911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (Full Version)

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Real0ne -> 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 1:31:10 AM)

i suppose this has been hashed out many times on here but for those of you who have not thought about 911 recently there is a host of information that continues to come out regarding 911 and the circumstances surrounding the 911 terrorist attack.

The following 2 sites contain mounds of information that has been collected by several parties, much of this has never shown up on any mainstream media news.   i find this troubling.

So, i clicked on this link:
http://st911.org/  
Then on the left side just below "beginners start here"
i clicked on: "BelowGroundSurface"
i skipped the "press for truth" link and went directly to "911 mysteries" link and several others below it and eventually worked my way back to "press for the truth".  Now that i have seen them all i am happy i viewed them in the order i did...  it had more meaning imo.

i got into this because i had and still have several issues with the way those towers came down. i am happy to see that i am not alone.

To those who take the time to view these documentaries, you may be interested in paying particular attention to the pictures of the large steel I beams and channels from the buildings core that were pulled out of the wreckage.

Here are a couple more interesting links, first timeline, a guy who pulls lots of facts together and last the testimony of the guy who they pulled out of the fallen wreckage who saved many others.

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeperiod=1979%20-%200:05am%2011%20Sept%202001&timeline=complete_911_timeline

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=4380137365762802294

i am not posting this as an endorsement but to share with you what i have found on the subject in my attempts to get some kind of closure and hopefully it will help those of you who had similar issues along those lines.







Paradoxy -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 1:52:35 AM)

Anything I ever tell my buddies who talk about Freemasons, Moon-landings, JFK, etc...

There is no conspiracy.

Conspiracies' survival require one thing.  People have to keep their mouths shut. 

Ask yourself something:
"At what point have I told something to someone something or someone else told me something and it didn't eventually come out?"

The correct answer should be "never".  Humans are completely unable to do this task.  Massive or even small conspiracies require that everyone involved be able to keep a secret.  Truth be told, most mafias in American History are always exposed by one of the top administrators of the crimes being committed.  Of course, this is dependant on plea bargaining, but the point remains the same.



Zensee -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 4:37:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paradoxy

There is no conspiracy.



I take it you mean there was no conspiracy in this case, owing to the scale. Or are you saying that in the course of human history there has never been a successful conspiracy? Keeping the lid on a plot involving dozens or hundreds of people is not very likely, that is true. But a conspiracy can still function in less than complete secrecy. And large forces can coordinate and operate through disfuse systems like cells.

Keeping the number of participants down is one way to minimise exposure. Rigorous discipline and enforcement of the ranks is another. Redirection and misinformation is another security measure. Ridicule and denial are, of course, stock in trade as well. ;)
0



kazinja -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 5:12:14 AM)

Thanks, RealOne, for sharing this important information in such an open-minded way. The Roderiguez video was most impressive and for the rest: I had just a glance and I'll need a lot of time to digest it all. We are not eager believers of Conspiracy Theories, but there's no way to escape the impression that your government is putting too much effort in covering up things where there's supposedly nothing to hide. Why all this secrecy, why these decades of moratoria on information that should be available to everyone?

To Paradoxy:
[Quote: "there is no conspiracy"]
Isn't that a paradox?
For a conspiracy to be a successful conspiracy, it has to be unknown to all but a few insiders.
For a statement to be scientific, it must be disprovable (according to Popper)
In order to be able to know if a successful conspiracy exists, I have to have knowledge about it, in which case it isn't a successful conspiracy anymore by definition.
So theoretically, though we have a way of knowing unsuccesful conspiracies, we don't have a way to know successful ones, so it is impossible to make such a statement.

Greetings

Kazinja / Ronald



Arpig -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 5:33:47 AM)

the thread title is "911 - Al-Queda or Hoax?"
The answer to that is simple: Al-Queda





Rule -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 5:37:36 AM)

Hoax.



sissifytoserve -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 5:46:10 AM)

Uh...oh.

Don't you DARE QUESTION 9-11 or wether or not it was "al quaida's fault".

How dare you question what the Bush administration wants you to beleive.!!!

You must be with the terrrrorist!!!!!!!


The power of nightmares

The politics of terror and the ruling elite.

The rise of the power of FEAR


Part one:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1002626006461047517&q=power+of+nightmares

Part Two

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7930933565201168&q=power+of+nightmares

Part Three

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3649090417189127240&q=power+of+nightmares




Anyone who cares to think for themselves just has to ask themselves ONE qustion about 9-11.

WHO BENEFITS the MOST from "terrorism"?



Level -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 5:59:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

the thread title is "911 - Al-Queda or Hoax?"
The answer to that is simple: Al-Queda





Agreed. Totally.



JohnSteed1967 -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 6:01:21 AM)

Oh I definatly think majority of it was Hoax, I definatly think that the US Government funded it, coordinated it, and allowed it. Now did it happen yes, did people die yes. But It was no more an act of agression by radical islam than the Gulf of Tonkin was an attack by the vietnamese people.

