RE: Timing of the Saddam Death Sentence

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RE: Timing of the Saddam Death Sentence - 11/5/2006 3:12:10 PM

juliaoceania

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quote:

Snow said some even funnier stuff, claiming that anyone who thought the timing of this had anything to do with the election was the sort of conspiracy theorist who wears tin foil helmets.

Of course, the republicans were saying the recent news about republican congressman Mark Foley's gay pedophile scandal was politically timed; I can't recall if Tony Snow was included in those who said that, but maybe he was wearing his tin foil helmet at the time.

How does this work, those who surprise last have the biggest surprise?...lol.. not in this case

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RE: Timing of the Saddam Death Sentence - 11/5/2006 3:33:49 PM

saskslave

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This is even more bad news for the Democrats. First Michael J. Fox riled up voters by calling for govt funding for experiments on human life. Then John Kerry denigrated the intelligence of the troops. Then the job report came out on Friday (4.4% unemployment) and Nancy Pelosi called it the worst economy since the Depression--leading many, again, to see the over-the-top rhetoric common of the leading Dems.

And now Saddam is going to be hung for crimes against humanity.
Saddam: the mass-murdering dictator that the Democrats took to the streets to support. Democrats lied when they said that Saddam had no WMD; Dems lied when they said that Saddam was not trying to build an atom bomb; Dems lied when they said that Saddam did not support international terrorism, and Dems lied when they said that Iraq was not a terrorist haven.

I've gotta feeling that Tuesday's election is going to be much closer...

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RE: Timing of the Saddam Death Sentence - 11/5/2006 3:39:09 PM

missturbation

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As you all know i claim to know nothing of politics but i am surprised that the only question to come up on this topic is the politics of it being a surprise or not. Surely we shoudl be considering what effect the decision to hang / not hang saddam will have? It was said on the news tonight here in the UK that if he hangs his followers will cause uproar and if he is not his opposers will cause uproar. Surely the most important thing in all this is what effect it will play in Iraq?

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RE: Timing of the Saddam Death Sentence - 11/5/2006 3:43:45 PM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

As you all know i claim to know nothing of politics but i am surprised that the only question to come up on this topic is the politics of it being a surprise or not. Surely we shoudl be considering what effect the decision to hang / not hang saddam will have? It was said on the news tonight here in the UK that if he hangs his followers will cause uproar and if he is not his opposers will cause uproar. Surely the most important thing in all this is what effect it will play in Iraq?

Absolutely that is a much larger fish to fry, but the other threads that people were just drooling over his hanging corpse made me sick to, so I started a new one...

What happens here Tuseday could have a huge impact on Iraq too.

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RE: Timing of the Saddam Death Sentence - 11/5/2006 3:45:06 PM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: saskslave

I've gotta feeling that Tuesday's election is going to be much closer...

We shall see, preorder that beer you will need to cry in, it is going to be another long 40 years

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RE: Timing of the Saddam Death Sentence - 11/5/2006 3:46:50 PM

SubNY278

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It's incredible how blinded by patriotic rhetoric you are.

First, if anything, there was an outcry against conservative blowhards like Rush Limbaugh coming out and accusing Fox of "faking" his own disease. Lest we forget Rush's own issues with drugs and medication. But I guess that's ok, because he supports Bush and is thus a good American.

Second, I don't think Kerry changed anyone's minds about the war or whether or not to vote for a Democratic candidate. It seems that on an issue as polarized as Iraq, people at this point pretty much have their minds made up already. I think it's telling that support for the Iraq invasion is dropping each and every month, and last month was the deadliest month for American troops in close to two years. We may support our troops in that we don't want them to get hurt or killed or to be in harm's way, but that doesn't equate to supporting an illegal, unjustified invasion.

3. It amazes me that conservatives forget that the "mass murdering dictator" was a good "friend" of America under Reagan. In fact, Rumsfeld even travelled to Baghdad personally to meet with him, and we sold him plenty of weapons to fight our other "enemies" in Iran. I guess an enemy of an enemy is a friend, but only when it's convenient for us. Those weapons he killed Kurds with? Made in America.

