Letter to a Christian Nation (Full Version)

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anthrosub -> Letter to a Christian Nation (11/1/2006 3:25:18 PM)

All I can say is...No matter what you believe or don't believe.  Read it.  For those who don't like to read or haven't the time, it's only 95 pages long.  It's clear, to the point, concise, and absolutely no B.S.
 
anthrosub



KenDckey -> RE: Letter to a Christian Nation (11/1/2006 3:31:10 PM)

OK  Read what?   How about posting a link please



Quivver -> RE: Letter to a Christian Nation (11/1/2006 3:34:02 PM)

LINK PLEASE!!!!!!



anthrosub -> RE: Letter to a Christian Nation (11/1/2006 3:35:36 PM)

Sorry, my error.  The subject title is the title of the book by Sam Harris.  There is no link, you have to go to the bookstore or online.  This is not a hype for the book.  Anyone who reads it will understand how stupid that would be.
 
anthrosub



KatyLied -> RE: Letter to a Christian Nation (11/1/2006 3:35:58 PM)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_to_a_Christian_Nation



Quivver -> RE: Letter to a Christian Nation (11/1/2006 3:42:16 PM)

Thank you my sister in Mud!!!



anthrosub -> RE: Letter to a Christian Nation (11/1/2006 3:43:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_to_a_Christian_Nation


That link is a good synopsis but I do hope people will not substitute it for reading what he has to say.  There is so much more information that's pertinent to the subject (especially Islam and how large a portion of the world population are currently Muslims...1.6 billion out of 6 billion).
 
anthrosub



meatcleaver -> RE: Letter to a Christian Nation (11/1/2006 3:56:47 PM)

The frightening statistic in the Wikipedia piece is that 53% of Americans are creationists, for a country with such a science pedigree that is alarming and one shivers at the prospect of that statistic being true. Old time religious zealots with 21st century technology really sends a shiver down ones spine.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Letter to a Christian Nation (11/1/2006 4:06:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

The frightening statistic in the Wikipedia piece is that 53% of Americans are creationists, for a country with such a science pedigree that is alarming and one shivers at the prospect of that statistic being true. Old time religious zealots with 21st century technology really sends a shiver down ones spine.


I'll just point out that one CAN be both a creationist and believe in evolution.  I know most people find that confusing and aren't both, but it is certainly possible.



Arpig -> RE: Letter to a Christian Nation (11/1/2006 4:12:14 PM)

from the synopsis on wikipedia, I would be inclined to say that he is on to something. I have had a similar view of the effects of religious dogma on the world for a long time (of course, since I can't write worth shit I never published it so I will not dispute his right to hold the rights to the idea [;)][;)][;)])



juliaoceania -> RE: Letter to a Christian Nation (11/1/2006 4:12:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

The frightening statistic in the Wikipedia piece is that 53% of Americans are creationists, for a country with such a science pedigree that is alarming and one shivers at the prospect of that statistic being true. Old time religious zealots with 21st century technology really sends a shiver down ones spine.


I'll just point out that one CAN be both a creationist and believe in evolution.  I know most people find that confusing and aren't both, but it is certainly possible.


I am living proof that one can believe in a creative omnipotent being(s) that created the universe, but still believe that the force of evolution is either a part of that or extraneous but real.. they are not contradictory. One is a belief to explain why evolution may exist, the other is based on science.

Thanks for pointing that out LA



philosophy -> RE: Letter to a Christian Nation (11/1/2006 4:15:21 PM)

"I'll just point out that one CAN be both a creationist and believe in evolution.  I know most people find that confusing and aren't both, but it is certainly possible"

....yup, it is possible....takes a certain amount of mental gymnastics and little bit of creativity on the whole bible-taken-literally front, but it is possible. Now, if we can just get the Pope to interpret the sin of onanism a little differently and let all Catholics wear condoms we'll be getting somewhere.......



KatyLied -> RE: Letter to a Christian Nation (11/1/2006 4:17:15 PM)

quote:

Thank you my sister in Mud!!!


