RE: Cross-dressing and Acceptance

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RE: Cross-dressing and Acceptance - 11/1/2006 11:54:22 AM

demistress

Posts: 391
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Dela-where?
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I would find this a particularly bothersome situation.

I am Bi, but I like a person to be what they are, I like men as men, and women as women. I prefer nude partners to clothes or lingerie. At which point, it's obvious what gender my partner is.

Secondly, I don't particularly like oral in any case, and I do like 'regular' sex very much. If one of my male partners was suddenly unwilling to be with me as a man, I don't know how I would deal with that. Then again I'm poly and can find that with another partner....

Tough position Lotus.

_____________________________

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Wether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right!

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 21

RE: Cross-dressing and Acceptance - 11/1/2006 12:02:34 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Lady Ellen, I never said that we should exclude anyone.
Even vanilla people who are curious about WIIWD are welcomed in here.
But there are certain activities that just aren't part of B&D.
What if someone came in here and wanted to talk about "scat" all the time and started numerous posts on it?
Wouldn't people in here politely direct them to sites for that?
I don't think "scat" has anything to do with B&D either but I'm sure there'll be some who disagree with that.
If they want to talk about B&D fine, but I REALLY don't want to hear all the things they do with "scat!" lol!
For all I know there are probably a lot of people out here who think picking their nose is a sexual act and maybe for them it is but does that activity have anything to do with B&D?
C.M. is a B&D oriented site after all.

All of the political threads here have nothing to do with B&D either yet not only do you never complain about them, you frequently participate in them so your complaint about non-B&D things being discussed here is nothing but flaming hypocrisy. You just don't want to read about things you don't like.

If you don't want to read about crossdressing (or scat, or whatever), perhaps you should consider avoiding threads that have that word in the subject, just like everyone else here seems to do without complaining. How hard is that?

~stef

Stef, all the political threads are under "Off -Topic Discussions".
It looks like they've moved this thread into "Off-Topic" as well.
And as far as "Flaming Hypocracy and not wanting to read about things I don't like", I often don't agree with people in here and their political views but I think it's important in a free society to have differing opinions. It'd be awful boring in here if we all agreed with each other, don't you think?
("Yup Crappy, you're right! Yes, Sinergy, you're right too! Yes Julia I agree 100%. Yes Popeye right again!")
I was simply pointing out that cross-dressing is a whole different activity than B&D and CM (is) a B&D site.
I would imagine that there are dozens of cross dressing sites on the 'net. I was not "complaining."
Stef, you're in Boston right? I'm from Woburn origionally.
Do you think that that POS Kennedy is going to be re-elected?

(in reply to stef)

Post #: 22

RE: Cross-dressing and Acceptance - 11/1/2006 12:11:08 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: demistress
At which point, it's obvious what gender my partner is.

It's obvious what sex they are, not gender.

Sex is a physical aspect of someone, gender is a social/mental/emotional one. You can be physically sexed as a male, but consider yourself a female in gender.

_____________________________

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(in reply to demistress)

Post #: 23

RE: Cross-dressing and Acceptance - 11/1/2006 12:18:19 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: demistress
At which point, it's obvious what gender my partner is.

It's obvious what sex they are, not gender.

Sex is a physical aspect of someone, gender is a social/mental/emotional one. You can be physically sexed as a male, but consider yourself a female in gender.

This is why I like L.A.
She's ALWAYS right!

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 24

RE: Cross-dressing and Acceptance - 11/1/2006 12:24:29 PM

demistress

Posts: 391
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Dela-where?
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: demistress
At which point, it's obvious what gender my partner is.

It's obvious what sex they are, not gender.

Sex is a physical aspect of someone, gender is a social/mental/emotional one. You can be physically sexed as a male, but consider yourself a female in gender.

Ok, At which point it's obvious what SEX they are. It does not change that part of what I find sexually attractive in a person who's sex is male is their penis, and generally, I find their desire to USE that penis attractive too. Just sayin'.

_____________________________

Mistress Heather
www.niteflirt.com/MizzSpice

Wether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right!

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 25

RE: Cross-dressing and Acceptance - 11/1/2006 1:00:48 PM

Lashra

Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
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Actually "Alternative Lifestyles Discussion Forums" as it states in the upper right hand corner of the screen covers more then just B&D. Yes B&D is a big part of CM, but it is not the only Lifestyle that is covered. Otherise it would say "Bondage and Discipline Lifestyle forum".