Also, please provide us evidence for your statements below:
"Democrats lied when they said that Saddam had no WMD; Dems lied when they said that Saddam was not trying to build an atom bomb; Dems lied when they said that Saddam did not support international terrorism, and Dems lied when they said that Iraq was not a terrorist haven."

a) Where's the WMDs? Close to four years in Iraq now and they still haven't been found. And I don't think anyone is expecting to find them anymore, because he didn't have any!
b) Show us evidence as to Saddam trying to build an atom bomb. The uranium from Niger story was refuted years ago. But it seems you're still stuck in the past, so I'll give you a pass on it. Or, actually not, because people like you who are so brainwashed and uneducated scare me.
c) No, Saddam did not support international terrorism. Show us an example of him working with a group like Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda were actually *enemies* of Saddam, because Saddam did not impose an Islamic theocracy in Iraq. Doesn't make Saddam an angel, but doesn't make him a terrorist sympathizer either. Iraq was a secular nation under his rule, for better or for worse. I don't know if that's going to end up being the case now that America got involved...
d) No, Dems did not lie and Iraq was not a terrorist haven. Iraq is *now* a terrorist haven. Care to guess why? Because now, terrorists have a cause to rally around, and that's our invasion of a sovereign Muslim nation.

I suggest you start following the news from an outlet other than Fox News, perhaps it might help you expand your horizons a bit. If you need any help understanding any of this, just let me know and I'll explain it again to you nice and slow so you can get it.

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RE: Timing of the Saddam Death Sentence - 11/5/2006 3:48:10 PM

missturbation

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What happens here Tuseday could have a huge impact on Iraq too.
From what i understand from watching the news for the first time in god knows how long it may have an effect on the date US and UK troops may be pulled out of Iraq. Is that what you are referring to and if not can you explain what the effects may be. I am genuinely curious about this one but really do not understand politics.

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RE: Timing of the Saddam Death Sentence - 11/5/2006 3:49:14 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

As you all know i claim to know nothing of politics but i am surprised that the only question to come up on this topic is the politics of it being a surprise or not. Surely we shoudl be considering what effect the decision to hang / not hang saddam will have? It was said on the news tonight here in the UK that if he hangs his followers will cause uproar and if he is not his opposers will cause uproar. Surely the most important thing in all this is what effect it will play in Iraq?

I agree with you, missturbation, but I am not sure anybody will be able to tell the difference after it is done / not done from the current uproar in Iraq.

I imagine that the Neocons will insist that the uproar is all the fault of Saddam's supporters, and try to pretend that the last umpteen years never actually happened.

Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy

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RE: Timing of the Saddam Death Sentence - 11/5/2006 3:55:59 PM

missturbation

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I imagine that the Neocons will insist that the uproar is all the fault of Saddam's supporters, and try to pretend that the last umpteen years never actually happened.

Apologies but i do not know what a neocon is although i do get what you are saying.

Maybe you could help me out with something else that was said in the news report please? It was mentioned theat Blair / Bush had gone after saddam in the first place due to him having weapons of mass destruction and it turned out he didnt. Now i know he is still responsible for thousands and thousands of death but is it not a little worrying that blair / bush got the weapons issue so wrong?

Oh and apologies to julia for kind of hijacking this thread a little

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RE: Timing of the Saddam Death Sentence - 11/5/2006 3:59:09 PM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

From what i understand from watching the news for the first time in god knows how long it may have an effect on the date US and UK troops may be pulled out of Iraq. Is that what you are referring to and if not can you explain what the effects may be. I am genuinely curious about this one but really do not understand politics.

The American people want our troops home, are beginning to state in opinion poll after opinion poll that Iraq is their only issue.. I believe that a democratic congress would be more friendly to the idea of pulling our troops out of Iraq instead of keeping them there permanently as is being planned under the current administration. The Iraqi's know we have designs on their oil, they want us out.

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RE: Timing of the Saddam Death Sentence - 11/5/2006 4:13:42 PM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

From what i understand from watching the news for the first time in god knows how long it may have an effect on the date US and UK troops may be pulled out of Iraq. Is that what you are referring to and if not can you explain what the effects may be. I am genuinely curious about this one but really do not understand politics.

The American people want our troops home, are beginning to state in opinion poll after opinion poll that Iraq is their only issue.. I believe that a democratic congress would be more friendly to the idea of pulling our troops out of Iraq instead of keeping them there permanently as is being planned under the current administration. The Iraqi's know we have designs on their oil, they want us out.

