RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (Full Version)

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Level -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 8:30:00 AM)

1- From USA Today:

Most of what the film alleges is refuted by the evidence at hand. Anything not answered definitively by the government is interpreted by the film as proof of a coverup.
 
Among the assertions in Loose Change is that a missile hit the Pentagon even though eyewitnesses saw the jet, numerous pieces of wreckage were found including the flight recorder, and those on the flight and in its path at the Pentagon are dead.
 
There is also the claim that because jet fuel burns at up to 1,500 degrees and steel melts at 2,750 degrees, the World Trade Center's infrastructure could not have been brought down by the airliners. However, as reported by the Journal of the Minerals, Metals and Materials Society, steel loses 50% of its strength at 1,200 degrees, enough for a failure.
 
"The only thing they (the filmmakers) seem to have gotten right about the Sept. 11 attacks is the date when they occurred," says Debra Burlingame, whose brother was the pilot of American Flight 77 that crashed into the Pentagon.
 
"They aren't truth-tellers looking to save the world," she says. "They're con artists hoping to sucker conspiracy-theory paranoids or anti-government malcontents into shelling out their hard-earned dollars."

2-  9/11: Debunking the Myths

From Popular Mechanics

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html?page=1&c=y

3 - Link to ScrewLooseChange, a set of 3 MySpace videos (scroll down to the left where it says "movies"):

http://www.myspace.com/screwloosechange

Even Maddox, at Thebestpageintheuniverse site thinks Loose Change is hooey:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons






sissifytoserve -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 8:31:31 AM)

There was no "hot fire"

Explosives brought down all 3 buildings.




Paradoxy -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 8:37:18 AM)

"Gee....I guess the fire wasn't hot enough to burn her long hair...but It brought down one of the stongest buildings ever made."
 
I guess you got me there.  I can't think of a possible shop where people might change or alter photos.  It would have to take some kind of mad genius to pull that off.




sissifytoserve -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 8:37:25 AM)

Debunking the debunkers and the Popular mechanics cranks and other apologists for the Bush cabal.

http://wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com/2006/09/popular-mechanics-crank-cant-admit.html

http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Feature-Article.htm?InfoNo=009309

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2006/100806popularmechanics.htm

http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20050321052700567

http://911review.com/pm/markup/index.html

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pop_mech/reply_to_popular_mechanics.htm





Lordandmaster -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 8:38:35 AM)

I was just about to say this, and Zensee said it for me.  Thanks!

If you believe that 9/11 was not a conspiracy, then you believe Al-Qaeda was responsible.  (That's what I believe.)  And that itself was a conspiracy.  So one way or another, 9/11 was a conspiracy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paradoxy

There is no conspiracy.



I take it you mean there was no conspiracy in this case, owing to the scale. Or are you saying that in the course of human history there has never been a successful conspiracy?




sissifytoserve -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 8:38:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paradoxy

"Gee....I guess the fire wasn't hot enough to burn her long hair...but It brought down one of the stongest buildings ever made."

I guess you got me there. I can't think of a possible shop where people might change or alter photos. It would have to take some kind of mad genius to pull that off.


It was carried on all the major networks on the day of the attack...so umm..I guess the major networks cameras must be lying then.

Sorry, I cant help you with your cognitive dissonance and mental gymnastics.

The official 9-11 story is a LIE.





Paradoxy -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 8:40:45 AM)

So if I wanted to use a Fox News link (which I have NO intent on doing so) that's laughable...

However, if you want to post your arguments in favor of your side its completely acceptable to use websites like "wakeupfromyourslumber" or other names that make me giggle when I read them, that's ok and doesn't strike you as a double-standard?




Paradoxy -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 8:44:26 AM)

"It was carried on all the major networks on the day of the attack...so umm..I guess the major networks cameras must be lying then."

Ok...what camera, in what location, with what photographer took that photo?  Where can I get his contact info to talk to him personally?  I'm serious, I'll call this guy up today if you get that info.

I've never heard of this picture till now.  You'd think it would be a bigger deal if its legit, but if it is I'm giving you your oppurtunity now to derail ANY kind of proof that fire is hot.




sissifytoserve -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 8:46:24 AM)

I already gave you the links to the sources and articles...but to you they aren't "credible" .

Plus..it is up to YOU to debunk what I am saying.

I am not doing any of the work for you.




sissifytoserve -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 8:49:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paradoxy


However, if you want to post your arguments in favor of your side its completely acceptable to use websites like "wakeupfromyourslumber" or other names that make me giggle when I read them, that's ok and doesn't strike you as a double-standard?



I find that the fact you think that those buildings came down "due to fire" completely laughable.

Especially WTC building #7.





Paradoxy -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 8:51:48 AM)

The 9/11 Report is my proof...I didn't realize I had to double-prove it for you.




Real0ne -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 8:56:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

1- From USA Today:

Most of what the film alleges is refuted by the evidence at hand. Anything not answered definitively by the government is interpreted by the film as proof of a coverup.

2-  9/11: Debunking the Myths

From Popular Mechanics

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html?page=1&c=y

3 - Link to ScrewLooseChange, a set of 3 MySpace videos (scroll down to the left where it says "movies"):

http://www.myspace.com/screwloosechange

Even Maddox, at Thebestpageintheuniverse site thinks Loose Change is hooey:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons


Its sort of interesting that these debunking sites failed to mention that upon swabbing a sample of the wtc steel they found a thermate residue.