[:)]



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Letter to a Christian Nation (11/1/2006 4:27:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy
....yup, it is possible....takes a certain amount of mental gymnastics and little bit of creativity on the whole bible-taken-literally front, but it is possible. Now, if we can just get the Pope to interpret the sin of onanism a little differently and let all Catholics wear condoms we'll be getting somewhere.......


I guess that's true if one is christian, but there are many other creation myths and beliefs out there other than the biblical one which don't really require much effort to gel with an evolution belief.  One thing evolution does not explain is how/why anything exists in order to evolve in the first place.



philosophy -> RE: Letter to a Christian Nation (11/1/2006 4:28:55 PM)

"One thing evolution does not explain is how/why anything exists in order to evolve in the first place."

....true, that would be another scientific field, ie cosmology. 




meatcleaver -> RE: Letter to a Christian Nation (11/1/2006 4:29:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I am living proof that one can believe in a creative omnipotent being(s) that created the universe, but still believe that the force of evolution is either a part of that or extraneous but real.. they are not contradictory. One is a belief to explain why evolution may exist, the other is based on science.

Thanks for pointing that out LA


'The distant god', I think such belief is called. I have never understood why an omnipotent god designed physical laws which amount to the need for such cruelty in order for life to exist when an omnipotent god could create life with infinite wisdom and infinite resources that there would not be any need for competition of species. But I have never doubted that if god exists, he is a cruel, malicious, vindictive joker, which is why I prefer not to believe in such a god.



LadyEllen -> RE: Letter to a Christian Nation (11/1/2006 4:40:58 PM)

MC - that depends on whether one believes in the Biblical God, I'd say?

My God is all knowing and all powerful, and this cosmos is his way of putting right a former chaos. The chaos has though already been solved, due to his all knowing and all powerful nature, and we suffer in this world in this life, because the chaos is still within us. It is only after we purge the chaos ourselves by personal effort in one life, or a progression of lives, that we gradually move into lives closer to the end of the cosmos, eventually resuming that state which is naturally ours. Of course on the converse side, the more we allow the chaos within us to grow, the further back towards the start of the cosmos we are reborn. Its not a morality thing either; its a path of resuming the natural state by assisting God in achieving the end which he already achieved.

Now thats mental gymnastics, but hey it works for me

E



ZenrageTheKeeper -> RE: Letter to a Christian Nation (11/1/2006 5:11:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

The frightening statistic in the Wikipedia piece is that 53% of Americans are creationists.


That's absolute horseshit. First of all, anyone can edit Wikipedia. Secondly, Creationists poll a little differently than most realistic people do.

To most Creationist organizations, because 85% of Americans classify themselves as someone who believes in God then therefore, that must mean 85% of Americans are, by default, Creationists.

Otherwise, they take these "independent polls" outside churches in rural areas where Creationism is still taken seriously.



anthrosub -> RE: Letter to a Christian Nation (11/1/2006 6:02:55 PM)

I hope and look forward to some of you reading the book...and then start posting your take on your currently held faith, ideas, and beliefs.  The wiki is not even the tip of the iceberg.  Right now you're not speaking from the experience of having read it, so nothing is really different if you get my meaning.
 
Thanks,
 
anthrosub



fergus -> RE: Letter to a Christian Nation (11/1/2006 6:07:22 PM)

These days, in our overly secular society, we have tried to use science as a replacement for faith.

Faith and science are both equally important ... but operate in two seprate realms.  One feeds the head life, the other the heart life.  They don't even speak the same language.  Science operates in the world of "is" and "is not" with quantifiable data.  Faith operates in a different realm and it would be folly to try to prove OR disprove mythology - because it does not catagorize in that fashion.

So, because we are 'scientifically' minded, we must prove or disprove everything - including the nature of God.  MY God is true, and here is why (blah blah blah) and therefore someone ELSE'S God(s) are false.  With faith, you can have both at once.  You never need to prove one way right and another wrong, becasue you don't need that sort of external validation.  It is between you and your deity(s).

Now, I don't know how many creationsists there are or not ... but even many that are NOT creationists still try to reduce faith into a set of facts to be proven true or disproven as false, rather than bask in the wonder of its purpose - that is to help us understand and connect with the human experience.

fergus



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