's "right" for me to submit to one and that there is more guiding His hand than just whim will allow me to trust a bit more, and give me reason to try a bit harder, probably. It would also, as mentioned, make it easier for me to find contentment in my lot because i would have faith in the higher power having allowed or chosen it for me. The net result for me is that i'm happy if it's true, and i'm just as happy if it turns out to be not true, but i won't know til i die, so i'll have lost nothing.

HedonisticFemSub -> RE: "Christian" BDSM? (10/28/2006 10:09:12 AM)
Doesn't Catholicism mandate sex for procreation, not recreation??

MagiksSlave -> RE: "Christian" BDSM? (10/28/2006 10:11:44 AM)
I guess I should be thankfull Im jewish?? Magik's slave

Lordandmaster -> RE: "Christian" BDSM? (10/28/2006 10:19:59 AM)
They've relaxed their standards. Within the context of lawful marriage, sex is now OK as long as it is ultimately conducive to procreation. http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm (Crucial line: "Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality." "The use of infertile periods" can only mean fucking while the wife isn't ovulating.) quote: ORIGINAL: HedonisticFemSub Doesn't Catholicism mandate sex for procreation, not recreation??

Mavis -> RE: "Christian" BDSM? (10/28/2006 10:23:52 AM)
mountainpet, thank you for your comments. "Yes, there are lots of Christians who wag fingers and thump Bibles, but they are actually not in the majority. It seems so, because they get all the publicity- they are in your face, and loud. They are also not representative of Christians as a whole." i so agree. In BDSM, we have the vocal contingent that proclaims the "one true way" and yet, we know the whole of BDSM actually encompasses many variants on a theme. It's the same with christianity, the majority is much less concerned with correcting others because we have enough on our plates applying our variant. Also, like in BDSM, you realise the more you know, the more you don't know, shades of grey don't present themselves until down the hallway a bit.

ClassAct2006 -> RE: "Christian" BDSM? (10/28/2006 10:37:44 AM)
The bit I don't like about it is their view that all women on the planet should be submissive to their man even if God created that woman dominant or vanilla. Many don't get any sexual charge from it and will physically punish. I think it is a breach of the right of women to impose that on them or bring little girls up to marry at 16 submitting to a dominant husband chosen by their father to whom they expect to submit even if they're not naturally submissive. I've always felt sexually submissive and it goes well beyong what's done in bed but that's me being as I am rather than someone deciding I should submit even if it were difficult for me to do so. I'm a Catholic too and sometimes it's been slightly comforting to have my religion support my being submissive. Hedonistic Catholics compared to true puritans I suspect have always enjoyed sex which after all was invented by God, if you believe that so I'm sure he's more than happy we enjoy it.

Mavis -> RE: "Christian" BDSM? (10/28/2006 10:41:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HedonisticFemSub Doesn't Catholicism mandate sex for procreation, not recreation?? That whole thing is taken from what is referred to as "The sin of Onan".. where a guy's brother was killed, so he was told to go impregnate brothers wife to give brother an heir by proxy. He did so, but instead of jolly rocking til the end, he took it out and "spilled his seed on the ground." This is taken to be sinful because he only did her to get off, and didn't allow for pregnancy. The problem is that assumes the sin was enjoying sex without procreation, but really, the sin here is selfish behavior and deceit. It's basically the same if he had taken his brothers blankets, claiming they were part of the will. It was that he took something of his brothers and lied about his motive. It would have been perfectly legal for Onan to have taken his brothers wife, and also his brothers blanket, and enjoyed them both. But He didn't want to raise children that would be biologically his, but would carry their fathers name and get land of Onans brother, and be firstborn to any children Onan would have with another woman. The true sin of Onan is to be a user, NOT "to enjoy orgasm without creating babies". The Mis-interpretation of this alone has caused untold heartache.. following that line of thinking would also mean sex beyond menopause is immoral.

sublizzie -> RE: "Christian" BDSM? (10/28/2006 10:49:50 AM)
Not all Christians believe the man must be dominant and the woman submissive. There are some who believe the bible teaches that women should be dominant and men submissive. Just depends on which verses are used and how they are interpreted. As the owner of a BDSM Christian group, I find it intriguing to see how people use the bible to support their own views. 'Course I do the same thing, but that's part of being human.

Slavehandsome -> RE: "Christian" BDSM? (10/28/2006 1:24:51 PM)
I'm curious, did they use Waterboarding in the Spanish Inquisition?

xunderyoux -> RE: "Christian" BDSM? (10/28/2006 1:32:53 PM)
My Husband and i are both Christian and we find the religious part of our lives mixes pretty well with the D/s side. As with any group of people you will have differences in views, much like in bdsm itself. But really when you think of it, Christianity is a good introductory course, lol.