These kids on loose change sort of go off the deep end on occasions dont they?  i prefer the testimonies and analysis that experts in thier respective fields have to talk about, such as underwriters labs, physicists, and the other 298 scholars that joined together to analyse this, rather than a couple college kids overly exaggerating the situation in their attempts to make a point.

Like i initially said a lot of new information has surfaced and has been analysed including the conversations of the fire department while in the building before it came down that until fairly recently has been kept under wraps,

Oh yeh here is a link:
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/06/341238.shtml





sissifytoserve -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 9:08:19 AM)

http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/




sissifytoserve -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 9:10:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paradoxy

The 9/11 Report is my proof...I didn't realize I had to double-prove it for you.


If you are talking about the 9-11 Keen commissions findings...they are a complete fraud.


Senior Military, Intelligence, and Government
Critics of 9/11 Commission Report


http://patriotsquestion911.com/

9/11 commision chairmen admit to whitewash

http://www.antiwar.com/eland/?articleid=9502

9-11 widows question validity of 9-11 commission report

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Group_of_widows_claim_911_Independent_0804.html

9-11 commission report is a lie.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/270284_connellyrebut16.html?source=mypi




Paradoxy -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 9:23:23 AM)

Ok this is going no where.  Thanks for helping me boost my post numbers




Rule -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 9:24:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
1- From USA Today:


Does that make it true?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
Most of what the film alleges is refuted by the evidence at hand.

Most of? It requires only one fact that is not refuted to prove that those objects that smashed into the towers did not collapse them. There are plenty of such facts.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
Anything not answered definitively by the government is interpreted by the film as proof of a coverup.

Quite.

 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
Among the assertions in Loose Change is that a missile hit the Pentagon even though eyewitnesses saw the jet, numerous pieces of wreckage were found including the flight recorder, and those on the flight and in its path at the Pentagon are dead.

Eyewitnesses? Truly?
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
and those on the flight and in its path at the Pentagon are dead.

Those on the flight? Who? There is no credible evidence at all that anybody was aboard those four flying objects.

 
Duh. Of course some people did die at the Pentagon - and at the WTC-towers as well. That was intended.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
There is also the claim that because jet fuel burns at up to 1,500 degrees and steel melts at 2,750 degrees, the World Trade Center's infrastructure could not have been brought down by the airliners. However, as reported by the Journal of the Minerals, Metals and Materials Society, steel loses 50% of its strength at 1,200 degrees, enough for a failure.

This is not an argument that credibly explains the collapse of the towers nor of WTC7.
 
Metals are excellent conductors of heat. Most of the heat was generated in the first few moments upon impact. After those first few moments the steel would have cooled down. So why did not those towers collapse immediately upon impact, when the steel supposedly was most weakened? There is no evidence at all that the fire heated the steel. There is evidence that the steel was damaged by thermate explosives.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
"The only thing they (the filmmakers) seem to have gotten right about the Sept. 11 attacks is the date when they occurred," says Debra Burlingame, whose brother was the pilot of American Flight 77 that crashed into the Pentagon.
 
"They aren't truth-tellers looking to save the world," she says. "They're con artists hoping to sucker conspiracy-theory paranoids or anti-government malcontents into shelling out their hard-earned dollars."

Did not the relatives of those alleged airplane passengers receive a substantial amount of money? Who then are the con artists here? Is it wise to in blind faith accept the words of the sister of someone whose alleged presence on one of the unmanned flying objects cannot be proven?




sissifytoserve -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 9:24:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


Its sort of interesting that these debunking sites failed to mention that upon swabbing a sample of the wtc steel they found a thermate residue.





Most Americans will jump through hoops and bend over backwards to avoid the awful truth that their government had something to do with the destruction of the WTC and pentagon.

Even when the proof is there and obvious.




Level -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 9:30:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


Its sort of interesting that these debunking sites failed to mention that upon swabbing a sample of the wtc steel they found a thermate residue.





Most Americans will jump through hoops and bend over backwards to avoid the awful truth that their government had something to do with the destruction of the WTC and pentagon.

Even when the proof is there and obvious.


Most theorists will jump through hoops and bend over backwards to avoid the awful truth that their government did not have something to do with the destruction of the WTC and Pentagon.
 
Even when the proof is there and obvious.




Paradoxy -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 9:31:07 AM)

Yeah, obviously they did little-to-nothing in order to stop it.




popeye1250 -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 9:34:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paradoxy

Anything I ever tell my buddies who talk about Freemasons, Moon-landings, JFK, etc...

There is no conspiracy.

Conspiracies' survival require one thing.  People have to keep their mouths shut. 

Ask yourself something:
"At what point have I told something to someone something or someone else told me something and it didn't eventually come out?"

The correct answer should be "never".  Humans are completely unable to do this task.  Massive or even small conspiracies require that everyone involved be able to keep a secret.  Truth be told, most mafias in American History are always exposed by one of the top administrators of the crimes being committed.  Of course, this is dependant on plea bargaining, but the point remains the same.


Paradoxy, correct.
There's an old Mob saying; "Three guys can keep a secret if two of them are dead."
James "Whitey" Bulger a former Boston Crime Boss and now on the F.B.I.'s "Most Wanted" list knew that lesson very well.
I laugh at people who say the govt.'s "watching me."
Wrong, I'm watching them!




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