Personally I think Cross dressing, TG and other "alternative lifestyles" should probably have their own forum sections here at CM. I know alot of people do not think CD has anything to do with BDSM, perhaps it doesn't for some but in alot of cases it DOES. I know in my personal situation it does, it is a kink.

So are we to point a finger and say Hey those sexual deviants over there doing the cross dressing thing have no place here with us sexual deviants doing the B&D thing? I don't think so. I think all of us sexual deviants should be accepting of each other considering we are a small minority of the human population.

~Lashra

< Message edited by Lashra -- 11/1/2006 1:01:41 PM >

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 26

RE: Cross-dressing and Acceptance - 11/1/2006 1:32:44 PM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
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From: Stourport-England
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http://www.transgenderzone.com/tzoneforums.htm

For anyone interested, this is a specialist trans site with a set up rather like CM

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to Lashra)

Post #: 27

RE: Cross-dressing and Acceptance - 11/1/2006 4:45:12 PM

marieToo

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Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
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FR:

I'm so not down for men discovering their feminine side......not to the point of wearing panties and such. Its all good, it's just not good for me. I doubt I could live with it. In fact, I'm sure I couldn't.

_____________________________

marie.

I give good agita.

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 28

RE: Cross-dressing and Acceptance - 11/1/2006 4:57:24 PM

ZenrageTheKeeper

Posts: 237
Joined: 6/26/2005
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A man dressed as a woman is a social/cultural aesthetic. Ultimately, cloth is cloth and it shouldn't matter what a person's clothes are made of or what the cut of the fabric is.

Look at a man in a kilt standing next to a japanese schoolgirl.
Look at a picture of one of the founding fathers of the USA standing next to some woman in stockings and a wig.

Now think of Corporal Klinger standing next to RuPaul.

I think the major social difficulties come into play when a crossdresser begins to believe they truly are a member of the opposite gender and expect to be treated as such. Thats when it starts to go from physical appearance to psychologically awkward.

_____________________________

If Men never thought with their penises, all you girls would still have cooties.

(in reply to LotusSong)

Post #: 29

RE: Cross-dressing and Acceptance - 11/1/2006 5:06:05 PM

LadyEllen

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From: Stourport-England
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Isnt it strange though, how its not a problem for a woman to dress in men's clothing?
When she does that, its chic and sexy and sophisticated and whatever.
If a guy does the reverse, its disgusting, depraved, vile and whatever.

Female crossdressers are invisible, but they are out there. Why is it that male crossdressers attract such attitudes, when female crossdressers dont?

Now thats a social/cultural question....... (she says, sitting in jeans and t shirt)

W

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to ZenrageTheKeeper)

Post #: 30

RE: Cross-dressing and Acceptance - 11/1/2006 5:32:04 PM

LotusSong

Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Isnt it strange though, how its not a problem for a woman to dress in men's clothing?
When she does that, its chic and sexy and sophisticated and whatever.
If a guy does the reverse, its disgusting, depraved, vile and whatever.

Female crossdressers are invisible, but they are out there. Why is it that male crossdressers attract such attitudes, when female crossdressers dont?

Now thats a social/cultural question....... (she says, sitting in jeans and t shirt)

W

Dearest Ellen,

The difference is-is that while women may wear men's clothing, they are not asking to be called Sir nor add "packaging" in the front down under. They simply act as themselves, female. I am referring to the majority of us that wear jeans or t-shirts which actually are unisex these days. If the female wanting to dress as a man, and who expects to be addressed to as a man and make love to her het. husband as a man, although he has no proclivities to do so.. then the problem remains.

This is said with the understanding that transgenerism- for me, is a whole different subject. I don't know if I have ever heard of a het. woman donning a male persona to bed her het husband and he being expected to enjoy it..

The questions becomes- how far does one take their cross dressing before it jeopardizes the marriage? And do they have the right to expect the partner to change? Especially, in long standing unions.

< Message edited by LotusSong -- 11/1/2006 5:35:01 PM >

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 31

RE: Cross-dressing and Acceptance - 11/1/2006 6:34:45 PM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
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Hi LS

I agree with you there on the female crossdressing thing (if there is such a thing these days); the clothes dont matter in that instance do they? As long as she remains who she is, without portraying a different gender identity or sexuality, then really no one cares. She remains a woman, which is why she can wear top hat and tails and still be chic.