Julia, it's not the "only" issue but it is the number one issue as of right now!
I want my Troops out of Iraq as well and have them on the Mexican border where they're actually needed.
Our enemy is al qeada and if we know that they're in Pakistan we should start bombing the living hell out of Western Pakistan and Eastern Afganistan and go in and get those bastards!
It didn't make a lot of sense to go looking for al qeada in Iraq.

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RE: Timing of the Saddam Death Sentence - 11/5/2006 4:19:11 PM

missturbation

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I want my Troops out of Iraq as well
Since when were they 'the peoples' troops?
Our enemy is al qeada and if we know that they're in Pakistan we should start bombing the living hell out of Western Pakistan and Eastern Afganistan and go in and get those bastards!
what about all the innocent people who get caught in the crossfire?

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RE: Timing of the Saddam Death Sentence - 11/5/2006 4:28:27 PM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Our enemy is al qeada and if we know that they're in Pakistan we should start bombing the living hell out of Western Pakistan and Eastern Afganistan and go in and get those bastards!
It didn't make a lot of sense to go looking for al qeada in Iraq.

If killing the enemy is so so easy, how come the troops can't deal with the insurgents in Iraq where there are significan troop numbers. Talking about bombing yet another country to kill an enemy they can't kill a block away if arrant nonsense.

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RE: Timing of the Saddam Death Sentence - 11/5/2006 4:29:57 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

I imagine that the Neocons will insist that the uproar is all the fault of Saddam's supporters, and try to pretend that the last umpteen years never actually happened.

quote:

Apologies but i do not know what a neocon is although i do get what you are saying.

Neo-conservative is the current term used to describe Monkeyboy and his ilk, including Rumsfeld, Cheney, Perle, Wolfowitz, etc. Neocon is shortand for the term. It is basically a set of Republican's who set out to reshape the world into an image they have, harkening back to Reagan's supply-side economics, controlling the world's oil supply, with the United States operating a global empire, etc.

Maybe you could help me out with something else that was said in the news report please? It was mentioned theat Blair / Bush had gone after saddam in the first place due to him having weapons of mass destruction and it turned out he didnt. Now i know he is still responsible for thousands and thousands of death but is it not a little worrying that blair / bush got the weapons issue so wrong?

Oh and apologies to julia for kind of hijacking this thread a little

Bush and his cronies fabricated and cherry-picked evidence to provide to Congress and the UN to try to gain support for his plan to invade Iraq.

The weapons of mass destruction included poison gas sold to him by Reagan and Bush Sr., alleged nuclear weapons from an alleged yellowcake sale (the evidence of this sale was discredited by the CIA) in Niger, purified using aluminum tubes (which were not designed or fabricated in such a way that they would work in a centrifuge), and then made into nuclear weapons.

Most of this information was from a single source interviewed by the CIA in Thailand (if I remember right) on a lie detector. The CIA analyst determined the informant was lying.

The UN thought the evidence presented was dodgy and did not vote to support the invasion, apart from the Coalition Of The Willing.

The US Congress was so demoralized and shocked by 9/11 that they supported Bush et al.

Hope this helps.

Sinergy

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RE: Timing of the Saddam Death Sentence - 11/5/2006 4:37:56 PM

missturbation

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Thank you - i really should make a better attempt to keep up with these issues so i can understand when something like this interests me.
I appreciate your time explaining to me.

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RE: Timing of the Saddam Death Sentence - 11/5/2006 4:48:35 PM

WyrdRich

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Apologies but i do not know what a neocon is although i do get what you are saying.

Neocon is shorthand for neo-conservative and has become a term used by the liberals/left/democrats to villify and demonize anyone they can attach the label too. Funny how that works....

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RE: Timing of the Saddam Death Sentence - 11/5/2006 4:52:10 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Thank you - i really should make a better attempt to keep up with these issues so i can understand when something like this interests me.
I appreciate your time explaining to me.

I have three books I am currently reading. The most fascinating one is "American Theocracy," which is about the rise of the millenialist Religious Right in this country and their takeover of the Republican Party. The second, which is by far the most amusing, is "Fortunate Son" which is about the rise of Monkeyboy to being the President. The third is called "Cobra II" which is about the run up to the invasion of Iraq, this one and "American Theocracy" are tied for most frightening.

You are very welcome, missturbation.