Lady Alaria -> RE: "Christian" BDSM? (10/28/2006 2:32:48 PM)
-Quick reply- Honestly haven't read the whole thread, but wanted to comment before the thought dribbled out my head(plus I have to go soon). Christianity covers a _whole_ lot of ground. Yeah there are the neocons and their ridiculous hate-mongering, but I don't think this describes the majority of those who consider themselves christian. Most I know just have faith in a higher power and wish to serve. Some follow certain passages/parts of the bible and not others. Very few follow all of it(surgery is strictly forbidden for instance). Many realize that a lot of it was written by secular authorities or that it was teachings that were appropriate for the time period. Many just try to follow the basic teachings of christ. Many haven't read more than a few verses out of the bible. Many have funny, incomplete ideas about certain things that they will defend to the death, but are pretty open-minded in other areas. There are feminist christians, gay/lesbian christians, drug-using christians, and bdsm christians. I ahve nothing against christians as a whole, just the ones who've decided their faith is an excuse to persecute and/or pester. As for 'christian D/s' as a manner of self-identifieing/advertising, it seems just a way of narrowing down your search within the kink. They might be scared of all us big bad pagan types who have called the scene our home.

candystripper -> RE: "Christian" BDSM? (10/28/2006 5:08:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lady Alaria -Quick reply- Honestly haven't read the whole thread, but wanted to comment before the thought dribbled out my head(plus I have to go soon). Christianity covers a _whole_ lot of ground. Yeah there are the neocons and their ridiculous hate-mongering, but I don't think this describes the majority of those who consider themselves christian. Most I know just have faith in a higher power and wish to serve. Some follow certain passages/parts of the bible and not others. Very few follow all of it(surgery is strictly forbidden for instance). Many realize that a lot of it was written by secular authorities or that it was teachings that were appropriate for the time period. Many just try to follow the basic teachings of christ. Many haven't read more than a few verses out of the bible. Many have funny, incomplete ideas about certain things that they will defend to the death, but are pretty open-minded in other areas. There are feminist christians, gay/lesbian christians, drug-using christians, and bdsm christians. I ahve nothing against christians as a whole, just the ones who've decided their faith is an excuse to persecute and/or pester. As for 'christian D/s' as a manner of self-identifieing/advertising, it seems just a way of narrowing down your search within the kink. They might be scared of all us big bad pagan types who have called the scene our home. i completely agree, except, i have not perceived any linkage in the media or elsewhere between Paganism and D/s. Otherwise i think You have it nailed. Many millions are "devote Catholics" and some them are just asswipes. i should know; i'm related to some. candystripper

SirLordTrainer -> RE: "Christian" BDSM? (10/29/2006 5:36:32 AM)
Interesting view.. thanks for sharing

SirLordTrainer -> RE: "Christian" BDSM? (10/29/2006 6:19:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: candystripper Thank You for asking so respectfully, SLT. i am a devote Catholic and a submissive. My spirituality infuses my whole life with ethics, mores, behaviors, etc. your most welcome candy and I appreciate your taking the time to present your view. I think this thread has invoked some interesting opinions.

zumala -> RE: "Christian" BDSM? (10/29/2006 6:52:25 AM)
I suppose the lable "Christian BDSM" might be used just for those who want to search for people who may hold beliefs similar to their own. Sort of like the thread where BDSM for blacks was discussed. "Birds of a feather flock together" the saying goes. I'm Christian. I look at the Church and many people who say they are Christian, and... I don't buy it. I am not a mindless sheep (although I was raised to be one), so I read the Bible, I think, I listen, and I weigh what I hear. Did you know that the Bible actually says you should think for yourself and accept only what is good? I think the major problem with Christianity today (in general, this does not include everyone) is that they don't think. They just accept what their pastor tells them. They also do for themselves instead of emulating Christ and looking to love others. This naturally messes things up royally. As for Christianity and BDSM, Pup and I have been discussing this recently. There was a time when I fled the life because I could not reconsile it with what I believed. I have since begun to really examine things for myself, and I do think that a lot of BDSM practice can coincide with Christian faith. I used to be a Bible thumper and an arguer, but I learned better than that about nine years ago. Now I am busy seeking and learning, realizing that I am responsible only for myself. What you choose to do is your business. The sooner everyone, Christian and non-Christian alike, learn this, the better we'll all like each other. [;)] zuma

SirLordTrainer -> RE: "Christian" BDSM? (10/29/2006 3:58:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zumala They also do for themselves instead of emulating Christ and looking to love others. This naturally messes things up royally. As for Christianity and BDSM, Pup and I have been discussing this recently. There was a time when I fled the life because I could not reconsile it with what I believed. I have since begun to really examine things for myself, and I do think that a lot of BDSM practice can coincide with Christian faith. I used to be a Bible thumper and an arguer, but I learned better than that about nine years ago. Now I am busy seeking and learning, realizing that I am responsible only for myself. What you choose to do is your business. The sooner everyone, Christian and non-Christian alike, learn this, the better we'll all like each other. [;)] zuma I agree with your view as well thanks for sharing your opinion. Also, when you say 'they' do you mean christians as a whole, the majority or just a select few? Just curious.... Adding also, Im glad you sorted out things within yourself.

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