I also agree with you on the male crossdressing thing, but really its not seen as the same situation as with the female crossdresser, whether or not he remains a man or puts on some feminine persona etc.

I can only put down that double standard to two things;
1) women are just attractive whatever they wear, and/or
2) men are just unattractive as anything other than men! (and sometimes not even then!)

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to LotusSong)

Post #: 32

RE: Cross-dressing and Acceptance - 11/1/2006 6:48:18 PM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong
Dearest Ellen,

I don't know if I have ever heard of a het. woman donning a male persona to bed her het husband and he being expected to enjoy it..

The questions becomes- how far does one take their cross dressing before it jeopardizes the marriage? And do they have the right to expect the partner to change? Especially, in long standing unions.

Me neither - never heard of anything like that, and I know a couple of transmen who were wives and mothers before they transitioned. But I guess thats a little different to crossdressing as you described. Let me think back........ no I'm pretty sure that if my ex had suddenly started wearing suit and tie, cut her hair short and wore a beard, I'd have been out of there! This is why I cant hate her for the end of the marriage, and acknowledge and regret the hurt it caused her when I transitioned. I just know, that if the thing had been the other way around, I couldnt have dealt with it either, and thats why I think your friend must be some incredible woman to be dealing with it, even without the sex side of things.

My opinion from my experience is, that no one should be expected to accomodate a 24/7 gender change. OK, it might be until death us do part, and the trans person is still alive - but in a another, very real sense, they have died. Its not like any other life change I can think of (illness, injury etc) in respect of which it would be wrong to reject one's spouse. The person you married is gone and is now someone else.

As for occasional crossdressing, or even long term crossdressing as it appears your friend's husband is doing, its more difficult I think. In terms of grounds for divorce, it could be unreasonable behaviour, but thats a subjective notion at best. I suspect the degree of acceptability to a wife would be inversely proportionate to the amount of crossdressing and its proximity to her? It would maybe be unreasonable to divorce a man because he crossdresses every now and then and doesnt expect the wife to see it or be involved, but in your friend's case, with a permanent crossdresser chez elle, I would think it so close to the above gender transition situation that it would be entirely reasonable to divorce him. He's gone, and thats that, and she should not have to accomodate or adjust to that.

Just my opinions though
E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to LotusSong)

Post #: 33

RE: Cross-dressing and Acceptance - 11/1/2006 7:23:05 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Isnt it strange though, how its not a problem for a woman to dress in men's clothing?
When she does that, its chic and sexy and sophisticated and whatever.
If a guy does the reverse, its disgusting, depraved, vile and whatever.

Female crossdressers are invisible, but they are out there. Why is it that male crossdressers attract such attitudes, when female crossdressers dont?

Now thats a social/cultural question....... (she says, sitting in jeans and t shirt)

W

Lady Ellen, why? Go into "Browse Pictures" in the home page and click the menu to "Trans".
The pictures are hideous!
If some guys are into that fine, have fun but just because they are doesn't mean that other people want to look at them.
As a straight male it just gives me the creeps to see a guy wearing woman's clothes.
Again, this is a whole different "specialty" in "lifestyles."
And then you have the crossdressers who "play girl" online and misrepresent themselves to unsuspecting victims by putting up pictures of women on their profiles and waste people's time thinking that they're talking to a real woman to get their jollies.
I just don't consider them a part of B&D.
It's not "neccessary" for a man to wear women's clothing to be in the B&D scene.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 11/1/2006 7:27:21 PM >

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 34

RE: Cross-dressing and Acceptance - 11/1/2006 7:32:28 PM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Isnt it strange though, how its not a problem for a woman to dress in men's clothing?
When she does that, its chic and sexy and sophisticated and whatever.
If a guy does the reverse, its disgusting, depraved, vile and whatever.

Female crossdressers are invisible, but they are out there. Why is it that male crossdressers attract such attitudes, when female crossdressers dont?