Tonkin, was a lie perptrated by the Johnson administration to get the us deeply involved in a war it had no business in. Rember George Bush, "Weapons on Mass Destruction in Iraq"



sissifytoserve -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 6:08:12 AM)

Lets not forget those fake "terror alerts"

Bin werewolf is gonna get ya!! BOOGA BOOGA!!!!

Get your duct-tape and plastic ready.

FEAR...FEAR..FEAR..FEAR..FEAR.

The main tool of politicians today.





Level -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 6:22:04 AM)

From Matt Taibii, frequent contributor to Rolling Stone and alternet:
 
" I have no doubt that every time one of those Loose Change dickwads opens his mouth, a Republican somewhere picks up five votes. "
 
Not saying anyone on this thread is a dickwad, but I do find some value in Taibii's statement, about how the far outness of some beliefs affects things.




sissifytoserve -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 6:38:30 AM)

Who gives a CRAP what Matt Taibii says.

The most FAR out thing to me...is how 3 Steel frame buildings (One that wasn't even hit by a plane) collapsed on Sept. 11th due to "fire".

What a bunch of crap.



WyrdRich -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 6:52:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

the thread title is "911 - Al-Queda or Hoax?"
The answer to that is simple: Al-Queda





Agreed. Totally.



     Me too.



Real0ne -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 8:13:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
the thread title is "911 - Al-Queda or Hoax?"
The answer to that is simple: Al-Queda

Agreed. Totally.

    Me too.


Frankly i was not expecting to much in the way of comments on this thread and mostly just posted it as an information source so as long as you all are commenting why not include a few links to support your position?  or at a minimum tell us the results of your investigation.

cheers!






Paradoxy -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 8:15:32 AM)

"For a statement to be scientific, it must be disprovable (according to Popper)"

No, that's wrong.  For a statement to be scientific it must be the result of observations, measurements, and scrutiny by your scientific peers.

"..but there's no way to escape the impression that your government is putting too much effort in covering up things where there's supposedly nothing to hide."

What's more likely is some senior officials are trying to cover their own inability to govern and properly react to disasters.

"Oh I definatly think majority of it was Hoax, I definatly think that the US Government funded it, coordinated it, and allowed it."

Simply didn't happen.  Think about it for a moment...your giving credit to the same government who can't decide on school lunch programs credit for pulling off one the largest, most complex "plots" since the holocaust?  Just remind yourself the only thing that saves you from their evil is their incompetence.

"The most FAR out thing to me...is how 3 Steel frame buildings (One that wasn't even hit by a plane) collapsed on Sept. 11th due to 'fire'."

Fire...hot.  Remember those plans had jet fuel in them (and a lot).  Steel isn't that great a metal and can easily be melted.  The areas where the plans struck were fairly near the top making it easy for the buildings to fold in on themselves.  And yes, the momentum of all that weight coming down at once should be enough to crush a building that wasn't hit by the original blasts.  If anything I'm surprised more damage wasn't done outside of the buildings' parameter.



sissifytoserve -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 8:15:37 AM)

Get ready for "proof" in the way of links to FOX NEWS articles.



Level -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 8:25:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

Get ready for "proof" in the way of links to FOX NEWS articles.


LOL sis..... yeah, not like that stuff from Tales of the Illuminati.....



sissifytoserve -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 8:26:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paradoxy



Fire...hot. Remember those plans had jet fuel in them (and a lot). Steel isn't that great a metal and can easily be melted. The areas where the plans struck were fairly near the top making it easy for the buildings to fold in on themselves. And yes, the momentum of all that weight coming down at once should be enough to crush a building that wasn't hit by the original blasts. If anything I'm surprised more damage wasn't done outside of the buildings' parameter.


Really?

What about building 7 that wasn't hit by a plane? No jet fuel there.

What about the woman at the WTC hanging out of the gap where the plane went in ?


http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc1_woman.html



Gee....I guess the fire wasn't hot enough to burn her long hair...but It brought down one of the stongest buildings ever made.

I'm NOT buying it.

The ONLY thing that could have brought those buildings down..were carefully placed explosives...weeks before.

The windsor building in Spain 3 last year... burned for 2 days straight with white hot flames shooting through it and IT didnt collapse.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc_fire.htm


But 45 miknutes was enough to bring down the WTC towers...ummmmm NO.




Paradoxy -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 8:27:19 AM)

Those who cry "conspiracy" have to render their proof first along-side their arguement.

I'm framiliar with the 911 Hoax-sayers books, films, and websites.  There is some really interesting stuff there, however, its all speculation...period.

PS - I don't read or watch Fox News unless I want my daily laugh.  It's not news, its infotainment.  I don't read the news because American media is shit.



Arpig -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 8:27:43 AM)

I do think for myself. That is why I believe it was indeed a terrorist attack initiated by Al-Queda.
It is you Sissify, who is unable to think for yourself, as you clearly will believe any idiocy, as long as it includes the concept of the Government (or even better a secret cabal of shadowy ultra-powerful individuals) is lying. If I tell you the Government is lying to you about Mickey Mouse not being an actual living creature, I would not be at all surprised to see you make a post about this new evidence of the extra-planetary conspiracy



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