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RE: Timing of the Saddam Death Sentence - 11/5/2006 4:54:29 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Apologies but i do not know what a neocon is although i do get what you are saying.

Neocon is shorthand for neo-conservative and has become a term used by the liberals/left/democrats to villify and demonize anyone they can attach the label too. Funny how that works....

Exactly, WyrdRich, Thank you for pointing out that rightists/conservatives would never villify or demonize other peo...

Move along, nothing to see here.

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RE: Timing of the Saddam Death Sentence - 11/5/2006 4:56:34 PM

missturbation

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Omg my daughter who is 14 would like to know if the rumour of george bush going into iraq to gain control of the countries oil industry could be at all true?
Even my daughter puts my knowledge of politics to shame

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RE: Timing of the Saddam Death Sentence - 11/5/2006 5:02:55 PM

saskslave

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quote:

First, if anything, there was an outcry against conservative blowhards like Rush Limbaugh coming out and accusing Fox of "faking" his own disease. Lest we forget Rush's own issues with drugs and medication. But I guess that's ok, because he supports Bush and is thus a good American.

I disagree. I don't think that people are going to run out and vote Democrat because of Michael J. Fox. However, there will be a segment of voters who will vote Republican because of this.

The fact is that Michael J. Fox has admitted in the past that he has not taken his medication before interviews to make his symptoms look worse. But you call Limbaugh a "conservative blowhard" for accurately pointing this out.
Let's just say that Limbaugh "botched a joke."

quote:

a) Where's the WMDs? Close to four years in Iraq now and they still haven't been found. And I don't think anyone is expecting to find them anymore, because he didn't have any!

Good grief. Are you really unaware about the declassified portions of the National Ground Intelligence Center report? They have found at least 500 WMD.
http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/Iraq_WMD_Declassified.pdf

quote:

b) Show us evidence as to Saddam trying to build an atom bomb. The uranium from Niger story was refuted years ago. But it seems you're still stuck in the past, so I'll give you a pass on it. Or, actually not, because people like you who are so brainwashed and uneducated scare me.

Good God man, it was on the front page of the NY Times the other day. It was their October Surprise on the Bush Administration...look how stupid the Bush admin is for posting Saddam's nuclear secrets on the internet (they were promptly taken off the govt website)...

"Among the dozens of documents in English were Iraqi reports written in the 1990s and in 2002 for United Nations inspectors in charge of making sure Iraq had abandoned its unconventional arms programs after the Persian Gulf war. Experts say that at the time, Mr. Hussein’s scientists were on the verge of building an atom bomb, as little as a year away."
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/03/world/middleeast/03documents.html?em&ex=1162702800&en=1123f11868faad44&ei=5087%0A

This article is in your hometown paper dated Nov 3, 2006, and you call me "uneducated and brainwashed" for saying that Saddam was 1 year away from building an atom bomb.

Are you a parody or for real?

quote:

c) No, Saddam did not support international terrorism.

"President Saddam Hussein has recently told the head of the Palestinian political office, Faroq al-Kaddoumi, his decision to raise the sum granted to each family of the martyrs of the Palestinian uprising to $25,000 instead of $10,000,” --Iraqi deputy prime minister Tariq Aziz, as reported by Reuters on March 11, 2002.

I've seen pics of the checks on the internet!

Where did an injured Al Zarqawi flee when Afghanistan was liberated? To Iraq where he was treated in a hospital owned by Uday Hussein.

Where did Abdul Rahman Yasin (wanted by FBI for the bombing of the World Trade Center attack in 1993) flee? Who gave Yasin free housing and put him on a govt salary? Then there's Abu Nidal and Abu Abbas, two notorious terrorists who sought and got safe haven in Saddam's Iraq.

I'm constantly amazed when Democrats claim that the US armed Iraq--and show the pic of Rummy shaking hands with Saddam (but they ignore the pic of Madeleine Albright shaking hands with Kim Jong Il when Clinton gave him nuclear materials). To an extent, the US did arm Iraq. SIPRI (a Swedish Peace Research group) has a report that says that the US did arm Iraq--to the tune of 1% of its arms. Russia was at 57%, France at 13%, and China at 12%--82% of Iraq's arms came from these 3 countries who had veto power on the UN's Security Council; all owed billions by Saddam.

< Message edited by saskslave -- 11/5/2006 5:22:57 PM >

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