Now thats a social/cultural question....... (she says, sitting in jeans and t shirt)

W

Lady Ellen, why? Go into "Browse Pictures" in the home page and click the menu to "Trans".
The pictures are hideous! And what about mine? I register as female here as it means I avoid a lot of crap from some pretty serious weirdos, but I'm trans.
If some guys are into that fine, have fun but just because they are doesn't mean that other people want to look at them. Absolutely. So, dont go looking?
As a straight male it just gives me the creeps to see a guy wearing woman's clothes. As a trans woman it has a similar effect on me in many cases. It may sound odd, but I really dont get the crossdressing thing, except on an intellectual/psychological level
Again, this is a whole different "specialty" in "lifestyles." Disagree - as long as they associate crossdressing and bdsm, its a your kink isnt mine thing IMO
And then you have the crossdressers who "play girl" online and misrepresent themselves to unsuspecting victims by putting up pictures of women on their profiles and waste people's time thinking that they're talking to a real woman to get their jollies. Yes - that is just plain stupid, I'll agree. Cannot imagine what they get out of it? its not even funny as a high school prank.

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 35

RE: Cross-dressing and Acceptance - 11/1/2006 8:17:34 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Isnt it strange though, how its not a problem for a woman to dress in men's clothing?
When she does that, its chic and sexy and sophisticated and whatever.
If a guy does the reverse, its disgusting, depraved, vile and whatever.

Female crossdressers are invisible, but they are out there. Why is it that male crossdressers attract such attitudes, when female crossdressers dont?

Now thats a social/cultural question....... (she says, sitting in jeans and t shirt)

W

Lady Ellen, why? Go into "Browse Pictures" in the home page and click the menu to "Trans".
The pictures are hideous! And what about mine? I register as female here as it means I avoid a lot of crap from some pretty serious weirdos, but I'm trans.
If some guys are into that fine, have fun but just because they are doesn't mean that other people want to look at them. Absolutely. So, dont go looking?
As a straight male it just gives me the creeps to see a guy wearing woman's clothes. As a trans woman it has a similar effect on me in many cases. It may sound odd, but I really dont get the crossdressing thing, except on an intellectual/psychological level
Again, this is a whole different "specialty" in "lifestyles." Disagree - as long as they associate crossdressing and bdsm, its a your kink isnt mine thing IMO
And then you have the crossdressers who "play girl" online and misrepresent themselves to unsuspecting victims by putting up pictures of women on their profiles and waste people's time thinking that they're talking to a real woman to get their jollies. Yes - that is just plain stupid, I'll agree. Cannot imagine what they get out of it? its not even funny as a high school prank.

Lady Ellen, unlike a lot of the others, your picture looks great, wanna fuck?

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 36

RE: Cross-dressing and Acceptance - 11/1/2006 8:25:16 PM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline

.........well, as offers go, its the best I've had this week (or month for that matter)! Thanks.

I do love a man who showers compliments and speaks his mind, Popeye, but I think you need to work on your chat up lines some more!

Your place or mine?

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 37

RE: Cross-dressing and Acceptance - 11/1/2006 9:30:57 PM

Mikal

Posts: 3673
Status: offline

*spits water onto screen* LOL... Popeye, Lady Ellen... you two are halarious. How 'bout a three-some??? *batts eyelashes* Pretty please?

Just out of curiosity, Popeye... you say that the pics of men who cross-dress are hideous & gives you the creeps... If you saw a pic of a hottie "woman", and found out she was a he, would you still get the creeps? Personally, I growl at them. Like I don't have enough to contend with with the rest of the ladies... now a guy looks better than I do. What nerve.

_____________________________

You know that I am a sexy penguin.

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 38

RE: Cross-dressing and Acceptance - 11/1/2006 9:45:11 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mikal

*spits water onto screen* LOL... Popeye, Lady Ellen... you two are halarious. How 'bout a three-some??? *batts eyelashes* Pretty please?

Just out of curiosity, Popeye... you say that the pics of men who cross-dress are hideous & gives you the creeps... If you saw a pic of a hottie "woman", and found out she was a he, would you still get the creeps? Personally, I growl at them. Like I don't have enough to contend with with the rest of the ladies... now a guy looks better than I do. What nerve.

Mikal, yes and not the kind of creeps because a guy is hitting on me but like seeing a picture of John Wayne Gacy in a clown suit creeps.
I don't have a problem with a woman wearing a man's clothes though. Sometimes that can be very sexy!
Sure I'll do a threesome with you!

(in reply to Mikal)

Post #: 39

RE: Cross-dressing and Acceptance - 11/2/2006 2:24:14 AM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mikal

*spits water onto screen* LOL... Popeye, Lady Ellen... you two are halarious. How 'bout a three-some??? *batts eyelashes* Pretty please?

Wow. This year just keeps getting better!

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to Mikal)

Post #: 40

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